Re: my hairline is getting crazy!

[hopeful]

Can anyone please explain how papain could possible work for hair loss.

Thank You

[CausticSymmetry]

hopeful - Papain is an enzyme from Papaya and much like Bromelain from Pineapples it can inhibit TGF-beta and inhibiting collagen degrading enzymes.

[Socceroo]

David Bowie type of hair, lol I love it.

socceroo, did you play everquest 1 on Rallos zek server a long time ago?

I'm not sure what that is so I'll say no

[hopeful]

hopeful - Papain is an enzyme from Papaya and much like Bromelain from Pineapples it can inhibit TGF-beta and inhibiting collagen degrading enzymes.

CS, in your opinion is that enough to stop hair loss and contribute to hair growth

[vade retro alopecia]

I would be careful when using papaya seed extracts internally, particularly if you are at the stage in your life when you plan to start a family. A quick web search links to some studies relating papaya seeds with infertility. For example, taken from: http://www.imccoalition.org/newsletter/2008_May_public.htm

From folk remedy to contraceptive product formulation: Papaya seed extract

Though a growing portion of worldwide contraceptive research is being done in China and India, it can be difficult to get information on those studies, particularly if the results are published in a non-English journal. This month we begin a series on male contraceptive leads beyond the US borders, beginning with Carica papaya extracts, under study by Prof. N.K. Lohiya of Jaipur, India. (We have edited his responses to simplify or explain technical terms.)

Originally native to Latin America, the papaya is now cultivated in most countries with tropical climates. The fruit is widely used for food. The plant produces a latex sap rich in the enzyme papain, a protease that tenderiz es meat and other proteins. Both the green fruit and the sap have multiple additional medicinal uses, including folk remedies for contraception and induced abortion. Medical research in adult male langur monkeys has confirmed the contraceptive capabilities of papaya.

Q: How does it work as a male contraceptive?

Prof. Lohiya: The seeds of ripe papaya have been investigated for the control of male fertility in rats, rabbits and langur monkeys. The extracts, when given by mouth, at different doses, cause infertility in animals by either stopping the sperms' motility (ability to swim) or stopping sperm production in the testis. The contraceptive effects are reversible following withdrawal of the treatment, and the animals did not show toxic symptoms.
Q: What is the next step in this research?

Prof. Lohiya: We have established the contraceptive potential of the seed products of Carica papaya in all three animal models tested. Safety of the [drug] has also been investigated by tests of short-term and long-term use in animals, and carcinogenicity tests (tests to make sure it does not cause cancer). Developmental toxicity and teratogenic potential of the drug are in progress. [These studies will assure safety in future generations.] However, in plant research, identification of the active ingredient of the test material is essential for mass production and for reproducibility of the results. Our current research is focused on identifying the active [chemical compounds].
Q: What is your biggest hurdle or concern?

Prof. Lohiya: One of the major hurdles in plant research is the reproducibility of the results. What seems to be the same plant that has shown to be effective in folk remedies and centuries of practice, may not be effective in animal models. In many cases, the results vary from no activity to 100% activity with the same plant. Proper recording of time and place of collection, proper authentification of plants, uniform procedures for extraction, and other studies may help in identifying the plant products with fertility regulation properties [the active ingredient].
Q: What other contraceptive research areas are you working on?

Prof. Lohiya: We successfully showed azoospermia [no sperm] and then reversal to normal functional sperm in RISUG-injected langur monkeys. An exploratory feasibility trial of a male spacing method in langur monkeys by repeated vas occlusion and non-invasive reversal has also been successfully demonstrated by us for the first time in male contraceptive research. The procedure may offer the feasibility of total non-invasive reversible vas occlusion by no scalpel injection and non-invasive reversal. We're awaiting clearance from the relevant drug regulatory agencies to try this reversal procedure in humans. We are also currently investigating safety in two generations of animals following RISUG reversal with DMSO or sodium bicarbonate (a baking soda solution).
Q: What would most help your contraceptive research move forward?

Prof. Lohiya: Technical, infrastructural, and financial inputs would help us to characterize the seed products and would facilitate our efforts towards developing a contraceptive pill of plant origin.

[CausticSymmetry]

hopeful - Unfortunately, I have no idea--but in theory it could work and Prague reports some promise. The only thing I could add is that unripe papaya contains significantly more papain than ripened sources.

