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detumescence really works.

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Re: detumescence really works.

Post  johndoe1225 on Sun Oct 25, 2015 5:29 am

cdto2012 wrote:When it comes to hair loss, any little glimmer of hope is worth having a glee party over  ; )

 I had thought of massaging to bring circulation years ago, but why continue with it when the first shed starts? I takes an online community of research and experience to sustain a treatment program that is focused enough to isolate results. The potential of such a simple starting massage technique is that now others can add to it and share results.  
   I really was one of the first guys years ago to start on the forums with needling at deeper levels, with my  defined treatment. It has become now a documented treatment with a supporting industry of products.
 For this DT , maybe we could get analysis done on the fluid excretions, have cadavers tested to really see what is different about a balding scalp and if there is support for a calcium dome etc.
 Any number of things that come from having a simple week long pressure treatment that gets attention. People would assume that most of the vital research has already been done on cadavers and balding dynamics. For me it is possible that most of the research is done with a limited focused objective. This objective is usually inherently product and profit driven.  A treatment that is free and easy like massage with diet is something  that would not be released (or researched) by a well funded lab financed by pharmaceutical company.

With a crowd of people using the same basic program, then a clear evaluation of the potential can be made, along with independent research.
Like the goofy old communist saying " 20 years work in one day"   maybe we can get 20 days massage value done in one night with the correct pressure and technique .

Well said.  Again, the downsides of DT really don't hold up. It increases circulation, improves scalp laxity, releases tension, expels trapped crap

Also, little update:  In the areas in the top/back where I got the most sticky grease yesterday, today I find that they were covered in dandruff, so I sprayed a bunch of ACV on the whole area to try to get it off.  No more sticky grease today.

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Re: detumescence really works.

Post  long hair on Sun Oct 25, 2015 7:58 pm

cdto2012 wrote:When it comes to hair loss, any little glimmer of hope is worth having a glee party over  ; )

 I had thought of massaging to bring circulation years ago, but why continue with it when the first shed starts? I takes an online community of research and experience to sustain a treatment program that is focused enough to isolate results. The potential of such a simple starting massage technique is that now others can add to it and share results.  
   I really was one of the first guys years ago to start on the forums with needling at deeper levels, with my  defined treatment. It has become now a documented treatment with a supporting industry of products.
 For this DT , maybe we could get analysis done on the fluid excretions, have cadavers tested to really see what is different about a balding scalp and if there is support for a calcium dome etc.
 Any number of things that come from having a simple week long pressure treatment that gets attention. People would assume that most of the vital research has already been done on cadavers and balding dynamics. For me it is possible that most of the research is done with a limited focused objective. This objective is usually inherently product and profit driven.  Even university research grants can be product influenced. A treatment that is free and easy like massage with diet is something  that would not be released (or researched) by a well funded lab financed by pharmaceutical company.

With a crowd of people using the same basic program, then a clear evaluation of the potential can be made, along with independent research.
Like the goofy old communist saying " 20 years work in one day"   maybe we can get 20 days massage value done in one night with the correct pressure and technique .

but you know they found a calcium layer in a bald poeple heads which is not exist in a fullhead poeple ..also there's a claim that nano bacteria build that calcium cristal to protect it self agenist immune system.
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Re: detumescence really works.

Post  johndoe1225 on Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:17 am

long hair wrote:

but you know they found a calcium layer in a bald poeple heads which is not exist in a fullhead poeple ..also there's a claim that nano bacteria build that calcium cristal to protect it self agenist immune system.

Yeah, not to mention people (myself included) have reported manipulating/flattening these ridges, so there's no denying it at this point. It's a matter of how much pressure to use and the ever elusive correct technique.

My scalp is pretty loose so I think I'll just do very minimal laxity and then just move on to single handed pinching where possible.

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Re: detumescence really works.

Post  johndoe1225 on Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:47 am

Another update from today, something new that hasn't happened before on DT:

I recently started focusing on my entire scalp (although mostly the problem areas, but I try to cover the entire scalp), and today I was kneading the area on top by the crown, where I have a little ridge/bump thingy, and as I tried to re position my hands, I noticed that I had knocked loose a TON of dead skin.  It was pretty big chunks too, I'd never seen anything like that, there was so much dead skin it was ridiculous.  Again, I saturated my entire head with ACV and dabbed a little Aloe Vera juice and will soon shower.

I've been having really positive bodily feedback the last two days with massive grease being expelled, followed by a huge release of dead skin today.  I'm not thinning at the crown but still!

I'm just wondering when I will stop my loss and stabilize my hair, my scalp seems pretty loose especially in the problem areas.  The top is still a bit difficult to pinch with one hand but overall it's pretty good.  Also I suppose the crown is not as loose as it should be.  Maybe I'm focusing too long on the already loose problem areas and not enough of the rest of the scalp?  Maybe I should reduce my time spent on DT?  I do over an hour a day, usually two 30 minute sessions with more time spent on laxity throughout the day.

