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What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  spawnben on Tue Aug 09, 2016 10:37 am

john3333 wrote:
spawnben wrote:Was Durianrider a hairloss man? Because I didn't find any picture of him with a real hairloss situation Laughing

I know vegan people who loses hair as well, so is raw and vegan style a real solution?

Without eggs and fishes and seefoods I don't eat meat. I don't eat cheese. I don't drink milk. I don't eat carb without carb from fruits and fresh vegetable. W
I cook only vegetables like mushroom.
I've never used to drink or smoke.
I do sport 3 or 4 times per week for around 1h30.

So is it because of fishes and seafoods that I'm losing hairs? confused
Yes.
Animal protein causes aging of the body and hair follicle

Research on fish consumption

There's endless research of the dangers of meat consumption.
It's studies like these that make me doubt the Ray Peat diet. Especially this one
But Asians eat fishes and seefoods and they don't lose more hairs than Western.
Japan has more hair loss problems than South Korea even though they are really close for food and lifestyle.
And just recently the number of Korean men who have hair loss problems start to increase.

Some vegans are bald even though they don't eat meat. In the opposite way, we can see a lot of carnivorous men who still have huge hairs.
I used to read comments from Durianrider and not everybody who tried his diet got back hairs! And almost aren't losing hairs.

I agree industrial food, milk products, meats and pollution foods from the sea aren't good for human body, but nothing proves that the opposite is true.

Only fishes could be responsible about my hair loss affraid Why Polynesians aren't bald? To see Tahitians or Maoris without hairs is as much complicated as find gold in a supermarket... and they eat low cost rice and a lot of products from the sea.

NB: My sister is vegan but she's a diffuse hair loss.  My brother eats everything, smokes and drinks everyday and in the opposite he has so much hairs that he has to cut twice per month.

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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  john3333 on Tue Aug 09, 2016 11:02 am

spawnben wrote:
john3333 wrote:
spawnben wrote:Was Durianrider a hairloss man? Because I didn't find any picture of him with a real hairloss situation Laughing

I know vegan people who loses hair as well, so is raw and vegan style a real solution?

Without eggs and fishes and seefoods I don't eat meat. I don't eat cheese. I don't drink milk. I don't eat carb without carb from fruits and fresh vegetable. W
I cook only vegetables like mushroom.
I've never used to drink or smoke.
I do sport 3 or 4 times per week for around 1h30.

So is it because of fishes and seafoods that I'm losing hairs? confused
Yes.
Animal protein causes aging of the body and hair follicle

Research on fish consumption

There's endless research of the dangers of meat consumption.
It's studies like these that make me doubt the Ray Peat diet. Especially this one
But Asians eat fishes and seefoods and they don't lose more hairs than Western.
Japan has more hair loss problems than South Korea even though they are really close for food and lifestyle.
And just recently the number of Korean men who have hair loss problems start to increase.

Some vegans are bald even though they don't eat meat. In the opposite way, we can see a lot of carnivorous men who still have huge hairs.
I used to read comments from Durianrider and not everybody who tried his diet got back hairs! And almost aren't losing hairs.

I agree industrial food, milk products, meats and pollution foods from the sea aren't good for human body, but nothing proves that the opposite is true.

Only fishes could be responsible about my hair loss affraid Why Polynesians aren't bald? To see Tahitians or Maoris without hairs is as much complicated as find gold in a supermarket... and they eat low cost rice and a lot of products from the sea.

NB: My sister is vegan but she's a diffuse hair loss.  My brother eats everything, smokes and drinks everyday and in the opposite he has so much hairs that he has to cut twice per month.
Asians don't eat as much fish as you're led to believe. In Japan it's common for them to eat a single meal of rice alone with zero fish. Here's how the Okinawans eat
http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2015-04-06-1428343907-9524763-1949jpokokokodiet.png
They eat extremely low amounts of fish and that's why they're healthier than the Japanese. They also have thicker and healthier hair.
Here's Kama Chinen from Okinawa, Japan.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/bd/Kama_Chinen.jpg/280px-Kama_Chinen.jpg
She has kept most of her hairs even at the ripe age of 114 because of her diet extremely high in carbohydrates and extremely low in protein and fat.
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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  jadegreg on Tue Aug 09, 2016 10:02 pm

