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detumescence really works.

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Re: detumescence really works.

Post  johndoe1225 on Sat Oct 31, 2015 8:36 am

By the way, I'd like to add that since I consciously worked on completely relaxing my frontalis and occipital muscles and my whole face in general is when I had the fastest gains in scalp laxity. I used to have my eyebrows completely tensed due to stress/social anxiety, thinking it made me look happy, when in reality it made me look really surprised all the time.

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Re: detumescence really works.

Post  sizzlinghairs on Sat Oct 31, 2015 8:50 am

TNT wrote:i was on DT for almost six months and my hair was getting thicker, but when i shave my head i saw two huge wrinkles and it was awful. I was scared and i stopped DT. Does anyone else has notice that?

... Uhg, has anyone noticed these wrinkles besides TNT?

TNT, are you sure they were wrinkles?

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Re: detumescence really works.

Post  TNT on Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:25 pm

Yes, it should be wrinkles because i have stopped Detu 3-4 months ago and they just have fade but not disappear

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Re: detumescence really works.

Post  sizzlinghairs on Sat Oct 31, 2015 11:57 pm

TNT, please check your PMs. Thanks!

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Re: detumescence really works.

Post  cdto2012 on Sun Nov 01, 2015 1:35 am

I can only guess that the pinching of the skin was done in a pattern that repeatedly made a crease that lasted.  Naturally pinching should be done in a mixed directional pattern. Vitamin C and other nutrients keep the skin elastic and capillaries strong to prevent bruising when massaging. If the DT ultimately worked maybe no need to shave and just cover the wrinkles.
       I remember reading a little about enzyme therapy being part of the mites awareness lady's treatment.  One of her websites was down, but I went on and continued some research I had some knowledge about.  Basically if the mites are under control, blood flow is being restored with massage, and the skin seems healthier; dealing with the fibroid damage seems a logical step. This is an effort to not only intensely remove any dead skin layer, but with enzymes also melt away fibroid scar tissue.
      There are ways to find products or just use green papayas and pineapples for enzyme therapy. For me I live in Asia and I basically know what I need to do the job.  Yes straight meat tenderizer.  I picked up some "Master Foods" brand. Ingredients salt , rice flour, bromelain, papain (contains lactose) .  From my research this is an acceptable mix and I am not aware that I have latex or other allergies to the ingredients.  I will post some links below about this for those interested. I am doing a small test on my arm, then will mix up some tenderizer with honey and let it sit for the first treatment. It can be powerful dissolving compound so take it seriously, I am sure it could damage your skin if left on too long or used too often.
      I am sure there are other hair forums with enzyme therapy, nothing new. It is used for acne, scar reduction, and other common uses like bee stings.  I guess the golden level is to mix it with urea, haven't gotten that far yet. Anyhow if anybody wants to add some cautionary tales or advice feel free.  
https://www.reddit.com/r/SkincareAddiction/comments/3bwsy1/so_i_put_meat_tenderizer_on_my_face/

http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com/2010/03/papaya-extract.html

http://naturalbeautytips.co/is-papaya-good-for-skin/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18496083  
http://www.hindawi.com/journals/btri/2012/976203/
https://modestyplusglamour.wordpress.com/2012/10/07/pineapple-for-acne-scars/

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Re: detumescence really works.

Post  johndoe1225 on Sun Nov 01, 2015 10:50 am

Oh by the way cdto, can I ask what your DT technique would be if you were just using your hands and not the pill bottles?  Wierd question I know Very Happy

I just noticed that I have sooooo much dead skin on my temples, which was hidden since after I wash it looks totally clean, but then if I even just very gently rub it or just move it, it gets all flaky.

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Re: detumescence really works.

