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CS-If I take Primal-D (dermal D3) do I still need K2?

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CS-If I take Primal-D (dermal D3) do I still need K2?

Post  The Liberator on Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:58 am

Dear CS,

I follow your MPB regimen (and have been for years now) and yesterday I noticed that you switched from oral vitamin D3 to Primal D. I read about it and it looks very promising! However, my question is this....

My understanding is that K2 is needed to transport D3 to where it is needed when taken orally. However, does this mean K2 is NOT needed if I switch to Primal D?

Thanks!

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Re: CS-If I take Primal-D (dermal D3) do I still need K2?

Post  CausticSymmetry on Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:29 am

The Liberator - K2 is still important, however with Primal-D the levels do not have to be as high.

For example, with standard oral D (depending on which expert one were to read), the recommended amount of K2 to take would range from 50 to 200 mcg per 1000 IU of D3.

So with Primal-D, there's no risk of excessing dosing or excessive calcium upregulation. So a standard amount of K2 will suffice, rather than mega dosing.


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Re: CS-If I take Primal-D (dermal D3) do I still need K2?

Post  The Liberator on Thu Nov 20, 2014 11:11 am

Is it safe to assume that the amount of K2 in Decalcify is still the correct amount if used in conjunction with Primal-D?

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Re: CS-If I take Primal-D (dermal D3) do I still need K2?

Post  CausticSymmetry on Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:12 am

The Liberator wrote:Is it safe to assume that the amount of K2 in Decalcify is still the correct amount if used in conjunction with Primal-D?

Yes. For example, one could take just a single capsule of Decalcify and get plenty of K2. When I was taking oral form of vitamin D3, I had to take more (3 capsules) to compensate for any risk of excessive calcium absorption.

Because this Primal-D is self regulating, there's no risk of this, also there are other benefits that cannot be experienced with oral vitamin D.


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Re: CS-If I take Primal-D (dermal D3) do I still need K2?

Post  theseeker86 on Sat Nov 22, 2014 1:42 pm

Just noticed this on your regime page CS but I'm a little hesitant in trying it, just seems like it showed up out of nowhere?

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Re: CS-If I take Primal-D (dermal D3) do I still need K2?

Post  CausticSymmetry on Sat Nov 22, 2014 1:50 pm

theseeker86 wrote:Just noticed this on your regime page CS but I'm a little hesitant in trying it, just seems like it showed up out of nowhere?

The Vitamin D yes? †The main reason is that this form is akin to the function of sunlight and its conversion to vitamin D on the skin. So it is self regulating, which does not occur with the oral form. Also, the benefits of this form are more so than the oral form. It lasts for an estimated one years time.

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Re: CS-If I take Primal-D (dermal D3) do I still need K2?

Post  theseeker86 on Sat Nov 22, 2014 2:09 pm

CausticSymmetry wrote:
theseeker86 wrote:Just noticed this on your regime page CS but I'm a little hesitant in trying it, just seems like it showed up out of nowhere?

The Vitamin D yes? †The main reason is that this form is akin to the function of sunlight and its conversion to vitamin D on the skin. So it is self regulating, which does not occur with the oral form. Also, the benefits of this form are more so than the oral form. It lasts for an estimated one years time.

Yes the Vit D, sorry should of specified.

Sounds like a good alternative to taking it orally. Sorry if it seems like a silly question but this would replace D3 yeah? I know when taking D orally you'd want the D3 but this topical has all bases covered?

How long has this product been out for? Sorry for the scepticism.

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Re: CS-If I take Primal-D (dermal D3) do I still need K2?

Post  CausticSymmetry on Sat Nov 22, 2014 5:03 pm

theseeker86 - It's only been out for a few months. The main advantages or difference is that unlike oral Vitamin D3, there are additional benefits, also no risk of excess dosing, it is self regulating (no risk of excess calcium upregulation), no testing necessary to monitor levels.


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Re: CS-If I take Primal-D (dermal D3) do I still need K2?

Post  theseeker86 on Sat Nov 22, 2014 5:23 pm

Thanks, just one more thing, since it's pretty pricey and the cost of shipping here to Aus would raise it even further, what is the background behind the makers? Have they been around before and made any other good health products?

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Re: CS-If I take Primal-D (dermal D3) do I still need K2?

Post  CausticSymmetry on Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:35 am

theseeker86 wrote:Thanks, just one more thing, since it's pretty pricey and the cost of shipping here to Aus would raise it even further, what is the background behind the makers? †Have they been around before and made any other good health products?

Yes, that's the only downside I suppose. I really looked around to find something similar, although apparently it doesn't exist yet. However, another way to look at it is that no testing is necessary and according to the makers, it will last a little more than a year/420 sprays (4,000 IU per spray). Also, the effect is longer lasting in terms of receptors and unlike the oral form of D3, does not require optimal digestion, which is a serious problem for many.

