Sagging Skin

[ITITCHES]

Please excuse this slight deviation from the topic at hand. I'm in need of help with certain something.

Recently, I've noticed slight jowls and my jawline less defined. At first you might think it fat, but that's impossible, seeing how skinny I am otherwise. At the time, I realized several other things - my entire face is sagging slightly which I ascertained by the perpetual fatiqued look, folds around my mouth and weird excess skin under my ears.

This would all be perfectly normal as a sign of aging, if I weren't 20 years old.

I picked up Tom Hagerty's scalp exercize which did wonders for my damn itch, and am thinking it a possible culprit for this. Appart from that, I can't for the life of me see the cause. Severe vitamin deficiency of some sort, perhaps? I need help with this.

[ITITCHES]

How could I possibly forget -- I forgot to mention that I've also taken up facial steaming, around two times a day using mint/balm mint/camomile tea. I've also been putting on some sort of herbal facial mud - two times so far.

I've, naturally, stopped the tea treatment. I intend to continue with the mud.

I think the scalp exercize a tad bit too... coincidental but, who knows, maybe it's been tag-team trinity of vitamin deficiency (I don't eat any sort of bread or milk), the aforementioned exercize and the steam rape.

... So how do I reverse the effect?

[halfempty]

What about stress?

I just went through a really stressful time in my life and I can totally tell that it aged my face and I am young too, 25!

How are the stress levels in your life? I think that it really accelerates the aging process!!

[CausticSymmetry]

I've found that aging is in its purest sense, a reduction of hormones. Cortisol when produced in excess (say due to stress) is extremely destructive to everything--purely catabolic unless it is balanced with sufficient hormones that are anabolic. During heightened stress cortisol rises, and testosterone and the good estrogens can fall.

I use a hefty amount of hyaluronic acid to prevent wrinkles or skin sagging since it is responsible for keeping skin full and hydrated. It's the primary reason why old people look like raisins.

There's a cheaper way to get a large dose of hyaluronic acid without the expense. I prefer to blow money on the supplements, but here's a recipe for a bone broth. Making bone broth is the cheapest way get hyaluronic acid.

Bones are loaded in hylauronic acid, and these can come from fish, poultry, beef, lamb, or pork. The bones can be
raw or cooked, and they can be stripped of meat or still contain meat remnants and skin. I found this on the Internet, author unknown:

Cover the bones with water in a covered pot. Add a couple of tablespoons of
one of the following per liter of water: apple cider vinegar, red or white
wine vinegar, or lemon juice. Gently stir and then let it sit for about 30
minutes to let the acid go to work. It is recommended using a pot made of
either stainless steel or porcelain. Using aluminum is not recommended
because the acidic vinegar or lemon juice may cause aluminum to leach into
the broth.

Then bring the water to a boil and immediately cut back to a slow, steady
simmer. Cover and continue to simmer for 4 to 6 hours for fish, 6 to 8 hours
for poultry, and 12 to 18 hours for the other types of bones. Keep a lid on
the pot to avoid having to add water (but add water if and when necessary).
A slow cooker works well since the temperature is generally low enough that
the lid will keep in the steam and it won't require much attention.

If only the broth is desired, then one can strain the liquid through a
colander and consume it immediately either by sipping it as a tea or soup,
or making it into gravy. But the liquid can also be used to cook rice,
beans, or grains. If you want to add vegetables, strain the liquid first and
then add the vegetables for about the last 30 minutes. Feel free to add
other items-such as salt, pepper, butter, or olive oil-to enhance the
flavor. The broth can be stored in the refrigerator for about five days, or
stored frozen for several months.

[ITITCHES]

What about stress?

I just went through a really stressful time in my life and I can totally tell that it aged my face and I am young too, 25!

How are the stress levels in your life? I think that it really accelerates the aging process!!

My stress levels are immense, indeed. I suppose, being 20, it's about time for it to show?

I've also, according to some people, lost weight (!) in the recent months. I didn't think it possible, and I don't really see it, but it seems to be the case. If so, it's plausible that my skins sags because there is simply no meat to hold on to.

In any case, Caustic, thanks a *TON* for that recipe. Supplements in the long run are more or less out of the question and I've got loads of bones around, at all times. I've seen the pictures of your forehead. You're what, around 30-ish? Well, mine looks the same at 20, so it's clear you're doing it right. Obviously, it's time to load up on hyaluronan.