EDIT: God that was a lot of skin. Even after I showered it's still everywhere.

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Re: detumescence really works.

Post  long hair on Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:12 pm

johndoe what you mean by dead skin Shocked ..is it looks yello things..i ask you that because i notice some yello thing on my comb and i think this is what drexx call it "glow" ..strang because when i do DT i feel this glow just as swet sqweezed from my scalp with no smell .. so it supposed to be just a water . Question
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Re: detumescence really works.

Post  johndoe1225 on Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:31 am

long hair wrote:johndoe  what you mean by dead skin Shocked  ..is it looks yello things..i ask you that because i notice some yello thing on my comb and i think this is what drexx call it "glow" ..strang because when i do DT i feel this glow just as swet sqweezed from my scalp with no smell .. so it supposed to be just a water . Question

I guess "huge dandruff" is another way to describe it Very Happy

No it's definitely not just water or sweat or anything, it's completely dry and crusty.

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Re: detumescence really works.

Post  cdto2012 on Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:20 pm

Just a brief update with my hard plastic deep massage technique. It has been 8 days now. That is a total of about 10+ hours of harder than finger pressure grating of skin against scalp intensity,  with some pinching. My simple first goal is that I want the skin that is MPB effected to pinch as loosely as my side scalp that still has hair. I do see improvement in skin quality (but not full skin flexability) and excretion  of grease and sticky film.  I remove this with vodka and a towel often so it is not reabsorbed.
  My hair grafts (in the massaged area) are growing at the normal fast pace as my beard, maybe an inch a week, and are healthy with none noticed lost. I have no dry skin or yellow issues.
   Now to the micro flimsy evidence, as it is so soon.  I notice that the tiny hairs are thickest and longer near the blood vessels that bulge during the massage. They are just below my temples and maybe 2 inches from my receding line. They actually  follow the veins on both sides and are longer than other micro hairs.
 Of course I will be watching these closely , as with needling it was a similar progression. No shed,  just thickening of vellus hairs, then they lengthened, in a matter of months.  I do not have a special camera, but if they do thicken I will try with my cell phone.

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Re: detumescence really works.

Post  long hair on Tue Oct 27, 2015 8:35 pm

cdto2012 wrote:Just a brief update with my hard plastic deep massage technique. It has been 8 days now. That is a total of about 10+ hours of harder than finger pressure grating of skin against scalp intensity,  with some pinching. My simple first goal is that I want the skin that is MPB effected to pinch as loosely as my side scalp that still has hair. I do see improvement in skin quality (but not full skin flexability) and excretion  of grease and sticky film.  I remove this with vodka and a towel often so it is not reabsorbed.
  My hair grafts (in the massaged area) are growing at the normal fast pace as my beard, maybe an inch a week, and are healthy with none noticed lost. I have no dry skin or yellow issues.
   Now to the micro flimsy evidence, as it is so soon.  I notice that the tiny hairs are thickest and longer near the blood vessels that bulge during the massage. They are just below my temples and maybe 2 inches from my receding line. They actually  follow the veins on both sides and are longer than other micro hairs.
 Of course I will be watching these closely , as with needling it was a similar progression. No shed,  just thickening of vellus hairs, then they lengthened, in a matter of months.  I do not have a special camera, but if they do thicken I will try with my cell phone.
i believe you even without pic ..i see the same on my head ...yes some dark lines on my scalp due to DT massage and the new hair looks more healthy along this lines ..
for the towel i use my old cotton t-shert ...i towel many times at every massage
so no oil will go back ,(it is not aggressive towel by the way) ...that why i reach the "glow" stage at one month .
so why do you want to do transplant? ...DT may work for you if you give it a time.
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Re: detumescence really works.

Post  cdto2012 on Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:16 am

I will just have to see how intense the growth is. I had super thick hair when I was young, for it to be so far gone is a lot of momentum to over come and permanently reverse.  
My first transplant was only 500 grafts and it worked so well to this day. To have 5000 permanent hairs is just a really nice option.  I will see how well DT works for me.  I really like the natural,  healthy option that it offers. Mostly I think it will become a leading foundation treatment for scalp detox prior to any other further treatments.  I wish I had started it when my hairloss originally began.  I will stay with DT as long as I can, just to see it through as a the real valuable treatment that it offers and to document it for others. The sooner it can be recognized and properly validated for those searching the better.
About cleaning, Isoprohyl rubbing alcohol is an excellent cleaner, but is also poisonous. For me vodka is the better solution on a towel. As I mentioned before the scrub with honey and powdered charcoal is a toxin extractor and regeneration mix. Never use carbon with needles or open skin , it tattoos.