While you are entitled to your POV, john3333, your statements are simple not based in any fact. I can assure you, having spent considerable time in Okinawa and Japan, that the Okinawans do eat considerable amounts of protein. However, they eat far more shellfish, and crustaceans than their mainland counterparts, and eat more locally sourced fish species than the Japanese. The Okinawans, like the Chinese, who influenced their culture, have a serious love affair with pork, and many of their traditional dishes involve pork, and fatty cuts of pork at that i.e. Nibuta. Maybe, whilst not as meat-centric as the West perhaps, they do have a more balanced diet, with respect to meat/fish than those 1949 figures suggest......(actually as suggested by the 1989 figures)

Perhaps it's their focus on locally grown, organically produced/sourced foods, that is key to their overall healthiness from diet..........having said that they do love their SPAM....

Greg

Edit: A cursory glance on Pubmed, suggests a somewhat confused picture pertaining to Okinawa currently. More recent studies have suggested that Okinawa is no healthier than mainlaind, with similar indices for stroke and heart disease (though still healthier than rest of the world!!). Additionally, a number of studies indicate that Okinawan diets are richer in protein and 'healthy' fats than their mainland counterparts, though conversely a more recent study, by primarily Western authors in a well-respected journal, and who have no interest in marketing their book whatsoever, suggests that benefits of Okinawan diet are from low calorie/glycemic index vegetables and fruit, with high polyphenol/flavonoid content.......so take your pick basically. Seriously though, you cannot go to far wrong with a 'nutritionally' rich, colourful, balanced diet....


Last edited by jadegreg on Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:37 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Updated research)

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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  john3333 on Wed Aug 10, 2016 2:16 am

jadegreg wrote:While you are entitled to your POV, john3333, your statements are simple not based in any fact. I can assure you, having spent considerable time in Okinawa and Japan, that the Okinawans do eat considerable amounts of protein. However, they eat far more shellfish, and crustaceans than their mainland counterparts, and eat more locally sourced fish species than the Japanese. The Okinawans, like the Chinese, who influenced their culture, have a serious love affair with pork, and many of their traditional dishes involve pork, and fatty cuts of pork at that i.e. Nibuta. Maybe, whilst not as meat-centric as the West perhaps, they do have a more balanced diet, with respect to meat/fish than those 1949 figures suggest......(actually as suggested by the 1989 figures)

Perhaps it's their focus on locally grown, organically produced/sourced foods, that is key to their overall healthiness from diet..........having said that they do love their SPAM....

Greg

Edit: A cursory glance on Pubmed, suggests a somewhat confused picture pertaining to Okinawa currently. More recent studies have suggested that Okinawa is no healthier than mainlaind, with similar indices for stroke and heart disease (though still healthier than rest of the world!!). Additionally, a number of studies indicate that Okinawan diets are richer in protein and 'healthy' fats than their mainland counterparts, though conversely a more recent study, by primarily Western authors in a well-respected journal, and who have no interest in marketing their book whatsoever, suggests that benefits of Okinawan diet are from low calorie/glycemic index vegetables and fruit, with high polyphenol/flavonoid content.......so take your pick basically. Seriously though, you cannot go to far wrong with a 'nutritionally' rich, colourful, balanced diet....
I posted the Okinawans diet from 1949 because that's the diet the centenarians grew up on. If the centenarians grew up on the diet you saw when you went to Okinawa, they would die at 70. Okinawans actually eat high glycemic index foods like white rice. Meat has zero polyphenols/flavonoids/benefits. A nutritionally rich diet would be one that is low in "healthy fats" like oil, or extra high in leafy vegetables to compensate for the oil.
I believe that humans should eat the way their ancestors did as frugivores according to Michael Greger
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wx0pOGVMntM
Michael Greger's research destroys Ray Peat and Mark Sisson. Sorry, but science is fact over opinion.
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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  jadegreg on Wed Aug 10, 2016 2:47 am

Accepted, the centenarians would have been on the diet in the 1949, according to that one study. Additionally, as you rightly point out, I did not stay or associate with this group of Okinawans, so I cannot say with any certainty, what was consumed in their homes on a daily basis. However, I'm still not sure a diet from 1949, would truly be reflective of the typical Okinawan diet, given that the situation there would have barely corrected from WW2.