In terms of the makers their reputation is solid.

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Re: CS-If I take Primal-D (dermal D3) do I still need K2?

Post  TapItIn on Thu Feb 05, 2015 1:13 pm

Hi CS-

Have there been any studies done to prove that this method is effective?

Thanks

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Re: CS-If I take Primal-D (dermal D3) do I still need K2?

Post  CausticSymmetry on Thu Feb 05, 2015 6:46 pm

TapItIn wrote:Hi CS-

Have there been any studies done to prove that this method is effective?

Thanks

Yes in the paper http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25316470

The abstract does not show the details, however I can tell you the key of the full study did assess topical D:

"Assessment of Pharmacokinetics and Toxicology of Sadat-Habdan .... AlKhobar with each gram of the Top-D cream delivering 5000 IU of vitamin D3. administration of vitamin D through the skin "is possible" and "efficacious". They were also able to show that it is "safe," something that in †fact had has been called into question by Michael Holick
in the early 1980s.

The first thing people notice is an elevation of mood, this does not occur with the oral forms, plus the half is much longer and the effect is quicker (like natural sun exposure).

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Re: CS-If I take Primal-D (dermal D3) do I still need K2?

Post  Beebrox on Thu Feb 05, 2015 6:54 pm

Will applying regular D3 through skin do the same, or one need primal-D? If not, it's usage of dmso as a carrier of any deal? What about vitamin A?

Tnx!

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Re: CS-If I take Primal-D (dermal D3) do I still need K2?

Post  CausticSymmetry on Fri Feb 06, 2015 6:34 am

Beebrox wrote:Will applying regular D3 through skin do the same, or one need primal-D? If not, it's usage of dmso as a carrier of any deal? What about vitamin A?

Tnx!

Unfortunately, I do not know exactly how it works completely (it's patented in some respects). It may have to do with the sustained delivery part. However what I do know is that yes, DMSO (is a major part of the delivery process), and that the DMSO itself is necessary for not just the transport vehicle, but also the sulfur relationship (activation) of the conversion process.

Orally administered Vitamin D3 has some well-known toxicity risks as well as negative effects on calcium and parathyroid hormone that can lead to unwanted calcium deposits in tissue of the heart and other organs. Incidentally though, this can be largely offset with ample vitamin K2.

These issues are not seen in D3 that is synthesized in the skin. Ultraviolet rays stimulate the production of 7-Dehydrocholesterol and in turn is converted to Pre-Vitamin D3 and then convert again to Vitamin D3 in the skin. This 3 step synthesis and conversion process can be inhibited by a number of factors, one of which is ultraviolet rays.

Primal-D Topical Vitamin D spray is converted to Vitamin D3 successfully the skin acts like a storage tank allowing Vitamin D3 to be picked up by local blood vessels and infused into the blood supply. Itís final conversion to the more active 25-hydroxyvitamin D3 and then finally to 1,25-hydroxy D is then facilitated. Essentially it bypasses the 3 phase synthesis and conversion process and delivers pure Vitamin D3 into the skin.

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Re: CS-If I take Primal-D (dermal D3) do I still need K2?

Post  Beebrox on Fri Feb 06, 2015 6:59 pm

Tnx again for this solid answer. Will try to experiment a bit and see what it does. I was never fan of taking it internally (never experienced anything positive from it), but being on the sun is also part of stopping my HL deal...


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Re: CS-If I take Primal-D (dermal D3) do I still need K2?

Post  diffuse on Sat Feb 13, 2016 7:42 am

So is this Primal-D a resolution to the old vitamin D debates from a few years ago? If I recall, the concern was that too much oral D3 could cause problems via long-term suppression of the immune system. Sounds like the self-regulation aspect of this version, if it works, would make it safer. Surprised there isn't a discussion, it was quite a contentious topic at the time.

It seems like Primal-D isn't sold in the UK. Has anyone here found a source or are we having to import (and incur customs charges etc)? Pretty expensive compared to the dirt cheap pills.

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Re: CS-If I take Primal-D (dermal D3) do I still need K2?

Post  CausticSymmetry on Sat Feb 13, 2016 8:42 am

I generally prefer to take it internally, provided there is some internal vitamin A and vitamin K2. This resolves most of the problems.

In the literature a lot of controversy is that in isolation, these nutrients do not work well. Foods that contain vitamin D naturally already contain co-factors.†

There's probably other sources, perhaps Ebay

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Re: CS-If I take Primal-D (dermal D3) do I still need K2?

Post  diffuse on Sat Feb 13, 2016 10:47 pm

Hmm, if you've gone back to internals that isn't really a ringing endorsement of the topical product. The extra cost is considerable (it's not on Ebay here either).


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Re: CS-If I take Primal-D (dermal D3) do I still need K2?

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