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What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  iuyyighghghgkh on Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:19 pm

yes, perhaps

although the caffeine in cacao paste may not even be that high

see the topiclas in my signature'

caffeine/niacin would also enhance any other topical, for example, rejuveplex


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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  ElmoSuper8 on Sat Jul 11, 2015 9:30 am

[quote="iuyyighghghgkh"]
ElmoSuper8 wrote:but a 60ml mist tube, add in 1g of aspirin powder, 1g caffeine powder,4g niacin powder.
optional extra : 15% ethanol for absorption.
distilled water
done

Hi, Is Salicylic Acid Powder the same thing as Aspirin powder. I mean if I wanted to make this topical would this product be what I'm after? -

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300g-of-Pharma-Grade-Salicylic-Acid-Powder-Acne-Dandruff-Dermatitis-Wart-/161174077733?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2586b94125

Where do you buy your caffeine powder and niacin powder?

Thanks


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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  bov51 on Sat Jul 11, 2015 9:44 am

Dt def doesn't work, you can put that down

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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  iuyyighghghgkh on Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:55 am

unfortunately salicylic acid powder is difficult to work with,

perhaps just use caffeine/niacin topical, and consider aspirin as optional

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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  bov51 on Sat Jul 11, 2015 3:30 pm

Beef liver should be on the list, its one of the best food for hair, loads of nutrients.

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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  ElmoSuper8 on Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:52 pm

iuyyighghghgkh wrote:unfortunately salicylic acid powder is difficult to work with,

perhaps just use caffeine/niacin topical, and consider aspirin as optional

Hi, why is salicylic acid powder difficult to work with?

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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  iuyyighghghgkh on Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:05 am

makes me cough

may not dissolve in water

may not be as effective as aspirin powder


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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  ElmoSuper8 on Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:25 am

iuyyighghghgkh wrote:makes me cough

may not dissolve in water

may not be as effective as aspirin powder


Ok and where do you get your caffeine and niacin powders?

Did you get any regrowth along the frontal hairline from using the Idealabs Solban?

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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  iuyyighghghgkh on Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:04 pm

Yes, I did get frontal regrowth.

I use solban

I use ribose dissolved in water on the face. it may work on hair too.

And use a niacin/water combo on the face, but noticed it doesn't always work because the niacin doesn't dissolve.
Sometimes it does. I don't understand why this happens.

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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  ElmoSuper8 on Wed Jul 15, 2015 12:54 am

iuyyighghghgkh wrote:Yes, I did get frontal regrowth.

I use solban

I use ribose dissolved in water on the face. it may work on hair too.

And use a niacin/water combo on the face, but noticed it doesn't always work because the niacin doesn't dissolve.
Sometimes it does. I don't understand why this happens.

Why do you use niacin and ribose on your face? And where do you get your aspirin, caffeine, and niacin powders?

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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  iuyyighghghgkh on Wed Jul 15, 2015 2:06 am

solban is pre-made by someone, see my sig. i don't buy caffeine/aspirin powders.

niacin, just open a capsule and rub on hair and face, or whatever. it's simple enough. bought off amazon

dissolve ribose in a spray bottle and apply to hair and face.

look at this from 2008, ribose helped man regrow hair. but it would work topically too

http://i.imgur.com/UabCdmb.png

why ? because caffeine/niacin/ ribose increase mitochondria, and help hair

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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  bov51 on Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:41 am

iuyyighghghgkh wrote:
And use a niacin/water combo on the face, but noticed it doesn't always work because the niacin doesn't dissolve.
Sometimes it does. I don't understand why this happens.


You used this for clearer skin? does it work?

The reason why your niacin doesn't dissolve is because its not pure, that's why, had the same problem with my other brand of niacimide. check out http://www.toxinless.com/niacinamide

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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  Growdamnit on Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:18 am

What brand is your niacin? Where do you get caffeine to be topical?

