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OT - hernia surgery tomorrow

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OT - hernia surgery tomorrow

Post  Just_A_Signal on Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:25 am

I have a hernia surgery scheduled for tomorrow, for an inguinal hernia.
They're going to insert a polypropylene mesh into my pelvis.
Should I be concerned about this material being in my body?
I'm kind of freaking out.

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Re: OT - hernia surgery tomorrow

Post  BOSCO on Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:51 am

I had a bi-lateral inguinal hernia repair done about 9 years ago.  It was done laproscopically with a Covidian absorbable mesh patch.  I was pretty nervous but it went well.  There was some pain afterwards and I had to walk slowly for about a week.  I haven't had any problems since.
Good luck!

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Re: OT - hernia surgery tomorrow

Post  Just_A_Signal on Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:42 am

BOSCO wrote:I had a bi-lateral inguinal hernia repair done about 9 years ago.  It was done laproscopically with a Covidian absorbable mesh patch.  I was pretty nervous but it went well.  There was some pain afterwards and I had to walk slowly for about a week.  I haven't had any problems since.
Good luck!

thank you!
I just found out I had a hernia today, and have been scheduled for surgery tomorrow. I'm not sure what kind of mesh they're going to use. They won't be doing laprascopic, just the open surgery... I'm nervous about potential (low risk) sexual side-effects. This is the first real surgery of my adult life so it's scary for me...

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Re: OT - hernia surgery tomorrow

Post  Just_A_Signal on Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:45 am

I'm concerned about the mesh causing an autoimmune response leading to a chronic inflammatory state? Any input?

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Re: OT - hernia surgery tomorrow

Post  Just_A_Signal on Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:47 pm

marlex mesh will be used

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Re: OT - hernia surgery tomorrow

Post  Just_A_Signal on Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:01 pm

just cancelled the surgery. I need more time to figure this out before letting someone introduce mesh into my body.

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Re: OT - hernia surgery tomorrow

Post  4039 on Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:52 pm

Just_A_Signal wrote:just cancelled the surgery. I need more time to figure this out before letting someone introduce mesh into my body.

Can only tell you what I would do: collagen hydrolysate , vitamin K2 both MK-4 and MK-7, vitamin C, silica... also MSM (1 1/2 tsp. daily) for the scar tissue.

Collagen Hydrolysate (cheaper on Great Lakes' site in packs of 6, 1tbl 1-3 times daily):
http://www.amazon.com/Great-Lakes-Collagen-Hydrolysate-individuals/dp/B005KG7EDU

Silica (like this stuff best, 3 drops on an empty stomach daily):
http://www.regenerativenutrition.com/organic-silicon-p-126.asp?prod=126
http://www.glycan-shop.com/en/silicium-liquide/85-l-original-silicium-organique-g5-concentre-50ml-6600000172505.html

I've seen inguinal hernias reversed in a period of several months. Start yesterday. Good luck.

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Re: OT - hernia surgery tomorrow

Post  Just_A_Signal on Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:02 am



mine is significantly smaller than this

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Re: OT - hernia surgery tomorrow

Post  Just_A_Signal on Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:18 am

currently looking for non-mesh (or any foreign body) surgery in the chicago area.

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Re: OT - hernia surgery tomorrow

Post  Beebrox on Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:35 am

i went on similar surgery as well, knowing i could have done better in my regeneration phase. materials used are plastics, that have to little accumulated knowledge about bio compatibility. There are plenty biofilms and infections found where the plastics is placed. Would avoid it 1000% if i could reverse time.

I would be listen to 4039's advices and gone conservative way - at least for a while to try out options that require money and hard work. Other things you can do is also religiously avoid any discomfort at the area with avoiding intense work, what also means pressing gently on the area while coughing, laughing or even on a toilet. There are tons of stability exercises that should be done carefully and properly in order to increase blood flow and stimulate the area, and tons of them that would be best not used in situation. Very few physiotherapists are skilled to help out with situation in our part of the planet. I would also go with a PEMF device putting it directly on affected tissue. There are plenty people who recovered from worse situations than yours (i suspect the picture is yours)...

Start yesterday and skip tomorrow is also my advice. Lack of plastics in the body is not why you got here...


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Re: OT - hernia surgery tomorrow

Post  Just_A_Signal on Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:24 am

Beebrox wrote:i went on similar surgery as well, knowing i could have done better in my regeneration phase. materials used are plastics, that have to little accumulated knowledge about bio compatibility. There are plenty biofilms and infections found where the plastics is placed. Would avoid it 1000% if i could reverse time.