Post  cdto2012 on Sun Nov 01, 2015 2:13 pm

Hi JohnDoe I might guess that you could benefit from some essential oils in your diet, like fish oil, flax seed, or just vitamin A and E . These should turn flaky skin into healthy skin, the oils can be applied externally also. I hear Emu oil is the other topical for growth. Of course they are good for your entire body. Green vegetable fresh juice is the other body balancer.
As for the vitamin bottle, it can be used for gentle massages too, it is just a way to save your fingers from stress. Rolling the side of the bottle on the scalp is quite soothing. Without the bottle it is just circles that move the skin and pinching in different directions. With the bottle I can get stronger pressures to quickly get the veins to visibly protrude and press out any sebum efficiently.
I did a one hour enzyme scrub/ meat tenderizer session. It certainly leaves the scalp with a new definition of clean and smooth. It just feels a bit like having sun on the skin, but that is mostly from be scrubbing and the salt. I am going to do it longer today, it seemed like a harmless low impact first try. Imagine if it really could dissolve the crust, dead cells, and scar tissue that is in the way of faster growth.

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Re: detumescence really works.

Post  johndoe1225 on Sun Nov 01, 2015 2:17 pm

cdto2012 wrote:Hi JohnDoe     I might guess that you could benefit from some essential oils in your diet, like fish oil, flax seed, or just vitamin A and E .  These should turn flaky skin into healthy skin, the oils can be applied externally also. I hear Emu oil is the other topical for growth. Of course they are good for your entire body.  Green vegetable fresh juice is the other body balancer.
   As for the vitamin bottle, it can be used for gentle massages too,  it is just a way to save your fingers from stress. Rolling the side of the bottle on the scalp is quite soothing.  Without the bottle it is just circles that move the skin and pinching in different directions.  With the bottle I can get stronger pressures to quickly get the veins to visibly protrude and press out any sebum efficiently.
 I did a one hour enzyme scrub/ meat tenderizer session.  It certainly leaves the scalp with a new definition of clean and smooth.  It just feels a bit like having sun on the skin, but that is mostly from be scrubbing and the salt.  I am going to do it longer today,  it seemed like a harmless low impact first try.  Imagine if it really could dissolve the crust, dead cells, and scar tissue that is in the way of faster growth.

Ok, thanks.  That's my idea, knead in two separate circular motions with a lot of downward pressure at the same time to promote circulation, get your head nice and warm, then do the two handed pinch (knead?) all over.

Sometimes I pinch my temples really good with my fingernails.

I mean, as long as the scalp is nice and loose (the WHOLE scalp), it's only a matter of time until stabilization comes, right?

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Re: detumescence really works.

Post  cdto2012 on Mon Nov 02, 2015 1:33 am

cdto2012 wrote:Hi JohnDoe     I might guess that you could benefit from some essential oils in your diet, like fish oil, flax seed, or just vitamin A and E .  These should turn flaky skin into healthy skin, the oils can be applied externally also. I hear Emu oil is the other topical for growth. Of course they are good for your entire body.  Green vegetable fresh juice is the other body balancer.  
johndoe1225 wrote: 
I mean, as long as the scalp is nice and loose (the WHOLE scalp), it's only a matter of time until stabilization comes, right?
 I have the area near my crown that has remained loose and flexible even before DT.  Unfortunately it is also 80% bald too. I think I would go for some  dietary balancing for the dry skin,  it seems like an obvious flag to pursue. Massage is not known to cure dry skin, and it will only benefit your eyes, hormones,  and entire body to make sure your diet is well researched. The liver converts the HGH and other hormones, it relies heavily on essential and omega 3 oils.  In all my hairloss days, the only times I had any dandruff or dry scalp is when I was coming off minox.
http://www.apteraromatherapy.com/articles1.html
 On the very exciting side I can see more of my tiny hairs actually thickening enough to grow past the peach fuzz length ! I am not paying attention to the receding border area, it is hard to keep track of what is coming and going there. I can see almost 2 inches away from my receding line, over the blood vessels on both sides shooting hairs out. If they keep up I will probably take some pictures and then shave them because they are kind of in the middle of my temples and out of place. I mentioned these before, but there is a real wow moment when they go for lift off and just keep growing day by day.
  Oh did 3 hours with full strength scrub and meat tenderizer on the scalp today. Honestly it is a pretty gentle treatment if the scalp is healthy already. I did not notice excessive redness or stinging. If it did just kill dead cells it did it gently.  Four hours is what the instructions say to tenderize a steak,  so it seems a safe enough treatment.

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Re: detumescence really works.