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Re: detumescence really works.

Post  johndoe1225 on Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:55 am

cdto2012 wrote:I will just have to see how intense the growth is. I had super thick hair when I was young, for it to be so far gone is a lot of momentum to over come and permanently reverse.  
My first transplant was only 500 grafts and it worked so well to this day. To have 5000 permanent hairs is just a really nice option.  I will see how well DT works for me.  I really like the natural,  healthy option that it offers. Mostly I think it will become a leading foundation treatment for scalp detox prior to any other further treatments.  I wish I had started it when my hairloss originally began.  I will stay with DT as long as I can, just to see it through as a the real valuable treatment that it offers and to document it for others. The sooner it can be recognized and properly validated for those searching the better.
 About cleaning,  Isoprohyl rubbing alcohol is an excellent cleaner,  but is also poisonous.  For me vodka is the better solution on a towel. As I mentioned before the scrub with honey and powdered charcoal is a toxin extractor and regeneration mix.  Never use carbon with needles or open skin , it tattoos.

Hey cd, thanks for the update

Also, I was wondering, what do you think about Tom Hagerty's exercises?  I did these a -lot- but they didn't seem to slow down my hair loss (of course I have no way of knowing how I'd look if I hadn't done them).  

There's another program which is like Tom Hagerty's on steroids where you basically do a few variations of them for a few hours a day

I combine Tom's exercises with DT, what do you think about that?  I can slide my scalp really nice while doing them, and afterwards I do some laxity moves to make sure it gets loose again.  Tom's exercises helped with the sliding of my scalp but DT helped with massively loosening up my scalp, so maybe they work together?

I'm still shedding though, probably in a month or so based on the timeline I should stabilize...

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Re: detumescence really works.

Post  cdto2012 on Wed Oct 28, 2015 3:34 am

I looked at Tom Hagerty's methods,  I thought they were a bit remote and gentle to really effect the skin and hair. If it is free and stress reducing I think it is fine to try.
      I am not sure that muscle improvement has much to do with balding.  Fat people usually have very strong muscles to carry around that weight. This does not mean that the muscles are connected to the health of the skin or hair. Improved muscle circulation does not directly correlate to better skin circulation. I would guess that some people flex and relax forehead muscles often resulting in wrinkles,  but I doubt this prevents hairloss. Even general exercise blood oxygenation and sweat cleansing combined with amazing nutrition has little effect to reverse hairloss.  
I think the DT directly impacts the scalp, and can be done intensely  enough to stimulate circulation, micro bruising regeneration, break up calcification, and aggressively detox the scalp.
I am sure I will have more to write about as I research more, but here is a link about cadavers , calcification , and MPB .
http://www.worldhairloss.org/index.php/hairloss/page2-newsarticles/magnesium_oil_for_hair_loss
Basically for me it comes back to my original theory that treatment needed to be deep enough to stimulate blood flow and decalcification on a bone level. The magnesium decalcification theory is worth a read with the comments there also.


Last edited by cdto2012 on Wed Oct 28, 2015 3:55 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: detumescence really works.

Post  johndoe1225 on Wed Oct 28, 2015 3:41 am

cdto2012 wrote:I looked at Tom Hagerty's methods,  I thought they were a bit remote and gentle to really effect the skin and hair. If it is free and stress reducing I think it is fine to try.
      I am not sure that muscle improvement has much to do with balding.  Fat people usually have very strong muscles to carry around that weight. This does not mean that the muscles are connected to the health of the skin or hair. Improved muscle circulation does not directly correlate to better skin circulation. I would guess that some people flex and relax forehead muscles often resulting in wrinkles,  but I doubt this prevents hairloss. Even general exercise blood oxygenation and sweat cleansing combined with amazing nutrition has little effect to reverse hairloss.  
I think the DT directly impacts the scalp, and can be done intensely  enough to stimulate circulation, micro bruising regeneration, break up calcification, and aggressively detox the scalp.

Oh yes, I also feel DT is much more effective, it's really as hands on as you can get. I was just wondering about doing those scalp exercises as an adjunct treatment.

But this gosh darn shedding is killing me.

My temples are quite loose, maybe I should go easy on them and focus on my scalp ridge where I have mostly all of my hair?

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Re: detumescence really works.

Post  cdto2012 on Wed Oct 28, 2015 4:59 am

cdto2012 wrote:
  I am sure I will have more to write about as I research more,  but here is a link about cadavers , calcification , and MPB .
http://www.worldhairloss.org/index.php/hairloss/page2-newsarticles/magnesium_oil_for_hair_loss
  Basically for me it comes back to my original theory that treatment needed to be deep enough to stimulate blood flow and decalcification on a bone level. The magnesium decalcification theory is worth a read with the comments there also.