I would be listen to 4039's advices and gone conservative way - at least for a while to try out options that require money and hard work. Other things you can do is also religiously avoid any discomfort at the area with avoiding intense work, what also means pressing gently on the area while coughing, laughing or even on a toilet. There are tons of stability exercises that should be done carefully and properly in order to increase blood flow and stimulate the area, and tons of them that would be best not used in situation. Very few physiotherapists are skilled to help out with situation in our part of the planet. I would also go with a PEMF device putting it directly on affected tissue. There are plenty people who recovered from worse situations than yours (i suspect the picture is yours)...

Start yesterday and skip tomorrow is also my advice. Lack of plastics in the body is not why you got here...


Thanks for the reply Beebrox. I found the image above online. My actual hernia is significantly smaller. I have cancelled the surgery in order to give me some time to understand what my best option might be.
I've connected with one doctor who may be willing to do the surgery with sutures alone, and no mesh implant. And I'm now researching the suture material.

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Re: OT - hernia surgery tomorrow

Post  Just_A_Signal on Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:27 am

For anyone interested, this is the response I got from a surgeon when asked if he would consider a mesh-free surgery. Well intentioned, though a bit peeved about my inquiry:

"I would consider it if 1. You have a predisposition to autoimmune disease with evidence for such by blood tests or allergy testing, 2. You have a small hernia that would have a low recurrence rate if mesh were not used, 3. You would be willing to accept that non- mesh repairs have a higher recurrence rate than mesh repairs. It is most important to recognize that you do not want to request that a surgeon perform a non- standard approach based on a “hunch” or unfounded “ fear” of a complication, but rather based on evidence that a non- standard approach has a clear rationale. The consequences of needing a second repair for a recurrence are not trivial and you might be disappointed that you did not follow a standard approach. Happy to discuss at a clinic visit."

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Re: OT - hernia surgery tomorrow

Post  Just_A_Signal on Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:36 am

Update: My surgeon of choice is willing and very experienced in non-mesh suture surgery. The suture material would contain some polypropylene but he said this is a much lower quantity than there would be with the mesh. Should I go with this option?

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Re: OT - hernia surgery tomorrow

Post  Odysseus on Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:10 am

Good lord man, don't ask us, go with what your surgeon says. What in the hell do we know about it?

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Re: OT - hernia surgery tomorrow

Post  Just_A_Signal on Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:19 am

Odysseus wrote:Good lord man, don't ask us, go with what your surgeon says. What in the hell do we know about it?
Point taken. I'm definitely doing my own research and consulting with my surgeon. Just posting to this forum because I know there are some highly intelligent people here who may provide alternative views on the subject that more mainstream practitioners may not be able to offer.
Plus, I don't think there's currently a thread on this topic and it might be useful for future members of the forum.

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Re: OT - hernia surgery tomorrow

Post  BOSCO on Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:38 am

Just_A_Signal wrote:Update: My surgeon of choice is willing and very experienced in non-mesh suture surgery. The suture material would contain some polypropylene but he said this is a much lower quantity than there would be with the mesh. Should I go with this option?

I don't know much about the non-mesh suture surgery.  I checked out two surgeons.  The first one was going to do a traditional surgery with a 3 inch incision and a poly mesh patch.  The second would do a lap surgery with an absorbable mesh patch with absorbable sutures.  I went with the second surgeon.  Shortly before my surgery there was a recall on Bard poly patches.  This spooked me and I liked the idea of a lap surgery so my choice was made.  I haven't had any complications or reoccurrence.

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Re: OT - hernia surgery tomorrow

Post  chubbfrank on Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:23 pm

If you're willing to take a drive, there are a few places in the US and Canada that specialize at hernia repairs without mesh. There is also a new type of hernia repair that doesn't use mesh and is supposedly more effective - I can't remember what it's called, I think it was invented by an Indian doctor - but unfortunately it's not universally performed. I understand your concern, back when I thought I had a hernia (turned out to be a varicocele) I researched it because the idea of a mesh inside me was somewhat troubling. However, the chances of finding a surgeon around you who will do the repair without mesh is small. But definitely Google it to make sure.