Post  johndoe1225 on Mon Nov 02, 2015 1:42 am

cdto2012 wrote:
cdto2012 wrote:Hi JohnDoe     I might guess that you could benefit from some essential oils in your diet, like fish oil, flax seed, or just vitamin A and E .  These should turn flaky skin into healthy skin, the oils can be applied externally also. I hear Emu oil is the other topical for growth. Of course they are good for your entire body.  Green vegetable fresh juice is the other body balancer.  
johndoe1225 wrote: 
I mean, as long as the scalp is nice and loose (the WHOLE scalp), it's only a matter of time until stabilization comes, right?
 I have the area near my crown that has remained loose and flexible even before DT.  Unfortunately it is also 80% bald too. I think I would go for some  dietary balancing for the dry skin,  it seems like an obvious flag to pursue. Massage is not known to cure dry skin, and it will only benefit your eyes, hormones,  and entire body to make sure your diet is well researched. The liver converts the HGH and other hormones, it relies heavily on essential and omega 3 oils.  In all my hairloss days, the only times I had any dandruff or dry scalp is when I was coming off minox.
http://www.apteraromatherapy.com/articles1.html
 On the very exciting side I can see more of my tiny hairs actually thickening enough to grow past the peach fuzz length ! I am not paying attention to the receding border area, it is hard to keep track of what is coming and going there. I can see almost 2 inches away from my receding line, over the blood vessels on both sides shooting hairs out. If they keep up I will probably take some pictures and then shave them because they are kind of in the middle of my temples and out of place. I mentioned these before, but there is a real wow moment when they go for lift off and just keep growing day by day.
 Oh did 3 hours with full strength scrub and meat tenderizer on the scalp today. Honestly it is a pretty gentle treatment if the scalp is healthy already. I did not notice excessive redness or stinging. If it did just kill dead cells it did it gently.  Four hours is what the instructions say to tenderize a steak,  so it seems a safe enough treatment.

Great to hear about the progress!

My scalp is rapidly getting easier to make flexible at every DT session, I think in part due to me relaxing my face throughout the day.

The main ridge on my scalp may be getting a bit smaller, but I'll have to examine it more before I decide.  Either way I'll focus the hardest pinching/stretching/pressing on that area.

I also got some die-off symptoms from increasing my coconut oil intake yesterday, I'll see how that goes, maybe it's Candida.

I'm paranoid about silly things like getting my scalp too loose causing massive forehead wrinkles, I wish I could stop thinking about things like that Very Happy

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early photos

Post  cdto2012 on Mon Nov 02, 2015 4:05 am

I suppose it has been around 13 days now since I started the heavy pressure massage and other things (no minox or fin).  Many people are always asking/ complaining that nobody is positing hairs transforming before their eyes photos. I will post these because they are a good area to monitor. They are new growth in an area that has been bald for years on both sides.  There is no need to sort through receding hairline figuring out if the hair is new or dying out. All of this growth is only from the since I started DT recently.  I drew a few red lines to point out the area that is showing the few hairs that have thickened and have grown far beyond what they were a few weeks ago, and beyond the normal vellus hair size.  You can see many other hairs getting ready to follow in the photos, but they are just beginning to show the distinguishing length, of course all of the hairs are light colored, or silver at this early time and thickest following the blood vessels that protrude when massaged.

  I will try to figure out the photo posting, as I would like you to be able to download them with a right click " download image as" , if you want to magnify them . Will see how this works .
 hosted picture links
http://i21.servimg.com/u/f21/19/35/15/42/20151110.jpg

http://i21.servimg.com/u/f21/19/35/15/42/20151111.jpg

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Re: detumescence really works.

Post  johndoe1225 on Mon Nov 02, 2015 5:47 am

cdto2012 wrote:I suppose it has been around 13 days now since I started the heavy pressure massage and other things (no minox or fin).  Many people are always asking/ complaining that nobody is positing hairs transforming before their eyes photos. I will post these because they are a good area to monitor. They are new growth in an area that has been bald for years on both sides.  There is no need to sort through receding hairline figuring out if the hair is new or dying out. All of this growth is only from the since I started DT recently.  I drew a few red lines to point out the area that is showing the few hairs that have thickened and have grown far beyond what they were a few weeks ago, and beyond the normal vellus hair size.  You can see many other hairs getting ready to follow in the photos, but they are just beginning to show the distinguishing length, of course all of the hairs are light colored, or silver at this early time and thickest following the blood vessels that protrude when massaged.