I edited after new comments had been posted. I do think that the scalp exercises are compatible with the DT. As for JohnDoe's active shed. You sound younger with much of your hair left. There is a time , often in the late 20's or later when the hair enacts a massive % shed. Sometimes like 30+ hairs a day. I had this and my transplant doctor spoke of it as normal. Later the daily hairloss count generally. is reduced. In my  late 30's the hair count was barely noticeable, but my hair slowly continued receding.
    I am guessing you may be in this cycle of massive shed, and any treatment would need to be adjusted for results in comparison.  One of the hair supplement companies said it was like a car rolling down hill, massive energy to stop the car, a whole other matter to push it back up the hill.
   I will follow up on the calcification research with the quote about mites and sebum. A fairly gritty forum we are positing these days.

The demodex mite feeds on the hair bulb, follicle walls and sebum.  Calcification occurs when the mite feeds on the follicle, injuring the cell walls.  When the cells heal, a scar (calcification) occurrs.  Demodex brevis, which lives in the sebum gland, feeds on the walls of the sebum gland, producing more oil.  There is more information on my website, scalpskinworks.com.

I can’t help but wonder if extraction of follicle congestion might help to remove root calcification.  Calcification typically occurs when a foreign substance is present in the body.  Hardening, as of tissue, by such impregnation.  A calcified substance or part.  You should see the gel like mass that comes out of the follicle, not to mention the demodex mites. It’s down right ugly.
source http://www.worldhairloss.org/index.php/forums/viewthread/15

Clearly the ability to expel excess sebum is an advantage, and physically crushing the mites with a plastic bottle or strong finger pressure sounds very advantageous.  It is an interesting article, as it talks about rats being subjected to  “DHT” in this particular case stands for Dihydrotachysterol not dihydrotestosterone. The point being that the rats eventually had new calcification on the  hair follicle tissue from a mild crush skin injury; with or without the DHT injection.
  My thought is that there is already years of this calcification on my hair cells and breaking up the crystals, deep flexing the capillary walls, and increased blood flow, along with detox and elimination of oils that prevent skin oxidation are worth the risk.  I am pretty sure healthy skin can repel small injury small level calcification. Like I said before, if there was a way to stop hair growth with tapping or massage , it would be a popular alternative to waxing, or at least a documented effect. If I am totally wrong with my deep treatment, at least I supplied the evidence to consider it's risk.
 Most skin impact injuries so not result in baldness but normal hair growth in healthy skin. I have carried heavy back packs (or book bags) daily, a few times heavy enough to literally cut into my skin , as do many postal workers.  My shoulders are plenty hairy as do mail carriers report. Boxing is not known to result in bald chests or bodies or no beard growth from being punched or training to take punches.

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Re: detumescence really works.

Post  johndoe1225 on Wed Oct 28, 2015 5:10 am

cdto2012 wrote:
cdto2012 wrote:
  I am sure I will have more to write about as I research more,  but here is a link about cadavers , calcification , and MPB .
http://www.worldhairloss.org/index.php/hairloss/page2-newsarticles/magnesium_oil_for_hair_loss
  Basically for me it comes back to my original theory that treatment needed to be deep enough to stimulate blood flow and decalcification on a bone level. The magnesium decalcification theory is worth a read with the comments there also.

I edited after new comments had been posted. I do think that the scalp exercises are compatible with the DT. As for JohnDoe's active shed. You sound younger with much of your hair left. There is a time , often in the late 20's or later when the hair enacts a massive % shed. Sometimes like 30+ hairs a day. I had this and my transplant doctor spoke of it as normal. Later the daily hairloss count generally. is reduced. In my  late 30's the hair count was barely noticeable, but my hair slowly continued receding.
    I am guessing you may be in this cycle of massive shed, and any treatment would need to be adjusted for results in comparison.  One of the hair supplement companies said it was like a car rolling down hill, massive energy to stop the car, a whole other matter to push it back up the hill.
   I will follow up on the calcification research with the quote about mites and sebum. A fairly gritty forum we are positing these days.

The demodex mite feeds on the hair bulb, follicle walls and sebum.  Calcification occurs when the mite feeds on the follicle, injuring the cell walls.  When the cells heal, a scar (calcification) occurrs.  Demodex brevis, which lives in the sebum gland, feeds on the walls of the sebum gland, producing more oil.  There is more information on my website, scalpskinworks.com.