Just tell me one thing please, this slight skin sag *IS* reversible, right? I won't just mantain my current sag level?

[CausticSymmetry]

ITITCHES - I'm a month and change away from forty, but during the time I shot that photo I wasn't taking any hyaluronic acid at the time--at least not regularly. These days my forehead lines are not as prominent as before.

Anyway stress is a killer. Hair follicles contain their own HPTA as they act as a minature organ.

http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/reprint/04-1968fjev1

I wonder what is more potent of a hair killer during stress, is it the release of endocannabinoids (neurogenic inflammation) or is it excessive cortisol release?

Chronic release of cortisol almost always leads to lower levels of testosterone, which eventually tears the body apart.

[halfempty]

Caustic, are the endocannabinoids released when someone smokes pot?

[CausticSymmetry]

halfempty - Yes & No. The body also produces cannabinoids, referred to as endo for endogenous (produced within the body) , however weed does provide exocannabinoids (introduced from outside the body), yet it has other constituents that may help cancel out the negatives. Weed, without merely isolating 9-delta-hydrocarbinol has components that suppress inflammatory eicosanoids that would ultimately produce COX-2 for example.

During times of stress, neurotransmitters and carriers of neurogenic inflammation are definitely destructive to hair. What isn't so clear is that while exocannabinoids can alter hair follicle cycles, the use of weed isn't necessarily bad since it may have other factors to help neutralize the negatives.

Capsaicin or cayenne pepper is a suppressor of the CB1 receptor, so under times of neurogenic inflammation or high stress, it should cancel out the neurogenic inflammation.

[ITITCHES]

ITITCHES - I'm a month and change away from forty, but during the time I shot that photo I wasn't taking any hyaluronic acid at the time--at least not regularly. These days my forehead lines are not as prominent as before.

Anyway stress is a killer. Hair follicles contain their own HPTA as they act as a minature organ.

http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/reprint/04-1968fjev1

I wonder what is more potent of a hair killer during stress, is it the release of endocannabinoids (neurogenic inflammation) or is it excessive cortisol release?

Chronic release of cortisol almost always leads to lower levels of testosterone, which eventually tears the body apart.

And all it takes is proper intake of hyaluronic acid? That's amazing!

As for stress - you make it sound like I've got a choice in the matter. Unforunately, a higher dose of hyaluronan is what will have to do. Thanks for the help.

[CausticSymmetry]

ITITCHES - Not much choice on stress without some help. There are lots of options, but the question would be
is the body extra sensitive to stress or is it constant external stress?

Is this stress expected to continue for a while?

Cayenne pepper capsules may help counteract neurogenic inflammation caused from stress. These are very cheap.

Then there's a question of cortisol. Chronic cortisol release via stress can cause rapid breakdown, so there are minerals and adaptogenic herbs that may help.

cpio had a cool post showing that Curcumin can reverse the effects associated with chronic stress. I think this is the same or a similar study he posted.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17022948

In other posts we've discussed Ashwagandha (Sensoril) and Phosphatidyserine which help decrease cortisol.

[ITITCHES]

ITITCHES - Not much choice on stress without some help. There are lots of options, but the question would be
is the body extra sensitive to stress or is it constant external stress?

Is this stress expected to continue for a while?

Cayenne pepper capsules may help counteract neurogenic inflammation caused from stress. These are very cheap.

Then there's a question of cortisol. Chronic cortisol release via stress can cause rapid breakdown, so there are minerals and adaptogenic herbs that may help.

cpio had a cool post showing that Curcumin can reverse the effects associated with chronic stress. I think this is the same or a similar study he posted.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17022948

In other posts we've discussed Ashwagandha (Sensoril) and Phosphatidyserine which help decrease cortisol.

Yes, it's external stress, and will continue for a while at the very least, but what is this you say, I can actually counter it's physical effects?

If so, let me ask you, will regular cayenne powder or even actual raw cayenne peppers work just as well? I'm afraid capsules of these are tad too exotic to be available in my neck of the woods... And as for circumin and ashwagandha, if they can be found in 'spice form', I think with a bit of luck I can find them as well.

I was able to score some delicious coconut oil recently - what do you think of it, as far as anti-inflammatory action goes?