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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  Columbo on Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:04 am

"Dermal benefits of topical D-ribose

Our aging skin undergoes changes with reductions in collagenous and elastic fibers, fibroblasts, mast cells, and macrophages with free radical production, which can result in reduced skin tone and wrinkle formation. Fibroblasts are important for dermal integrity and function with a decrease in function producing less skin tone, thinning, and wrinkle formation. Dermal levels of adenosine triphosphate (ATP) decline with aging, potentially altering dermal function. Supplemental D-ribose, a natural occurring carbohydrate, enhances ATP regeneration. D-ribose-based studies demonstrated benefits in both cell culture fibroblastic activities and a subsequent clinical study in women with decreased skin tone with wrinkles. Supplemental D-ribose may offer this needed cellular benefit."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3047922/

If going that route then topical mag also seems worth pursuing. Carnitine and CoQ10, would they work topically??

"Mitochondria require each of the “awesome foursome” to generate ATP. While CoQ10 and L-carnitine are fundamental to the ATP recycling process, D-ribose is necessary for de novo ATP synthesis. Metaphorically, D-ribose helps fill the body’s gas tank while L-carnitine and CoQ10 help the body convert fuel to energy. Literally, D-ribose is a structural component of the ATP molecule, and L-carnitine and CoQ10 help recycle ATP by transporting fatty acids across mitochondrial membranes and shuttling electrons back and forth between enzymes, respectively. Co-Q10 then acts as an antioxidant to protect mitochondrial membranes from free-radical damage. Like a spark plug central to both processes, magnesium “turns on” the enzymes that drive the entire metabolic reaction."

If all four of those could be absorbed topically that would seem like one heck of a punch and super optimised cell energy function.

(Think I'm gonna tweak my diet based on the "awesome foursome" too. Though I don't see where I'll be able to get meaningful amounts of carnitine each day unless I eat steak every day.)
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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  Columbo on Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:20 am

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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  iuyyighghghgkh on Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:41 am

bogv51 wrote:
You used this for clearer skin? does it work?

The reason why your niacin doesn't dissolve is because its not pure, that's why, had the same problem with my other brand of niacimide. check out http://www.toxinless.com/niacinamide

thank you. that should explain it. i used it to plump the skin up. it's like botox says one reviewer.



Growdamnit wrote:What brand is your niacin? Where do you get caffeine to be topical?

now foods capsules. I think capsules have unwanted contaminants. your second question makes no sense.
look in my signature. someone pre makes it with caffeine/aspirin/niacin.


Columbo wrote:"Dermal benefits of topical D-ribose

If going that route then topical mag also seems worth pursuing. Carnitine and CoQ10, would they work topically??

If all four of those could be absorbed topically that would seem like one heck of a punch and super optimised cell energy function.

(Think I'm gonna tweak my diet based on the "awesome foursome" too. Though I don't see where I'll be able to get meaningful amounts of carnitine each day unless I eat steak every day.)

in theory yes.

lysine converts to carnitine though.

they have not been proven to topically regrow hair though. only niacin and caffeine really have.

also, use niacin/caffeine as a carrier/enhancer. for example, in rejuveplex.

anything good for mitochondria and ATP = good for hair, as a general rule. Niacin would be the simplest and cheapest.

topical coq10 could certainly work in theory, but I am not sure it does. niacin/caffeine are better for hair.

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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  bov51 on Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:34 pm

iuyyighghghgkh wrote:solban is pre-made by someone, see my sig. i don't buy caffeine/aspirin powders.

How long does the solban last you

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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  ElmoSuper8 on Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:24 pm

bogv51 wrote:
iuyyighghghgkh wrote:solban is pre-made by someone, see my sig. i don't buy caffeine/aspirin powders.

How long does the solban last you

That was my concern, I cant see that Solban bottle lasting long unless it is only used on the hairline and temples, that's why I wanted to make some.

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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  Growdamnit on Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:46 am

I ordered the solban, now explain to me why these ingredients would grow my hairline?

