Re: my hairline is getting crazy!

[jdp710]

CausticSymmetry,

I haven't started yet but I'm thinking at the end of the week.

I'm trying to have enough of a delay before starting the magnesium ascorbyl phosphate. That way, if I get regrowth, I'll be more certain that it was the magnesium ascorbyl phosphate.

[Crusher]

huli, any updates?

(Wow, breaking the 10. 000 view-mark and hundret posts written by Crusher. I'm really a lucky beggar. LOL).

[cpio]

I think Pragues success may not only be from the papain topical, but from avoiding processed foods and foods high in additives as well, since these could likely be a reason for the deposits in the scalp causing bacteria and inflammation. It would not be surprising if bacteria can feed of dht and other hormones in the scalp, giving an impression that it is the dht itself that causes a reaction. For some reason it does not happen to women very often, but they get deposit in the joint and ligaments, men get them in the scalp.

I wonder if dht has been shown to cause inflammation by itself when attached to a mpb hair-follicle in a bacteria-free testtube.

[JHarsh80]

cpio,

Do you notice any estrogen-like effects from consuming a lot of buckwheat? Research shows that in women with PCOS, di-chiro-inositol found in large amounts in buckwheat, lowered test 55%. I haven't seen any studies on men.

[cuebreeze]

Hey guy.... Havent been on for a while. Just wanted to drop in and say ive started the papaya mix with HA, emu and water. Tried once with a dermaroller (left on for hour) and once over night.

First one i lost a fare bit of weak hairs. Im at day 3 and my hair feels alot smoother. Also i think my scalp is starting to feel different. (more flexible maybe, or softer to touch the skin?).

Anyway ill get back

[redhead]

huli

any update from your side..i believe u r experimenting this mix for longest after prague.

[edony]

Guys be patient here...I'm sure huli will report back as soon he has sthing to report
Don't push it...

[cpio]

I dont think the papain on its own will regrow hair .. Stopping the inflow of
the toxic materials that cause deposits in the first place is probably equally or more important!

Question is what causes deposits? A wild guess: Food additives. In europe we have E numbers for every additive. Avoidoing any food with an E number listed as ingredient is a good start but it will take a long time to recover.

Sorry for speculating, but this is my current two cents.

[edony]

by "recover" ,you mean regrow or just halting of hair loss? I realy hope that hair could somehow regenerate.
By the way i don t believe in dead follicles just in dormant ones.Every once in a while some hair pop out randomly where my original hairline used to be that i thought of inexistant.Follicles are always there capable of produciing hair,we just have to figure out what switches them on.Whether that 'd be avoiding toxic foods or a topical growth stimulant ,that remains to be seen.But i think we're heading a good way...

[gbp2000]

I have great respect for OMG et al but I am getting tired of seeing comments to the effect of:

after 'x' windows, the follicle dies and will never grow back

This is not proven in any scientific form, as far as I am aware. Furthermore, for myself, whilst I have rubbish hair overall, I have high density vellus hair all over my head, even where hair was lost 10 - 12 years ago. If I neglect an area for 3 - 4 weeks, the vellus hair dissapears.

Two weeks of my topical garlic and aloe (3- 4 times a day) and the hairs return. My vellus hair is very visible in day light and must look quite odd.

The reason I say all of this is - I'm not special, I find it hard to imagine that I am the only person who breaks the pattern or is a genetic freak. Rather it seems more likely that the apocryphal tale of a 30 month window is wrong.

There has been nothing hard in regenerating a full head of vellus hair. With wounding it is possible to turn some of these into terminal, but I do not consider it a feasible solution.

I intend to experiment with Papain (once it arrives).

What my topical has suggested to me is that something continually acts to prevent hair growth of my vellus hairs. I intend to repeat my neglect on different areas and see how long it takes for the hair to go and the be regrown.

Should the time taken be consistently different relative to the distance to my current hairline , then I think I will have some very pertinent information to carry forward.

[cpio]

Jharsh, 55% that sounds like alot !