A number of studies or reports, still indicate that protein intake in these 'healthy' Okinawans is higher than the mainland Japanese, additionally, with much lower levels of rice consumption (high glycemic), and a greater proportion of 'purple' sweet potato consumption (low glycemic). Actually, what I found surprising, according to these reports, is the higher legume content of their diet, compared to the Japanese, given I was offered edamame, miso, natto and azuki fairly continuously on the mainland. There seemed to barely a sniff of these in Okinawa. Nearly all this is suggested by 'Okinawan Diet' authors, who would possibly be more in line with a vegetable/fruit dominant diet, and clearly state this. They believe the key to the increased longevity is the lower calorific content of the Okinawan diet compared to the Japanese, and the consuming of beta-carotene/polyphenol/ flavonoid rich vegetables, which are mainly  not carbohydrate rich......

Cheers

Greg

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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  john3333 on Wed Aug 10, 2016 3:00 am

jadegreg wrote:Accepted, the centenarians would have been on the diet in the 1949, according to that one study. Additionally, as you rightly point out, I did not stay or associate with this group of Okinawans, so I cannot say with any certainty, what was consumed in their homes on a daily basis. However, I'm still not sure a diet from 1949, would truly be reflective of the typical Okinawan diet, given that the situation there would have barely corrected from WW2.

A number of studies or reports, still indicate that protein intake in these 'healthy' Okinawans is higher than the mainland Japanese, additionally, with much lower levels of rice consumption (high glycemic), and a greater proportion of 'purple' sweet potato consumption (low glycemic). Actually, what I found surprising, according to these reports, is the higher legume content of their diet, compared to the Japanese, given I was offered edamame, miso, natto and azuki fairly continuously on the mainland. There seemed to barely a sniff of these in Okinawa. Nearly all this is suggested by 'Okinawan Diet' authors, who would possibly be more in line with a vegetable/fruit dominant diet, and clearly state this. They believe the key to the increased longevity is the lower calorific content of the Okinawan diet compared to the Japanese, and the consuming of beta-carotene/polyphenol/ flavonoid rich vegetables, which are mainly  not carbohydrate rich......

Cheers

Greg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mryzkO5QWWY
Here's all the studies on Okinawa in one video. This low protein, high carbohydrate diet will make your hair follicles live to 100.
Seventh-day Adventists live even longer than Okinawans because they eat less animal protein. Meat causes nutrient deficiencies.
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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  jadegreg on Wed Aug 10, 2016 3:04 am

While I respect your POV in believing humans were frugivores, there are a number of alternate scientific theories, in addition to actual evidence that support early humans were primarily faunivores, though clearly with an omnivorous bent towards vegetables and fruit forming part of the diet. I honestly believe that going 'frugivorous' for a while can certainly help with detoxing and a number of health issues, but with all respect, I don't think I can honestly agree with the assertion that we were ever 'wholly' frugivorous as a species.

I'll have a look at the video. Thanks for posting that.

By the way, love the Avatar........does she have a name?

All the best

Greg

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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  john3333 on Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:10 am

You're having trouble understanding that high carbohydrate diets are antioxidant.
On another note, I've been doing a ton of research on semen which is rarely discussed on this forum. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3144892/
This is an interesting study that helps us understand the correlation between AGA and low sperm counts.
Spermidine is a panacea.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semen#Human_semen
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spermidine#Uses
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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  Vlaj on Wed Aug 10, 2016 11:15 am

Where can we find Spermidine supplements?

"Its supplementation increases lifespan and resistance to stress, and decreases the occurrence of age-related pathology and loss of locomotor ability." https://www.karger.com/Article/FullText/356748

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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  spawnben on Wed Aug 10, 2016 11:20 am

But many countries now believe that carbs are dangerous for the body Embarassed

If I eat only fruits every day, I'll lose muscles, I'll have troubles on my skin and more important I'll get fat.
When I eat less fruits, a lot of vegetables and some good oil from olive or something like almond, etc... I don't get fat, I don't have troubles on my skin.