I can’t help but wonder if extraction of follicle congestion might help to remove root calcification.  Calcification typically occurs when a foreign substance is present in the body.  Hardening, as of tissue, by such impregnation.  A calcified substance or part.  You should see the gel like mass that comes out of the follicle, not to mention the demodex mites. It’s down right ugly.
source http://www.worldhairloss.org/index.php/forums/viewthread/15

Clearly the ability to expel excess sebum is an advantage, and physically crushing the mites with a plastic bottle or strong finger pressure sounds very advantageous.  It is an interesting article, as it talks about rats being subjected to  “DHT” in this particular case stands for Dihydrotachysterol not dihydrotestosterone. The point being that the rats eventually had new calcification on the  hair follicle tissue from a mild crush skin injury; with or without the DHT injection.
  My thought is that there is already years of this calcification on my hair cells and breaking up the crystals, deep flexing the capillary walls, and increased blood flow, along with detox and elimination of oils that prevent skin oxidation are worth the risk.  I am pretty sure healthy skin can repel small injury small level calcification. Like I said before, if there was a way to stop hair growth with tapping or massage , it would be a popular alternative to waxing, or at least a documented effect. If I am totally wrong with my deep treatment, at least I supplied the evidence to consider it's risk.
 Most skin impact injuries so not result in baldness but normal hair growth in healthy skin. I have carried heavy back packs (or book bags) daily, a few times heavy enough to literally cut into my skin , as do many postal workers.  My shoulders are plenty hairy as do mail carriers report. Boxing is not known to result in bald chests or bodies or no beard growth from being punched or training to take punches.

Very interesting, thanks again

It's interesting what you say about the shed, yes, I'm 24.

My head feels nice and hot after a good DT session though, more blood can't hurt.  Just worried about crushing my blood vessels or something with this amount of force, or doing DT for too long every day (used to do well over an hour), but that's misplaced worry I'm sure.

Also, I carried massively overweight backpacks too, and the thick hair on my shoulders/back almost perfectly follows the straps  Very Happy The rest of my back isn't really hairy at all

Looking forward to updates!

EDIT:  Oh also, about the link, could that "gel like substance" be what I experienced being released from my scalp that I described as "sticky glue-like substance"?

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Re: detumescence really works.

Post  cdto2012 on Wed Oct 28, 2015 10:53 am

Sebum is known to be a sticky substance, and is shown in skin diagrams to be stored in the skin in reserves. I think there are plenty of guys that share the fast shed in the 20's story.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/102121-clear-sebum-pores/

 Thinking about why calcium would be at elevated levels after a skin injury, it now makes sense to me.
"The Clotting Process
Whenever your skin becomes broken, the sticky platelets contained in the blood form clots to stop blood flow. Calcium works together with vitamin K and a protein called fibrinogen in the clotting cascade. "
http://www.livestrong.com/article/144138-calcium-blood-clotting/
    "This study helps to explain earlier research that was conducted at the Imperial College School of Medicine in London, which identified calcium’s key role in healing injuries to the skin. This research lead to the inclusion of calcium in wound dressings, although it was not understood at the time how calcium played a role in the later stages of healing, no less its instrumental role in preventing infection of the wound."
"the research team found that a burst of calcium occurs before damaged cells activate an enzyme in the cells called DUOX, which is responsible for creating hydrogen peroxide. The tissues synthesize hydrogen peroxide in order to attract white blood cells that fight against infection. At this point, the damaged tissue begins the process of clotting and forms the new cells that will repair the injury."
https://www.multivitaminguide.org/blog/calcium-can-help-heal-faster/

  SO of course any crushing wound would demand elevated levels of calcium in the area to clot capillary bruising, stimulate immune response, and create any necessary fibrotic scarring.   Bruising does not usually make scars that last below the skin. These would be like blood clots and are temporary, new cells are made.
  The assumption that the elevated calcuim is a permanent addition to the bruised area is not what the rat studies showed. They just showed the common knowledge that calcium is used to heal wounds.  The whole point of derma rolling , needling, laser combs is that they injure the skin. The healing response is what grows new cells,  increases bloodflow and nutrient delivery. The cleanup and healing response is very powerful for regeneration. Just like a scar, eventually it normally goes away, fading more every day.
  If damaging the skin was super bad for hair growth grafts would never work. The doner hair is cut in a thousand pieces, left sitting on ice, then inserted into puncture wounds. That is double injury barrier.  Most guys including myself report extra hair growth around the puncture wounds, like shaved skin hair regrowth,  but more intense.
   In the case of MPB reduced blood flow creates inflammation,  bed sores are caused by long term oxygen deprivation.  Basically the theory is that the balding scalp deposits the calcium because it is inflammed,  or being attacked by parasite mites . The calcium is moved into the area,  but never removed due to poor circulation, or constant injury by the mites.
'The demodex mite feeds on the hair bulb, follicle walls and sebum.  Calcification occurs when the mite feeds on the follicle, injuring the cell walls.  When the cells heal, a scar (calcification) occurrs.  Demodex brevis, which lives in the sebum gland, feeds on the walls of the sebum gland, producing more oil."
  Tea tree oil is the recommended treatment for these mites at 50% solution.
I should report that I have developed or made clear a very visible network of veins that visibly protrude out during deep massage. In the beginning it was only my frontal temples that had 2 clear veins that showed. Now there is a network of them that run across my entire upper scalp. Fortunately they return to being unnoticeable after the massage. I can only guess that the removal of plaque and calcium from the veins has opened them up for more volume delivery. Also that there is a demand for this blood might mean that the smaller capillaries are also opening up to feed and clean the hair follicles. Perhaps it is just that they expand like when getting an injection and they tap for a vein to protrude. Either way it is a good sign as my skin becomes more flexable. Also I do not get a redness of the skin or any bruising that is visible.
During my exercise walk I did a 30 minute hand massage today with pinching. I was surprised that my skin did not get sticky. When I got home on my bicycle I noticed no veins were sticking out either. I did 5 minutes of harder bottle massage and in 5 minutes the sticky came out, and the veins protruded.
For John Doe , I kind of said this before, but I think your thinning shed started before you went on minoxidil over a year ago. I think your stage of aggressive mid 20's normal shed is the source of the consistent shed. I think that if you stopped all treatments today, your shed would continue at 30+ hairs a day for the next few years. I say this so you can think about what you have at risk, and can isolate treatment healthy shed from the balding progression if untreated. It is a tough time to realize the speed that hairloss takes place at a young age, and that very few people have been able to alter this course. I hope for your success.