[CausticSymmetry]

ITITCHES - Cayenne is usually found in bulk powder, but it is not standardized in heat units. That is okay, I have used it in bulk form before. Curcumin would be found as Turmeric or curry in the spice section but would have a lot less curcuminoids, so taking a lot of it would probably be necessary.

Ashwagandha is limited to a capsule.

[jdp710]

Thanks for the info about the bone broth IH.

I just had some chicken bone broth and it wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it would be.

Just add a bunch of salt and mix it with garlic and onion and the taste really isn't much different than Campbell's chicken with rice.

Here's a good article that I'd recommend everyone to read on the benefits of bone broth

http://northdenvernews.com/content/view/227/2/

[zerx]

Thanks for the link jdp!

[jdp710]

I've looked everywhere for valuable information regarding hyaluronic acid and this has to be one the best articles to date on the subject.

hope this helps

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http://www.drpasswater.com/nutrition_library/Sardi.html

Oral Hyaluronic Acid: Anti-aging, Skin, Joints and Healing:

An Interview with Bill Sardi.

By Richard A. Passwater, Ph.D.

My interest in oral hyaluronic acid (HA) was first sparked in early 2001 by my older son, Richard, Jr. Richard was in contact with Professor Akio Kobayashi of the Biochemistry Department at Osaka University regarding the health benefits of HA. I had been aware of the importance of HA in maintaining the proper viscosity of synovial fluid and vitreous gel of the eye, but the importance of HA to skin smoothness and brain was new to me. It wasn’t a complete surprise, considering that HA is the principal compound in the body for retaining water in connective tissue, skin and some organs, but I hadn’t seen studies demonstrating these health benefits before.

Over a year ago, I recommended oral HA to a close friend in the veterinary dietary supplements business. A few months ago, my friend showed me several unsolicited letters he has received from his customers. Notice that I said " customers," but I could have said "users." Often, it seems that when horse owners find a product that helps their horses, they try the product themselves if they have the same condition.

One letter reported, "After three and one-half weeks taking your oral HA, I am off my prescription medicine. My hands quit hurting, and the rest of my body followed. Last year, my doctor told me that I was about two years away from knee replacement. Even with my meds, my right knee hurt. All the pain is gone now. My 13-year old German shepherd has stopped dragging her back feet and doesn’t cry at night. She is also off of her meds. My vet started giving HA to his old lab last week and says he was very skeptical, but saw differences the next day. He started taking it himself after seeing the dramatic improvement in his dog."

This really got my interest. Knowing that Bill Sardi had just written a book on oral HA, I called Bill to ask him to share some of his research with us. Many readers know Bill from his other health books and articles. Bill is a health journalist and has written numerous books, including The Iron Time Bomb, In Search of the World’s Best Water, Why Babies Die, and his latest book, How To Live 100 Years Without Growing Old.



Passwater: Bill, your book captures your excitement about HA. What aroused your initial interest in oral HA?

Sardi: The startling ABC News Prime Time Live TV program (Nov. 2000) in which Connie Chung went to Yuzurihara, Japan (the "village of long life" ) and showed pictures of people who were in their 80’s and 90’s, and who had flawless skin (no wrinkles, no age spots), flexible joints, good eyesight (few wore glasses) and a full head of hair. Some had even habitually worked in the sun much of their lives, smoked tobacco and drunk copious amounts of saki. A World Health Organization (WHO) survey of 990 villages and towns in Japan found Yuzurihara had the oldest population. There are 10 times more people living beyond the age of 80 in Yuzurihara than any place in the United States. This report came on the heels of the WHO announcement that the Japanese live the most disease-free years of any country in the world.

I eventually traveled to Japan to see this for myself. Farmers were still working in their fields into their 70s and 80s and looked like men half their age. One woman in Yuzurihara was in her 90s and had perfect skin, no age spots, no wrinkles whatsoever. This was all confirmed by Dr. Komori, the town doctor. Unlike in other parts of the world where human populations claim to live long but have a difficult time substantiating their claim—like the Hunzas in Eastern Pakistan—the people of Yuzurihara have real birth certificates to prove their longevity.

These people live an hour and a half north of Tokyo, next to the town of Nishi, on a slope where rice, the traditional staple of Japan, cannot be grown. So they eat root vegetables, fish and low iron foods. This diet helps these people retain HA (the root vegetables themselves provide no HA).