  I will try to figure out the photo posting, as I would like you to be able to download them with a right click " download image as" , if you want to magnify them . Will see how this works .
 hosted picture links
http://i21.servimg.com/u/f21/19/35/15/42/20151110.jpg

http://i21.servimg.com/u/f21/19/35/15/42/20151111.jpg

Interesting, those should be a good reference because you can easily see the length since they are mostly all trimmed

So the heavy pressure seems to be working then?  That makes me feel a little more at ease, because I'm sure you get much more force with an object than I apply with my fingers.

It's just that the darn hairs seem to still be miniaturizing...It's still early though at barely 3.5 months.  Maybe I should return to the forceful deep downward pressure?

Also I was wondering, perhaps DT therapy combined with Tom Hagerty's or the extreme version of Tom Hagerty's exercises would be an even more powerful way to go?  My only concern is that with Tom's exercises, the scalp is pulled really tight over the skull, if this balances with the increased blood flow to the galea because of the muscle contractions I don't know.  Also the amount of time one should spend on the exercises total, and the amount of time one should contract the frontalis as opposed to the occipital muscle.

I'm really conflicted between relaxing my whole face/scalp/head all the time and doing Tom's exercises. I reduced my time to around 5-10 minutes a day of Tom's exercises, but would definitely do more if it did some good. I used to do it for much longer, but that was before DT when my scalp was tight.

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Re: detumescence really works.

Post  bayman on Mon Nov 02, 2015 6:13 am

Do you guys think massaging your scalp randomly multiple times a day for a minute or so would do any good? Don't think I have the discipline to this 20 minutes twice a day

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Re: detumescence really works.

Post  johndoe1225 on Mon Nov 02, 2015 6:19 am

bayman wrote:Do you guys think massaging your scalp randomly multiple times a day for a minute or so would do any good? Don't think I have the discipline to this 20 minutes twice a day

Randomly? I suppose it's better than nothing but if you're going to do it at all you might as well do it right Very Happy

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Re: detumescence really works.

Post  long hair on Tue Nov 03, 2015 12:35 am

bayman wrote:Do you guys think massaging your scalp randomly multiple times a day for a minute or so would do any good? Don't think I have the discipline to this 20 minutes twice a day
ok byman ...my advice is to download DT study ,read it carfully ,believe it ,and do it every day , keep coming here and we show you how deep the rabbit hole goes. Remember: all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more.
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Re: detumescence really works.

Post  johndoe1225 on Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:32 am

long hair wrote:
bayman wrote:Do you guys think massaging your scalp randomly multiple times a day for a minute or so would do any good? Don't think I have the discipline to this 20 minutes twice a day
ok byman ...my advice is to download DT study ,read it carfully ,believe it ,and do it every day , keep coming here and we show you how deep the rabbit hole goes. Remember: all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more.

And then choose which color pill to take Very Happy

By the way, probably a stupid paranoid question, but is it possible for the scalp to be too loose and affect the rest of the face?  My scalp is nice and loose (at least most of the front) and my face still looks fine the way it did when my scalp was tight.

I also do a lot of Tom's scalp muscle exercises though so that may help.

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enzyme therapy follow up

Post  cdto2012 on Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:12 am

I got an interesting result with the meat tenderizer enzyme treatment I did about 2 days ago. I did it for 3 hours and it did not feel or look like much changed. My skin was just soft, salt scrubbed, and clean to a new level.
    Then a day later I took the photos that I posted and noticed with the camera some of the areas that I over scoured, just a bit dark. Today I did a treatment with olive oil and vinegar softening the skin. This evening I ran my nails over some small bumps. The dead skin was collected into removable caps. They were about every 1/4 inch and were like pulling off scabs with my nails, but they were just dead skin.
   Most interestingly they were only on the areas that were MPB effected. I had scrubbed my whole face with the same treatment/duration .  Not a trace of this on my healthy face skin. I had heard that papain can be targeting weak or dead skin. This was amazing to be able to take 20 minutes  and peel away clearly dead and pore blocking skin. There was no discomfort like a scab, but it took some nail power to free them from the skin. Also no blood or discoloration after removal.  Just a soft clean scalp with more fuzz daily. I can literally see indentations where the caps were, like the center of a micro crater has been removed.
   As for how little effort can be spent on this treatment.  I think that if you could get your blood vessels to bulge in a few minutes you would get a decent result.  Doctors with injections simply put that constrictor (pinch) on the arm and tap to get the veins to bulge.
   For me it is blood flow that is allowing quick growth in any area, not according to receding line regrowth first. I guess that the fast return of the veins network is due to the strong pressure to break up the calcification and fibers, and just plain regenerate the skin  and deep tissue.