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Re: detumescence really works.

Post  johndoe1225 on Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:08 am

Thanks again cd

But I won't quit, especially since I experienced many of the phenomena of DT as the original Hong Kong study mentioned, I flattened my rock hard widow's peak, loosened my scalp, expelled a ton of grease and sebum...

I wonder if there would be any harm in doing a light kneading massage for a few hours every day, not counting DT. That might be my next move.

I have a lot of dead skin on my temples, I might do an acid peel simple because it's so disgusting to see how much dead skin there is.

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Re: detumescence really works.

Post  long hair on Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:47 am

thank you so much cdto 2012 for good quality information and links ..the lady sounds very logical on what she said about demodex mite, specially when she said she use a microscop to see this thing in a real time at the opening of the hair follicales ...i found the picture... be carfull it looks ugly



that realy scary ...it is unbleivable this thing is living in our skin...now we have to find a way to attack this sh!t hard Twisted Evil
this guy here talking about clearing this demon .. i didnt read it yet but i will do in a next few hours.
http://www.demodexclear.com/
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Re: detumescence really works.

Post  johndoe1225 on Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:29 am

long hair wrote:thank you so much cdto 2012 for good quality information and  links ..the lady sounds very logical on what she said about demodex mite, specially when she said she use a microscop to see this thing in a real time at the opening of the  hair follicales ...i found the picture... be carfull it looks ugly



that realy scary ...it is unbleivable this thing is living in our skin...now we have to find a way to attack this sh!t hard Twisted Evil
this guy here talking about clearing this demon .. i didnt read it yet but i will do in a next few hours.
http://www.demodexclear.com/

I wonder if Apple Cider Vinegar spraying could help?

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Post  long hair on Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:53 am

i already use white vinegar for 2 month now but even if we get rid of this thing how much time our scalp/follicles will take to come back to the normal size?
also the lady can use her microscop to test how vinegar will affect on this parasites Idea .so we must keep cheking that forum.

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Re: detumescence really works.

Post  TNT on Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:25 am

i was on DT for almost six months and my hair was getting thicker, but when i shave my head i saw two huge wrinkles and it was awful. I was scared and i stopped DT. Does anyone else has notice that?

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Re: detumescence really works.

Post  cdto2012 on Thu Oct 29, 2015 10:04 pm

Tea tree oil is what is highly recommended at 50% concentrate diluted in another oil.
http://rosacea-support.org/just-how-do-you-kill-demodex-mites.html

   I also wasted no time. I mixed 100% tea tree with virgin olive oil 50-50 . I am not sure that vinegar at 5% acetic acid has the absorption to reach the mites when they are hiding in the pores , but it is a recommended treatment.
http://www.edennuganics.co.uk/apple-cider-vinegar-rosacea-ax-28/

  Wow found a must read ( or skim highlights ) of a science/ government publication article on the mites. They really spell it out about hair loss and the mites. I will share a few of the highlights.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3884930/
 "Demodex, a genus of tiny parasitic mites that live in or near hair follicles of mammals... Infestation with Demodex is common; prevalence in healthy adults varying between 23-100%  "
   "  AGA = Androgenetic alopecia
It has been proposed that inflammation reaction in AGA is confined to the surrounding area of sebaceous glands and infundibulum, and follicular infiltration with activated T cells results in induced synthesis of collagen by dermal sheath fibroblasts and ultimately replacement of hair follicle with fibrosis takes place  "

  Basically they say that the inflammation from the chewing and dead body of the mites in the pores activates the immune T- cells to build up collagen and fibrosis killing the hair growth. Inflammation alters hormones (perhaps DHT sensitivity, as DHT makes hair grow in the rest of the body parts) .  Also the irritation makes more oil and sebum production leading to a better habitat for more mites.
The article also mentions " Dissecting folliculitis"  basically where the hair just falls out from something like a bacterial infection.