Even though I'm not a native I found this => ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18451774
It looks like Atkins diet or any kind of ketogenic diet or Paleo diet is good for body. No?

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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  iuyyighghghgkh on Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:15 am

john3333 wrote:
spawnben wrote:Was Durianrider a hairloss man? Because I didn't find any picture of him with a real hairloss situation Laughing

I know vegan people who loses hair as well, so is raw and vegan style a real solution?

Without eggs and fishes and seefoods I don't eat meat. I don't eat cheese. I don't drink milk. I don't eat carb without carb from fruits and fresh vegetable. W
I cook only vegetables like mushroom.
I've never used to drink or smoke.
I do sport 3 or 4 times per week for around 1h30.

So is it because of fishes and seafoods that I'm losing hairs? confused
Yes.
Animal protein causes aging of the body and hair follicle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwJASNFy9XQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcIkhffzrkk
This video is worrisome for Peatarians
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aFxzAZdv7Y
Research on fish consumption
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urgl8odDF_Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OC2iwQcfZwA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I60O474F_GI
There's endless research of the dangers of meat consumption.
EDIT:Honestly protein, especially that of animals, causes cancer. Unless you're 70+ years old you don't need more than 40g of protein a day. Protein will make your hair fall out.


Have you read ray peat's work ?

protein from steak (tryptophan, cysteine, methionine) cause problems

protein from gelatin, bone broth and liver ( taurine, glycine, proline, beta alanine also known as carnosine) improve health and longevity

lowering the amount of tryptophan, cysteine, methionine improves lifespan better than calorie restriction

beta alanine is the most taken supplement on longecity, but it is actually very similar to taurine and glycine in its action

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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  john3333 on Fri Aug 12, 2016 5:59 am

Give us an example of your average breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  iuyyighghghgkh on Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:22 am

some fruit, greek yoghurt

cheese, tortilla chips, or jackson's chips (not sold in the UK so I stopped buying them)

coffee, with some chocolate, rice cracker chocolate biscuit

maybe some meat and white rice in coconut oil.

tortilla chips with liver

ice cream as a snack .homemade gelatin too (no longer doing this)


see "hair loss options" , I discuss the main diets and ones that will help and ones that are damaging. that thread contains some good info for beginners.


this article discusses the science of the amino acids in foods, which ones are good and bad
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/gelatin.shtml

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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  Maverick70 on Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:31 am

iuyyighghghgkh wrote:some fruit, greek yoghurt

cheese, tortilla chips, or jackson's chips (not sold in the UK so I stopped buying them)

coffee, with some chocolate, rice cracker chocolate biscuit

maybe some meat and white rice in coconut oil.

tortilla chips with liver

ice cream as a snack .homemade gelatin too (no longer doing this)


see "hair loss options" , I discuss the main diets and ones that will help and ones that are damaging. that thread contains some good info for beginners.


this article discusses the science of the amino acids in foods, which ones are good and bad
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/gelatin.shtml

What coffee topical do you recommend?

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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  iuyyighghghgkh on Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:38 am

none

just caffeine powder in a mist spray, make it yourself, at about 4%

4% of 60ml is 2400mg powder . It actually has great benefits for the skin anyway.

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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  Maverick70 on Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:40 am

iuyyighghghgkh wrote:none

just caffeine powder in a mist spray, make it yourself, at about 4%

4% of 60ml is 2400mg powder . It actually has great benefits for the skin anyway.

Have you tried solban?

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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  Maverick70 on Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:42 am

iuyyighghghgkh wrote:none

just caffeine powder in a mist spray, make it yourself, at about 4%

4% of 60ml is 2400mg powder . It actually has great benefits for the skin anyway.

How frequently do you use it?

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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  iuyyighghghgkh on Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:43 am

I used to use it. I think the aspirin interferes too much

Better to make your own.