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Re: OT - hernia surgery tomorrow

Post  Just_A_Signal on Sat Jul 19, 2014 2:03 am

chubbfrank wrote:If you're willing to take a drive, there are a few places in the US and Canada that specialize at hernia repairs without mesh. There is also a new type of hernia repair that doesn't use mesh and is supposedly more effective -  I can't remember what it's called, I think it was invented by an Indian doctor - but unfortunately it's not universally performed. I understand your concern, back when I thought I had a hernia (turned out to be a varicocele) I researched it because the idea of a mesh inside me was somewhat troubling. However, the chances of finding a surgeon around you who will do the repair without mesh is small. But definitely Google it to make sure.

The Desarda technique uses all absorbable sutures. There's actually a US center in Ft. Meyers Florida. My reservation with this technique is that it's used VERY rarely, and if there were any complications I would likely have to return to Florida to get them resolved.
My local surgeon is willing to do a non-mesh suture-only surgery (the Shouldice or "Canadian" technique). The sutures would be partially absorbable (90%), yet still leave permanent polypropylene bonds (just 2 or 3 stitches). I think this is what I will go with. Especially since if there are complications, many surgeons will be familiar with the method, and as I understand it, sutures are much easier to remove than the mesh patch.

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Re: OT - hernia surgery tomorrow

Post  whodathunkit on Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:22 am

IMO definitely stay away from mesh, but getting the hernia taken care of is paramount.  Whether surgery is your best option is up to you.   Supposedly there are natural methods to fix a hernia but I don't know much about them, of how severe your hernia is, etc.   Presumably, as with most natural therapies, fixing a hernia without surgery would require a great deal more discipline and time than just having surgery.  Probably is a personal decision.

If it was me I would probably research non-surgical ways and then decide if I was willing to try that route before having surgery.

But sometimes, mainstream is the way you gotta go.  We would all like to keep life pure and natural, but what we tend to forget is that there are valid reasons that the "adulterations" of modern life came about.  Food preservatives, for example, came about because food tends to spoil quickly and it's more to the advantage of people to have food last a little longer than it's to their disadvantage to have a couple chemicals in the food.  The problem arises when *everything* is unnecessarily preserved, or too much preservative is used, etc.  Or when plastic is always used for storage when glass or wood would be better even if a little more expensive.  Etc.  It's the same with most things.   Problem with humans as a species is that we always decide that if a little is a good thing, a lot must be better.  That's just not the case.

Point being, if you deem your hernia too severe, or decide you don't have the discipline or time to attempt a natural fix, then go with the suture non-mesh surgery and let it go.  It's unlikely that the small bit of plastic in those sutures is going to cause you problems.   Your body will be able to detox it.  And if not...well, I hate to be blunt, but we've all got to go from something.  I've come to the conclusion that torturing ourselves too much over not keeping it pure enough isn't worth it.  It's too hard to be pure in today's world, anyway. Gather information about your options, make a choice based on what you're willing and able to do, and then enjoy your life while you're still breathing.

I *would* definitely stay away from the mesh, though.  I have a couple of friends that had female surgeries with mesh and had problems.  In your case it sounds like you've found an alternative to mesh, and IMO mesh is still too new a technology, still too experimental, and there have been way too many problems with it wherever it's been applied.  Plus, there's a lot more plastic in mesh than in a few sutures.  

Good luck!

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Re: OT - hernia surgery tomorrow

Post  Just_A_Signal on Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:08 am

whodathunkit wrote:IMO definitely stay away from mesh, but getting the hernia taken care of is paramount.  Whether surgery is your best option is up to you.   Supposedly there are natural methods to fix a hernia but I don't know much about them, of how severe your hernia is, etc.   Presumably, as with most natural therapies, fixing a hernia without surgery would require a great deal more discipline and time than just having surgery.  Probably is a personal decision.

If it was me I would probably research non-surgical ways and then decide if I was willing to try that route before having surgery.

But sometimes, mainstream is the way you gotta go.  We would all like to keep life pure and natural, but what we tend to forget is that there are valid reasons that the "adulterations" of modern life came about.  Food preservatives, for example, came about because food tends to spoil quickly and it's more to the advantage of people to have food last a little longer than it's to their disadvantage to have a couple chemicals in the food.  The problem arises when *everything* is unnecessarily preserved, or too much preservative is used, etc.  Or when plastic is always used for storage when glass or wood would be better even if a little more expensive.  Etc.  It's the same with most things.   Problem with humans as a species is that we always decide that if a little is a good thing, a lot must be better.  That's just not the case.