     "due to low sebum production, infants and children lack significant Demodex colonization ....The number of Demodex mites present in the lesion increases with age.The prevalence of infestation with Demodex mites is highest in the 20-30 years age group, when the sebum secretion rate is at its highest. Older people are also more likely to carry the mites.  "
   They say that children carry very few mites, and the number incenses as sebum secretion is at it's peak in the 20-30 years age group. I think  they say older people usually have the mites, but not as many as the 20-30 year olds, as sebum production is reduced in older people.
   Wow this sure sounds like the cycle of mid 20's fast shed balding that I have been talking about .  Then my hairloss in my 35-45 years was much slower with very few times that I noticed hair loss on a daily basis.
  I still wonder if a strong massage flushes out and crushes a % of these mites.  Or if physically flushing  the scalp of excess sebum can reduce their numbers.  To really get rid of them is a major lifestyle commitment. To manage them seems reasonable, they do not seem to make women lose most of their hair.  I wonder if the MPB is DHT related to make guys produce too much/more sebum, and the mites follow.  
  It seems that DHT is either the cause of more sebum, or the increased sebum stimulates DHT reactions,  but it seems that men generally produce more sebum and it is hormonally controlled.
https://www.google.com/search?q=dht+sebum+production&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
  The other factor that was also mentioned in the article was the response of the immune system. This is the reaction of the body to the mites, bacteria, human dead cells, etc.  Basically, some of the answer to the fibrosis and selective hairloss may reside in how the body treats invaders that try to enter the scalp bloodstream so close to the brain. The article says that it is the immune system (t-cells) that deposit the fibrosis, this is like building a scar or isolation tumor to seal off the hair follicle to prevent the constant invasion of parasites and bacteria.
 The article is long and scientific,  but sure was valuable to my understanding.

I am going to go a little over the rainbow here and present something that came to mind. It seems that dog mange is caused by a very similar mite.
" It may surprise you to know that demodectic mites of various species live on the bodies of virtually every adult dog and most human beings"
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+2101&aid=729
The treatment that Edgar Cayce gave for baldness was Pennsylvania Crude Oil. I always wondered about that. Some have claimed that it worked for them.
https://www.google.co.th/search?q=edgar+cayce+baldness+crude&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=mSkyVu6tHYG_0ATpkYSYBQ
Pure crude oil is different than processed oil with detergents and other poisons added. I have heard of people, and I know first hand of painting their dog's mange with used motor oil, and have seen it heal the mange. It is not a good idea, as the toxins of the oil are many.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?153480-Mange-Cure-Dunk-dog-in-used-motor-oil
The line of thinking is that many other oils are used to kill the mites as common remedies. The sulphur is common in motor oil and soaps to treat scabies. Actually mineral oil, vasoline, petrolanthium, liquid paraffin, parrifin oil, are all petroleum extracts and very bad for the skin and body .
http://beautyeditor.ca/2014/10/16/petroleum-mineral-oil-skin-products
Ok so a better cure that is used to cure mange that I think can be used on humans also is hydrogen peroxide and borax (borax soap).
http://www.earthclinic.com/pets/dog_mange_cure.html
Veterinary science is well developed to deal with parasites. Humans that eat pork mostly have trichinosis parasites, but doctors almost never test for parasites as the cause of problems in humans. In veterinary medicine, de worming , and testing and treating parasites is central to the science. Even from the info on mange, it is well known that mange causes hairloss. How many people look at a bald person and think, those pesky mites got another one ?



Last edited by cdto2012 on Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:56 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: detumescence really works.