I have no eaten Buckwheat for while, and not in large enough quantities .. I did not experience anything bad while eating it. I´d choose it anytime over wheat.

cpio,

Do you notice any estrogen-like effects from consuming a lot of buckwheat? Research shows that in women with PCOS, di-chiro-inositol found in large amounts in buckwheat, lowered test 55%. I haven't seen any studies on men.

[edony]

gbp2000,

there's always the question whether your vellous hair is previously existing miniaturised hair or newly generated hair... IMO there is no such thing as 30 month window or dead follicles

[jdp710]

after 'x' windows, the follicle dies and will never grow back

This is not proven in any scientific form, as far as I am aware. Furthermore, for myself, whilst I have rubbish hair overall,

Irreversibility of hair follicle changes after 30 months of Androgenetic Alopecia.

Konstantinova N, Korotkii N.G, Sharova N, Barhunova E, Gaevski D. Nioxin Research Inc, Atlanta, USA Moscow Medical University

We studied horizontal and vertical biopsy from 15 caucasian 24-41 year old males diagnosed with bitemporal recession Androgenetic Alopecia (AA) for 1.5 –18 years (average 7.4 years). All 15 biopsies were stained with H&E, Van Gieson and with other collagen specific stainings. 1. Eleven pts with AA longer than 3 years had perifollicular fibrosis - collagen fibers were compact and formed a small scar-like formation around each anagen hair follicle(HF). Two patients - 33 year old with 18 month AA and 23 year old with 20 month AA did not have these hair follicle changes. Two 26-year-old patients with 30 and 36 month AA respectively were found to have some not so severe collagen fiber changes. 2. Infundibulum of HF dilatated 124-192 mm and most of them covered with keratinazed plug lacking normal hair shaft growth. 3. Decreased number of hair follicles 1.75-2,45 per sq. mm from 3.5-5 per sq. mm in control group. 4. None of anagen HF was situated in subcutaneous fat. We showed a correlation between length of the AA and severity/ thickness of perifollicular fibrosis. The result of this study is that any treatment of AA is recommended to start earlier than 30 months from first signs of AA. This should prevent irreversible collagen changes associated with “fibrotic incapsulation” of most anagen HF in involved areas, which usually leads to loss of normal blood supply, innervation, and subsequent miniaturization and prevention of hair from normal cycling.

http://www.qdbd.com/hair_formulas_4.htm



Interestingly, there is a correlation that I've found and it's the antibacterial/antifungal, etc. topicals are the ones that give the most regrowth. Bromelain is a good antibacterial so I have no doubt that it will regrow hair on it's own. Also, interestingly, very good antibacterials, etc. such as borax can give a massive shed IME.

Here's a study that CS has posted

Am J Clin Dermatol. 2006;7(4):263-6.
Increased hair shedding may be associated with the presence of Pityrosporum ovale.
Nematian J, Ravaghi M, Gholamrezanezhad A, Nematian E.

Department of Mycology, Faculty of Medicine, Azad University of Medical Sciences, Tehran, Iran.

BACKGROUND AND OBJECTIVE: Although the available data show that hair loss is an important cosmetic problem worldwide, the pathogenesis of common hair shedding is not fully understood. The aim of this study was to evaluate the association between hair shedding and cutaneous Malassezia infection. Malassezia fungi have been the suspected cause of dandruff for more than a century. Previously referred to as Pityrosporum ovale or P. orbiculare, these fungi are now known to consist of at least seven species. METHODS: Over a 4-year period, we obtained 300 hair samples from medical students. Based on the clinical history and a hair-pull test, the participants were divided into two groups: normal subjects and subjects with hair shedding. The students' scalp skin was gently scraped, smeared on a slide, colored by methylene blue, and observed under 10x magnification. RESULTS: All participants who had positive smears with >or=3 P. ovale organisms per low-power microscopic field (10x) were defined as 'carriers.' Seventy-six percent of students were Malassezia carriers. The prevalence of positive smears was significantly higher among subjects with hair shedding than among normal subjects (89.92% vs 9.52%, p<0.001). Furthermore, participants with positive smears had a significantly higher frequency of hair loss complaints and positive hair-pull tests. CONCLUSION: The proportion of subjects who were carriers of Malassezia yeasts was significantly higher in the group with hair shedding, and our results therefore raise the possibility of a relationship between this unicellular organism and hair loss. Our study findings should be explored in a larger series of patients.