Point being, if you deem your hernia too severe, or decide you don't have the discipline or time to attempt a natural fix, then go with the suture non-mesh surgery and let it go.  It's unlikely that the small bit of plastic in those sutures is going to cause you problems.   Your body will be able to detox it.  And if not...well, I hate to be blunt, but we've all got to go from something.  I've come to the conclusion that torturing ourselves too much over not keeping it pure enough isn't worth it.  It's too hard to be pure in today's world, anyway.   Gather information about your options, make a choice based on what you're willing and able to do, and then enjoy your life while you're still breathing.

I *would* definitely stay away from the mesh, though.  I have a couple of friends that had female surgeries with mesh and had problems.  In your case it sounds like you've found an alternative to mesh, and IMO mesh is still too new a technology, still too experimental, and there have been way too many problems with it wherever it's been applied.  Plus, there's a lot more plastic in mesh than in a few sutures.  

Good luck!

Thanks for your thoughtful reply!
I'll ask my surgeon if he can do the permanent sutures with something like silk, linen, or stainless steel (though, according to JDP, stainless steel has a nickel component?).
If not, then I'll just take the chance with having a couple plastic stitches in my muscle tissue.
I think you're right. This is a time where absolute purity may not be possible, and I'm ok with that.

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Re: OT - hernia surgery tomorrow

Post  Beebrox on Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:42 am

not all stainless steel has nickel in it.

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Re: OT - hernia surgery tomorrow

Post  Delphine on Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:54 am



My son had a hernia repaired about ten years ago and is doing fine. Fortunately, he is doing better at watching his diet, now.
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Re: OT - hernia surgery tomorrow

Post  thissucks on Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:16 am

Just_A_Signal wrote:
whodathunkit wrote:IMO definitely stay away from mesh, but getting the hernia taken care of is paramount.  Whether surgery is your best option is up to you.   Supposedly there are natural methods to fix a hernia but I don't know much about them, of how severe your hernia is, etc.   Presumably, as with most natural therapies, fixing a hernia without surgery would require a great deal more discipline and time than just having surgery.  Probably is a personal decision.

If it was me I would probably research non-surgical ways and then decide if I was willing to try that route before having surgery.

But sometimes, mainstream is the way you gotta go.  We would all like to keep life pure and natural, but what we tend to forget is that there are valid reasons that the "adulterations" of modern life came about.  Food preservatives, for example, came about because food tends to spoil quickly and it's more to the advantage of people to have food last a little longer than it's to their disadvantage to have a couple chemicals in the food.  The problem arises when *everything* is unnecessarily preserved, or too much preservative is used, etc.  Or when plastic is always used for storage when glass or wood would be better even if a little more expensive.  Etc.  It's the same with most things.   Problem with humans as a species is that we always decide that if a little is a good thing, a lot must be better.  That's just not the case.

Point being, if you deem your hernia too severe, or decide you don't have the discipline or time to attempt a natural fix, then go with the suture non-mesh surgery and let it go.  It's unlikely that the small bit of plastic in those sutures is going to cause you problems.   Your body will be able to detox it.  And if not...well, I hate to be blunt, but we've all got to go from something.  I've come to the conclusion that torturing ourselves too much over not keeping it pure enough isn't worth it.  It's too hard to be pure in today's world, anyway.   Gather information about your options, make a choice based on what you're willing and able to do, and then enjoy your life while you're still breathing.

I *would* definitely stay away from the mesh, though.  I have a couple of friends that had female surgeries with mesh and had problems.  In your case it sounds like you've found an alternative to mesh, and IMO mesh is still too new a technology, still too experimental, and there have been way too many problems with it wherever it's been applied.  Plus, there's a lot more plastic in mesh than in a few sutures.  

Good luck!

Thanks for your thoughtful reply!
I'll ask my surgeon if he can do the permanent sutures with something like silk, linen, or stainless steel (though, according to JDP, stainless steel has a nickel component?).
If not, then I'll just take the chance with having a couple plastic stitches in my muscle tissue.
I think you're right. This is a time where absolute purity may not be possible, and I'm ok with that.
So how are you doing now? It's already been 2 1/2 years... time flies!

It appears I have an inguinal hernia although I haven't gotten it officially diagnosed yet. I wonder if non-mesh surgeries have gotten any more commonplace by now.

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