HA is the naturally produced water-holding molecule in the connective tissue of the body. Just one gram of HA holds about six liters of water. Think of how the skin of very young babies looks—it won’t even create a scar if cut or scratched. That’s what HA acid does. It is nature’s healing agent and scaffolding or "space filler" for the skin, hair, eyes and joints. It also serves as a barrier against disease.

Passwater: At what point did you become excited enough about HA to write the book?

Sardi: When I began to see it work. The first convincing evidence was when my dog of 17 years, a 10 pound Maltese with arthritis, regained his ability to run up stairs again. Animals don’t know what the placebo effect is. Then my twin brother came to my front door with his knee brace in hand and said he didn’t need it anymore. He had a very bad Baker’s cyst problem from running cross-country races. I could tell there was a difference in my own skin when I shaved. It was now smoother and small nicks from shaving healed right up. These results were observed within two to three weeks. I have since noticed the bounce is back in my legs. In recent years if I jumped three or four feet onto hard pavement my knees would hurt. But now the spring is back in my legs, just as it was when I was younger.

Passwater: Who should be interested in reading your book?

Sardi: Anybody who is going to live past 50 years of age should learn more about HA. There are a lot of claims about anti-aging effects from growth hormone, or this herb or that. There is no question that the loss of HA over time is responsible for the visible signs of aging, wrinkled skin, hair loss, voice changes, diminished eyesight, wear-and-tear, osteoarthritis, yet little is known of this wonderful molecule.

A remarkable finding is that these visible aging signs can be reversed with oral HA supplements. A 57-year old woman called me from Florida. She works at a golf course. Her knees were painful and "clicked" when she moved. She called to say, after just two weeks of taking 300 mg of daily oral HA, that her knee pain had disappeared, her husband had told her that her facial skin looked better than following two previous plastic surgeries, her hair dresser noted that her hair had begun to grow and was thicker, and, most astonishing of all, she had no need for her reading glasses any longer! Others have written or called to say they had canceled knee operations, their crow’s feet (wrinkles on the temples) had disappeared, and friends began asking if they had undergone plastic surgery. The visible results of oral HA supplementation can sometimes be remarkable and rapid.

Passwater: We focus much on the main proteins in skin—collagen and elastin—when we look at skin health. A primary cause of the degeneration of collagen is the decrease in hydrated HA, which supports collagen. This is why skin moisture is so important. Putting moisturizers on the skin surface helps, but this is like using a small Band-Aid on a large cut. Replenishing skin HA is much more important. Drinking plenty of fluids also helps keep the HA hydrated. HA helps keep the collagen intact and smoothes out the skin to prevent wrinkling.

Are there common foods that are high in HA?

Sardi: There was a misconception that since the people in Yuzurihara retained HA because of their diet that others can do the same. One would have to eat that diet throughout life. The diet in Yuzurihara is instructive since the root vegetables and low iron content produced longevity and youthfulness. In Yuzurihara this is attributed to a small sweet-potato-like vegetable called tamaji. Actually, a good example of an equivalent would be Echinacea, which helps to protect and retain HA levels in the body. Other nutrients such as bioflavonoids (quercetin, bilberry, cranberry, green tea, grape seed, others), ferulic acid from Ginkgo biloba and oryzanol in rice bran, as well as IP6 phytic acid, all of which bind to iron and copper and some which inhibit viral replication, help to retain HA levels.

Passwater: One form of oral HA is derived from rooster combs. I’m not aware of many instances where rooster combs have been dietary staples, but I have come across accounts where during a famine in China, rooster combs were consumed in an effort to get more calories out of chicken, and people noted improved skin health. Soon rooster combs were sought after as a beautifying food. There are reports that Marie Antoinette favored rooster combs for her complexion. Eventually, rooster combs were eaten as a delicacy in France, northern Italy and China.

Are you aware of any other instance where unusual dietary items rich in HA have been used?

Sardi: Well, I know that ancient Egyptians had some rather odd glandulars that they ate as medicines. They ate eyeballs from animals. The eyeball is a very rich source of HA. You might say it was the first HA supplement. Today rooster combs and chicken sternum collagen are sources used to produce oral HA supplements. Also, HA is cultured and produced by a microbial fermentation process. These are all good sources of HA. What distinguishes one form of HA from another is its molecular weight, solubility, dosage and cost. Results are observed much more quickly with daily dosage of 150-300 mg. This dose would be cost prohibitive for some oral forms of HA. Benefits are reported from the use of all the oral HA products.