Post  johndoe1225 on Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:16 am

cdto2012 wrote:Tea tree oil is what is highly recommended at 50% concentrate diluted in another oil.
http://rosacea-support.org/just-how-do-you-kill-demodex-mites.html

   I also wasted no time. I mixed 100% tea tree with virgin olive oil 50-50 . I am not sure that vinegar at 5% acetic acid has the absorption to reach the mites when they are hiding in the pores , but it is a recommended treatment.
http://www.edennuganics.co.uk/apple-cider-vinegar-rosacea-ax-28/

  Wow found a must read ( or skim highlights ) of a science/ government publication article on the mites. They really spell it out about hair loss and the mites. I will share a few of the highlights.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3884930/
 "Demodex, a genus of tiny parasitic mites that live in or near hair follicles of mammals... Infestation with Demodex is common; prevalence in healthy adults varying between 23-100%  "
   "  AGA = Androgenetic alopecia
It has been proposed that inflammation reaction in AGA is confined to the surrounding area of sebaceous glands and infundibulum, and follicular infiltration with activated T cells results in induced synthesis of collagen by dermal sheath fibroblasts and ultimately replacement of hair follicle with fibrosis takes place  "

  Basically they say that the inflammation from the chewing and dead body of the mites in the pores activates the immune T- cells to build up collagen and fibrosis killing the hair growth. Inflammation alters hormones (perhaps DHT sensitivity, as DHT makes hair grow in the rest of the body parts) .  Also the irritation makes more oil and sebum production leading to a better habitat for more mites.
The article also mentions " Dissecting folliculitis"  basically where the hair just falls out from something like a bacterial infection.

     "due to low sebum production, infants and children lack significant Demodex colonization ....The number of Demodex mites present in the lesion increases with age.The prevalence of infestation with Demodex mites is highest in the 20-30 years age group, when the sebum secretion rate is at its highest. Older people are also more likely to carry the mites.  "
   They say that children carry very few mites, and the number incenses as sebum secretion is at it's peak in the 20-30 years age group. I think  they say older people usually have the mites, but not as many as the 20-30 year olds, as sebum production is reduced in older people.
   Wow this sure sounds like the cycle of mid 20's fast shed balding that I have been talking about .  Then my hairloss in my 35-45 years was much slower with very few times that I noticed hair loss on a daily basis.
  I still wonder if a strong massage flushes out and crushes a % of these mites.  Or if physically flushing  the scalp of excess sebum can reduce their numbers.  To really get rid of them is a major lifestyle commitment. To manage them seems reasonable, they do not seem to make women lose most of their hair.  I wonder if the MPB is DHT related to make guys produce too much/more sebum, and the mites follow.  
  It seems that DHT is either the cause of more sebum, or the increased sebum stimulates DHT reactions,  but it seems that men generally produce more sebum and it is hormonally controlled.
https://www.google.com/search?q=dht+sebum+production&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
  The other factor that was also mentioned in the article was the response of the immune system. This is the reaction of the body to the mites, bacteria, human dead cells, etc.  Basically, some of the answer to the fibrosis and selective hairloss may reside in how the body treats invaders that try to enter the scalp bloodstream so close to the brain. The article says that it is the immune system (t-cells) that deposit the fibrosis, this is like building a scar or isolation tumor to seal off the hair follicle to prevent the constant invasion of parasites and bacteria.
 The article is long and scientific,  but sure was valuable to my understanding.
 



Interesting what you say about the oils, I use Sage's topical which probably does at the very least something.

About DT, I think I'm going to see how it works if I decrease the time to 10 minutes 3 times a day.

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Re: detumescence really works.

Post  cdto2012 on Fri Oct 30, 2015 2:26 am

Hi, I edited in more about the oils into my last post. My new measure of an effective massage is to see the blood vessels bulge. This only takes about 5 minutes with the pressure I use. I am still thinking that I may be dealing with a fibrotic scarred tissue, so may continue with the long hard massages in the areas that are not as flexible to the pinch. I do not even have redness, so I think I am in safe limits and am only seeing positive results so far.

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Re: detumescence really works.

Post  johndoe1225 on Fri Oct 30, 2015 6:35 am

cdto2012 wrote:Hi,  I edited in more about the oils into my last post.  My new measure of an effective massage is to see the blood vessels bulge. This only takes about 5 minutes with the pressure I use.  I am still thinking that I may be dealing with a fibrotic scarred tissue, so may continue with the long hard massages in the areas that are not as flexible to the pinch. I do not even have redness, so I think I am in safe limits and am only seeing positive results so far.

Yeah, it seems my problem areas are mostly nice and loose now and the rest of my scalp is definitely not as loose

EDIT:  It seems that most of the people who have the best results with this (including JD Moyer) spend the minimum amount of time on it, I'm going to have to try that.  Stretch and pull, pinch, knead, I wish Choy would elaborate on this! I find that two hands give a much better stretch to the skin than one hand with a few fingers.

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Re: detumescence really works.

Post  long hair on Fri Oct 30, 2015 11:07 pm

TNT wrote:i was on DT for almost six months and my hair was getting thicker, but when i shave my head i saw two huge wrinkles and it was awful. I was scared and i stopped DT. Does anyone else has notice that?

you mean thos dark lines ..it will disappear in a few days if you stoped DT ..it is not scary at all.
but if you ment excessive skin then this thing i don't know about and it did'nt happened to me.
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