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Re: detumescence really works.

Post  long hair on Tue Nov 03, 2015 7:30 pm

johndoe1225 wrote:.

And then choose which color pill to take Very Happy

By the way, probably a stupid paranoid question, but is it possible for the scalp to be too loose and affect the rest of the face?  My scalp is nice and loose (at least most of the front) and my face still looks fine the way it did when my scalp was tight.

I also do a lot of Tom's scalp muscle exercises though so that may help.

i did tom hagerty exercise 1.5 year a go and yes it did some wrinkle in my forehead ,some thing like when you looks angry ...i did that exercise for only 3 month then i stoped not beacuse the wrinkle , i just found maliniak massage much easyer and loos the galya so fast ...i got some regrowth from that .actually tom exercise prove to me that hair loss could be reversed naturally
today no wrinkle at my forhead .
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Re: detumescence really works.

Post  johndoe1225 on Wed Nov 04, 2015 8:41 am

long hair wrote:
johndoe1225 wrote:.

And then choose which color pill to take Very Happy

By the way, probably a stupid paranoid question, but is it possible for the scalp to be too loose and affect the rest of the face?  My scalp is nice and loose (at least most of the front) and my face still looks fine the way it did when my scalp was tight.

I also do a lot of Tom's scalp muscle exercises though so that may help.

i did tom hagerty exercise 1.5 year a go and yes it did some wrinkle in my forehead ,some thing like when you looks angry ...i did that exercise for only 3 month then i stoped not beacuse the wrinkle , i just found maliniak massage much easyer and loos the galya so fast ...i got some regrowth from that .actually tom exercise prove to me that hair loss could be reversed naturally
today no wrinkle at my forhead .

What was your technique with Tom's exercise?  It's actually supposed to remove wrinkles

I was wondering if too much DT can cause forehead wrinkles

I'm wondering if I should take a break from DT for a week or so?

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More pictures, set 2

Post  cdto2012 on Wed Nov 04, 2015 4:35 pm

Hello again,
  Just a few days since my last pictures, but so many hairs are growing past the fuzz stage that I have some updated photos. Mostly what is on my mind is the validity of surface skin treatment. I am sure that I have the same amount of DHT in my body,  just healthy skin regrows hair when it is treated.
  The growth is not after a shed. Growth is not after a gradual process where it started at my receding line and slowly moved forward after many months. I put a photo of the mid temple growth, and another so you can get an idea of when is happening near the  hair line. There is actually a lot of new growth near the hair line, it is just hard to document what is new growth, compared with possible old hairs that are thin. In the hairline photo you can see the hairless scalp above, in contrast to the new hairs below .
   In the picture focused on the temple hairs, notice the continuous patch from the temples back to the hairline. That is not a trick of the light, those are all new growth in the last 2 1/2 weeks and are growing daily.  There are many others that can be seen ready to launch in other areas, and on the scalp top there are many hairs quickly thickening. I guess I should mention that I basically stopped eating grains for the last month. This includes brown bread and brown rice. Mostly eat fruit and vegetable juice, chicken and tuna.
  All of my photos are taken on a cheap samsung android. Anybody can document with photos, it is just getting the light correct.

   Picture links from 2  1/2 weeks progress

http://i21.servimg.com/u/f21/19/35/15/42/20151112.jpg

http://i21.servimg.com/u/f21/19/35/15/42/20151113.jpg

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Re: detumescence really works.