Passwater: Are oral HA supplements legal for sale, according to the 1994 Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act (DSHEA)?


Sardi: DSHEA allows structure and function claims. Companies marketing oral HA supplements, and their retailers, can say oral HA helps to create healthy skin, hair, eyes and joints. The manufacturers will have to provide data before they can make claims of a cure for osteoarthritis or other diseases.

Passwater: How about the part of DSHEA that stipulates that pre-existing drugs can’t be introduced as new supplements?

Sardi: This question arose with red yeast rice used to lower cholesterol. Since the statin drugs are synthetic statin molecules, and statin molecules were also found in red yeast rice, the subject arose as to whether red yeast rice was a drug or a food supplement? (A closer definition would be a nutraceutical, but I’m not sure if the FDA uses that nomenclature.) So, to answer your question, HA has been used in injectable form during eye surgery for over a decade and recently has been used in high molecular weight injected into joints and skin. Does that make oral HA a drug or a dietary supplement? The oral HA products are mostly of low molecular weight. HA in an injectable form ranges from 3 million to 6 million daltons molecular weight, while some oral forms are as low as about 1,500 to 3,000 daltons. A dalton is a unit of mass equal to the mass of a single hydrogen atom.

Passwater: I have seen test results of one oral HA supplement that determined it was about 5,000 daltons. It seems logical that the smaller molecular weight forms of HA are more easily absorbed in the intestines, but that may not be the complete story. Clinical results are what are important.

Sardi: By the way, this is the same problem that some of the medicinal mushrooms and Beta glucans have—too high a molecular weight and poor solubility. Some mushrooms and beta glucans have only been demonstrated to work in injectable form. When they are formulated into oral products, they simply aren’t absorbed through the gut. Some doctors question whether oral HA is absorbed, mistakenly believing it is the same high molecular weight molecule as injectable HA.

Passwater: When did oral HA supplements become available?

Sardi: Oral HA supplements have been available for a number of years, but the manufacturers didn’t know how to market them. They kept bundling them in with or calling them collagen supplements. HA isn’t collagen. Think of cells in the body as bricks and the collagen or connective tissue between cells as the mortar in a brick wall. The HA is the agent that keeps the mortar from drying out and cracking.

Passwater: What does the body normally use HA for? Where can it be found in the body?

Sardi: HA is the water-holding molecule of the body. It holds water in connective tissues, in between cells. Thus it cushions nerves and ends of bones, provides shape and form to the human eye and skin, and forms a barrier against the spread of disease. It’s interesting to note that the female egg is wrapped in HA and that the male sperm produces hyaluronidase, the enzyme that breaks down HA. Hyaluronidase then permits sperm to invade the egg and enable it to be fertilized. This knowledge opens the door to creating a natural form of birth control. Taking natural hyaluronidase inhibitors in high doses, either by the male or female, might prevent conception. This is unproved—just on the drawing boards, so to speak.

Passwater: How does the body make HA? And does this production decrease with age or illness?

Sardi: HA is naturally produced, a few grams a day, and some is degraded and excreted through the liver. Vitamin C in combination with iron helps to break down HA and creates a healthy turnover of fresh HA every day. Unfiltered sunlight (UV rays), viruses and malignancies can cause accelerated breakdown of HA. For instance, in some cancer patients the HA is being broken down at a rapid rate and this can be used as a marker for bladder cancer. Degraded HA is what clogs the lymph glands and blocks the downstream spread of tumors.

In very young children with a disease called progeria, HA is excreted in the urine at a rate 17 times that of healthy children. These progeria kids, at age 2 and 3, look like they are old, very old. They have facial wrinkles, they are bald, and they have cataracts. Progeria serves as evidence that aging is not a function of the number of birthdays but a process involving the loss of HA. Lose HA and a person will look old, regardless of his or her birth date.

Passwater: Seems like it would be more efficient to absorb HA from the diet. How well is oral HA absorbed?

Sardi: For quantification, I think the manufacturers of the oral HA supplements are going to have to conduct tracer studies so the absorption and excretion of oral HA can be measured. For now, we are left with observing the changes in the body, some of which are quite visible, particularly in the skin.