[huli]

Nothing really to report in terms of results - certainly no "my hairline is crazy" yet. I am noticing scalp feels good - more supple, less inflammation and shedding appears to be down. May be getting some thickening of vellus hairs along hair line but it is really too early to tell for sure. The positives - less shedding, inflammation etc - is likely as much from very reduced stress levels (I just stopped worrying about my hair) and good dietary choices as from the papain at this point. It is early days (only about 4 weeks) though so I will certainly continue.

One thing I should say is that I reduced the strength of my topical a lot (am using less papain).

How is everyone else doing.

[JHarsh80]

Jharsh, 55% that sounds like alot !

I have no eaten Buckwheat for while, and not in large enough quantities .. I did not experience anything bad while eating it. I´d choose it anytime over wheat.

cpio,

Do you notice any estrogen-like effects from consuming a lot of buckwheat? Research shows that in women with PCOS, di-chiro-inositol found in large amounts in buckwheat, lowered test 55%. I haven't seen any studies on men.

Cpio, Yes 55% in women with PCOS. From wikipedia:

DCI appears to have substantial beneficial effects for PCOS, an observation rationalized by the apparent role of DCI in the etiology of PCOS.[4][5][6] In double-blind studies, women with PCOS who received DCI experienced the following statistically significant benefits when compared with a control group: lowered free and total testosterone, lowered blood pressure, increased insulin sensitivity and a corresponding improvement in glucose disposal, and increased frequency of ovulation. [4][5]
[edit] Dietary sources

Significant dietary sources include; buckwheat (particularly buckwheat farienetta), carob, and Cucubrita ficifolia aka 'fig leaf melon'

From http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/340/17/1314

Results In the 22 women given d-chiro-inositol, the mean (±SD) area under the plasma insulin curve after the oral administration of glucose decreased from 13,417±11,572 to 5158±6714 µU per milliliter per minute (81±69 to 31±40 nmol per liter per minute) (P=0.007; P=0.07 for the comparison of this change with the change in the placebo group); glucose tolerance did not change significantly. The serum free testosterone concentration in these 22 women decreased from 1.1±0.8 to 0.5±0.5 ng per deciliter (38±28 to 17±17 pmol per liter) (P=0.006 for the comparison with the change in the placebo group). The women's diastolic and systolic blood pressure decreased by 4 mm Hg (P<0.001 and P=0.05, respectively, for the comparisons with the changes in the placebo group), and their plasma triglyceride concentrations decreased from 184±88 to 110±61 mg per deciliter (2.1±0.2 to 1.2±0.1 mmol per liter) (P=0.002 for the comparison with the change in the placebo group). None of these variables changed appreciably in the placebo group. Nineteen of the 22 women who received d-chiro-inositol ovulated, as compared with 6 of the 22 women in the placebo group (P<0.001).

Conclusions d-Chiro-inositol increases the action of insulin in patients with the polycystic ovary syndrome, thereby improving ovulatory function and decreasing serum androgen concentrations, blood pressure, and plasma triglyceride concentrations.


It would be disappointing if Prague's "out of control' hairline was simply a result of all the buckwheat he's eating lowering his test levels. He did rank the buckwheat as a 7 from 1-10 on his scale. I am taking a break from it for a while.

What is interesting for me personally is that I was eating buckwheat every morning, including the day I did my saliva collections from which my hormonal levels were taken. My estrogen (E2) was elevated, and my free Test was low. Makes me seriously wonder now. I wish I could go back and take the test without buckwheat to make sure I was getting an accurate result of what my hormonal norm is.