Post  long hair on Wed Nov 04, 2015 7:17 pm

john.. my tech is to relax the 2 frontal muscles by pulling my eye brow up and and then relase them ..up and relase .continue may be for 5 min . then i go for the right side muscle move my ear back like a donkey. LoL ,then relase it .move it back and relase many times before i go to the left side and do the same thing.
now the back muscles will contract automaticly when you do the frontal movment , but when i finished i go to the back muscle and squeeze them with 3 fingers to reliefe any pain also i press what i call pain points could found at any place in the back.
i saw this one a year a go doing the same thing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHIUO_jWDqQ
i hope he got his hair back by now.

moving ears could be hard for beginners but you will be trained through the time .
i still do the back muscle massage as a part of maliniake massage .
i don't see any forehead wrinkles from DT . and if you stoped DT a little dont stop press the 6 muscle  around your head because thos will help keep your scalp loos all the time.  Basketball
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Re: detumescence really works.

Post  long hair on Wed Nov 04, 2015 8:07 pm

thanks cd ... at the second photo i see you could gain some black hairs a way from your receded hair line . that is a sighn your scalp is start to response to your cleansing.
i think you are in a wright way and it's a matter of time before that colorles hair at the sides will follow .
you may also try this lol!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsPiS4OcnXQ
hahaha it's a jock..but what if it works Shocked
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Re: detumescence really works.

Post  johndoe1225 on Wed Nov 04, 2015 11:56 pm

Hey cd, thanks for the update, definitely see a few very thick terminals coming in!  

So you can pretty much say with 100% certainty that the really high downward pressure you use did not hinder your hair/damage it at all?

@long hair:  I think the main way to do Tom's exercise as I read that he explained it once is to fully contract the frontalis not even for a full second, and then relax and contract the occipitals for about 3 seconds, and not to isolate the frontalis

Also I remember him saying that you shouldn't train one side at a time

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Re: detumescence really works.

Post  cdto2012 on Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:38 am

johndoe1225 wrote:Hey cd, thanks for the update, definitely see a few very thick terminals coming in!  

So you can pretty much say with 100% certainty that the really high downward pressure you use did not hinder your hair/damage it at all?

For sure all of my hairs are on grow mode. The grafts are growing faster than ever. There are some "first responder" hairs that have popped out in full diameter in random places and grow like regular mature hair. I saw this when I did needling also. I do not talk about them much because they are random and hard to believe. You can actually see one full diameter hair that I had to shave 2 days ago; in the first photo that is farther back from the hairline. It is a sold white hair in the bottom right in front of my ear. It was more than a half inch long so I shaved it and you can see that it already grew back some.
I have had basically no shed, and have really shocked my scalp with the meat tenderizer, olive oil and vinegar, and tea tree oil. I have really defined the massage technique. Not finished until the veins protrude.
The results are fun to watch because once the hairs decide to grow, they can move pretty fast. I have been around the hair loss community long enough to know these are extraordinary results, bordering on unbelievable. If this rate of growth continues I think this experiment will redefine treatment understanding and protocols. I can only hope for a furry future.

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Re: detumescence really works.

Post  johndoe1225 on Thu Nov 05, 2015 1:08 am

cdto2012 wrote:
johndoe1225 wrote:Hey cd, thanks for the update, definitely see a few very thick terminals coming in!  

So you can pretty much say with 100% certainty that the really high downward pressure you use did not hinder your hair/damage it at all?

   For sure all of my hairs are on grow mode.  The grafts are growing faster than ever.  There are some "first responder" hairs that have popped out in full diameter in random places and grow like regular mature hair. I saw this when I did needling also. I do not talk about them much because they are random and hard to believe.  You can actually see one full diameter hair  that I had to shave 2 days ago; in the first photo that is farther back from the hairline.  It is a sold white hair in  the bottom right in front of my ear. It was more than a half inch long so I shaved it and you can see that it already grew back some.
   I have had basically no shed, and have really shocked my scalp with the meat tenderizer, olive oil and vinegar, and tea tree oil. I have really defined the massage technique. Not finished until the veins protrude.
  The results are fun to watch because once the hairs decide to grow, they can move pretty fast.  I have been around the hair loss community long enough to know these are extraordinary results, bordering on unbelievable.  If this rate of growth continues I think this experiment will redefine treatment understanding and protocols.  I can only hope for a furry future.

Alright thanks again, I guess I'll just continue with the DT technique I've been using, still shed though, but that's necessary unfortunately.

johndoe1225

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