[Prague]

thank you for your pm's guys, but I can't answer them because of following reasons:

1) I do not have the answers (the proportions, how it works exactly etc, why is papin used in depilatory creams, if it can dissolve you hair, yous scalp) - the idea is that there's a build up around the follicules, some undigested protein that feeds the bacteria mayben clogs the vessels - my idea was to get rid of these build ups - internally (acv, green clay, enzymes, glutamine) and externally (since it's obvious that balding scalp is tighter, harder) - i took papain and hyaluronic acid that should dissolve the proteins, croos linked collagan and make the scalp rejunevate and more elastic, plus the hyaluronic acid was reported as a dht blocker itself

i thinks theres a strong connection with enzymes as a remedy and gluten (casein maybe too) that gets to the blood, makes it thick, covers and brings undigested protein that gets stuck there, harms the colon wall, builds itself around the follicle (papain dissolves gluten and as CS brought it here, bromelain/papain is used to treat scleroderma - and i see there a huge corellation) i read a good study that shows the mechanism but i forgot it - which gets me to my second reason:


the other reason is that since i was batling hairloss for years and sacrified to this battle at long hours every day - which is very demanding - as the big regrowth came I dropped everything out of my head, hair is not an issue for me anymore, which is very deliberationg feeling and i can fully concentrate on other things

i dropped many supplements (i was taking more than 20 at one time), have an almost perfect diet (lots of raw, low carb, gluten, casein, sugar free, antiestrogenic foods, grass fed meat, red wine) which might be enough to keep my hair

I will still come to this forum since it's been a great inspiration - but i cant answer the questions since i do not have the answers

[Whip]

I'm confused, did Prague stop his hairloss by diet and by using a papain and hyaluronic acid combo? Papain has estrogenic effects...

Sounds like it seems his results are significant, but that there's no protocol or regimen which anyone else has tried out. I have about the papain threads before but think that it's either topical estrogen from papain or isolated cases.

Thanks

[Gibson]

Thanks for mentioning that about papain, Whip. I have an iherb order coming this Monday, and one of the things I ordered was papain powder to experiment with. That said, I really have no interest in experimenting with anything estrogenic. I just trialed a bunch of estrogenic topicals--I'm am well aware of their potential--and the extra estrogen is finally out of my system. Strong like Bull lol.

One thing that's odd is that Praugue is Bullish on being anti-estrogen, so it would seem odd that he would embrace something that goes against that.

[jdp710]

if MPB is viral in nature ...

"Herpes virus infection and shingles. A scientifically controlled study conducted in Germany found that the application of papain creams to skin affected by herpes outbreaks produced pain relief equivalent to that of acyclovir (Zovirax), although the papain took longer than acyclovir to control redness. Overall, acyclovir and papain were judged equally effective in the treatment of shingles (herpes zoster). Although both treatments afforded similar pain relief, people treated with papain experienced fewer side effects."

http://www.herbs2000.com/h_menu/papain.htm

[Gibson]

a quick search didn't yield anything directly linking estrogen to papain. Whip, if you're certain of this, please share your source?

Thanks.

[jdp710]

more info = Extracts of the pulp of Papaya Fruit have showed bacteriostatic properties when tested against Staphylococcus aureua, Escherichia coli, Salmonella typhi, Bacillus subtilis and other bacteria in vitro.

[Whip]

Okay, I should clarify. That is papaya, and papaya seeds. It sounded like he was using papaya and black papaya seeds, which some estros do promote hair gains.

"Papaya
Papaya (like aniseed) is estrogenic, meaning it has compounds that act as the female hormone estrogen. It has been used as a folk remedy in promoting menstruation and milk production, facilitating childbirth and increasing the female libido."

So, if it's papain which is the enzyme that is different, then it might be okay, but it sounded like raw papaya and the seeds to me.

Gibson, I'm the same way and I have tremendous spikes if I get too close to it, even in a topical. Peppermint oil did that recently. So, if it's only papain and that's different, then it may be okay, but if you're sensitive you'll know fairly quickly.

I'm eating a raw garlic clove once a day and also taking an internal rosemary pill to combat the estro effects from previous topical experiments, diet, enviro, etc.

JDP, I agree with you there. The posts a while back about Brylcreem, got me thinking about BHT, and maybe that as a topical would help. It does appear to destroy the lipids coating. Maybe this would be effective against demodex too and then a strong anti-bacterial follow up afterwards if you believe in demodex. Or you could use BHT and then a zapper, but check out the side effects of BHT first. You could just put it in a carrier oil and apply it but I wouldn't recommend internal.

Maybe BHT and papain after? Or BHT and anything after, oregano, garlic.

[edony]

Whip-

What Prague does is dissolving some extra papain tablets in papaya seeds oil.That is to increase the papain content of the oil ,as he is unsure of its exact papain content.
Papain is the proteolytic enzyme of papaya fruit ,it 's not a different thing.

[Gibson]

I got my papain powder today. Essentially it is just green papaya dried at low temperature. That said, I did find info that points to papaya as being estrogenic, so I'm going to have to pass on it. Here's one site with info, scroll down:

http://healthydoses.wordpress.com/