You can just spray it on your scalp 2-3 times a day, pure caffeine.

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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  Maverick70 on Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:45 am

iuyyighghghgkh wrote:I used to use it. I think the aspirin interferes too much

Better to make your own.

You can just spray it on your scalp 2-3 times a day, pure caffeine.

Thank you. Would you consider adding other stuff into your current topical like for example rosemary oil (shown to be as effective as minoxidil 2%) or would you just leave the topical as pure coffee?

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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  iuyyighghghgkh on Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:59 am

maybe in a separate bottle

a 60ml bottle of jojoba oil would need 1.2ml of rosemary oil to be 2 per cent strength

I generally avoid oils anyway




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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  john3333 on Sat Aug 13, 2016 12:11 pm

The major sources of fiber in a Ray Peat diet would be fruit, carrot, potatoes. It's probably possible to get enough if you eat enough fruit and potatoes though.
It's weird how some people like the Japanese seem to eat a low fiber diet though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc_CncVcJK8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUyi3UfzBYI
Michael Greger is NOT biased.
No wonder he recommends cascara sagrada! In fact, a large group of Peatarians take this herb to relieve themselves of constipation with some worrisome side effects.
https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/cascara-sagrada-good-sources.414/
https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/why-does-cascara-sagrada-magnesium-irritate-my-butthole.8719/
If I went on the Peat diet I'd get colon cancer after a few years.The Ray Peat diet has the same amount of fiber as the SAD(Standard American Diet). It is often said that coconut oil is a laxative, but I don't trust that.
Fiber isn't the only essential nutrient they're deficient in. He recommends a lot of processed foods like white rice, coconut oil, sugar and orange juice which are lower in vitamins and minerals than their unprocessed forms. Coconut oil and sugar have zero micronutrients. At the same time he shuns NUTRIENT DENSITY. Leafy vegetables are the most nutrient dense food.
This diet will not work for androgenic alopecia, I promise you.
Edit: I was right. Japan and Korea has one of the highest rates of colon cancer in the planet. Low fiber diets kill. These rice diets cause colon cancer. There's low colon cancer rates in Latin America, where they eat tons of legumes and heart healthy whole grains like corn. Avocadoes are common in Latin America. They have beneficial phytoantioxidants for the hair follicle.
Don't believe everything you read from Ray Peat, Mark Sisson, or William Davis. These people who advocate ketogenic, paleolithic, or peatarian diets have no clue about health. Vegan diets will help you regrow sexier hair.
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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  iuyyighghghgkh on Sun Aug 14, 2016 2:14 am

animal foods are the most nutrient dense

Liver is the most nutrient dense food known

No diet will regrow hair, only change the quality and reduce the shedding.

I've slowly moved away from those ideas and moved more into Maliniak method

living on spirulina, moringa, avocadoes and wheatgrass will cause hair loss. don't forget the seaweed. and inedible sprouts

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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  spawnben on Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:06 am

God I used to eat seaweed everyday affraid

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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  john3333 on Sun Aug 14, 2016 10:13 am

iuyyighghghgkh wrote:animal foods are the most nutrient dense

Liver is the most nutrient dense food known

No diet will regrow hair, only change the quality and reduce the shedding.

I've slowly moved away from those ideas and moved more into Maliniak method

living on spirulina, moringa, avocadoes and wheatgrass will cause hair loss. don't forget the seaweed. and inedible sprouts
This is true. There is more to hair than diet. Sleep and exercise are important. I'm trying to recover from sleep deprivation which has caused my hairloss and what I called "hairloss-induced loneliness". Feeling fatigued by evening and spiraling down to loneliness was caused by my sleep deprivation, not my fading beauty. If anybody could tell me any good forums for the discussion or articles of neurogenesis and neuroplasticity, I'd really appreciate it. It's hard to focus in the evening.I'm still doing some scalp exercises for my hair too.
I'm also going to be looking into SuperMeat so I don't get deficiencies.
http://supermeat.com/
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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  iuyyighghghgkh on Sun Aug 14, 2016 11:35 am

so why promote veganism if your hair loss was caused by sleep and exhaustion ?

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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

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