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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  iuyyighghghgkh on Thu Jul 16, 2015 2:06 am

Growdamnit wrote:I ordered the solban, now explain to me why these ingredients would grow my hairline?

they interact with pgd2, perhaps reducing it, perhaps

also, the caffeine will stimulate follicles, and you can actually feel the niacin work on the scalp.

obviously combine with a good diet, awareness of how your body interacts with things, self experimentation, etc

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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  Gates on Thu Jul 16, 2015 3:11 am

I believe there have been many varied applications of aspirin attempted over the years at different forums, none of which have had miracle effects. The same goes for both niacin and caffeine.

Logic would point to the fact that combining these things together into one liquid would probably not have miracle effects either unless some typ eof synergy occurs.

The ingredient combination actually poses other questions. Poster above said that the supplement works to block PGD2. This would certainly apply to the COX inhibition via aspirin. However, the nicotinic acid content has the opposite effect, it increases PGD2.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2475889

So this seems a bit like cutting yourself for the sake of applying a bandaid.

Anything that boosts circulation will increase prostaglandins. This is one reason why you can "feel" these things working. And just to point out that the subjective feeling of something "working" doesn't really mean much.

If you want to prove this to yourself, go take 2-3 g of beta alanine and give it 20 minutes. This amino acid will cause you to itch (skin pin-prick type feelings). You could easily perceive this is the supplement working...but what does that mean at the end of the day? Its not regrowing hair. I take a combination of beta alanine, citrulline, arginine, and niacin regularly. It gets your blood flowing like crazy w/ a full-body effect. What it does not do is regrow hair.

Perhaps if you were to argue that the key is increasing circulation, and that the aspirin content is used to mitigate the prostaglandin synthesis while getting the beneficial effects of the increased blood flow. But I doubt it. I don't mean to shit on anyone's parade here, but the ingredients in this supplement have a long history in hair loss and not-a-one of them have been magic. Sure many of these ingredients have had clinical results in mice and in highly controlled conditions (many substances have), but that more-often-that-not doesn't translate to the practical application of these things outside of a lab.

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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  Columbo on Thu Jul 16, 2015 4:05 am

iuyyigh, I'm surprised you're not all over some form of red light therapy (e.g. LLLT)

empirical evidence / studies? check
anecdotal evidence? check
works at the cellular / energy level? check
peat approved? check

I'm giving it a crack and ordered an OMG laser helmet with 400 diodes. Quite pricey, but fuck it. If it helps, far cheaper than a hair transplant.

"Red light works because the body’s tissue can absorb this type of light at a cellular level, converting it to cellular energy (known as ATP). Many studies have shown that this energy accelerates activity in the mitochondria (the part of the cell that generates protein, collagen, and healing materials) as well as improving blood flow in the area being treated, speeding healing and minimizing pain."
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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  Columbo on Thu Jul 16, 2015 4:08 am

Gates wrote:I believe there have been many varied applications of aspirin attempted over the years at different forums, none of which have had miracle effects. The same goes for both niacin and caffeine.

Logic would point to the fact that combining these things together into one liquid would probably not have miracle effects either unless some typ eof synergy occurs.

The ingredient combination actually poses other questions. Poster above said that the supplement works to block PGD2. This would certainly apply to the COX inhibition via aspirin. However, the nicotinic acid content has the opposite effect, it increases PGD2.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2475889

So this seems a bit like cutting yourself for the sake of applying a bandaid.

Anything that boosts circulation will increase prostaglandins. This is one reason why you can "feel" these things working. And just to point out that the subjective feeling of something "working" doesn't really mean much.

If you want to prove this to yourself, go take 2-3 g of beta alanine and give it 20 minutes. This amino acid will cause you to itch (skin pin-prick type feelings). You could easily perceive this is the supplement working...but what does that mean at the end of the day? Its not regrowing hair. I take a combination of beta alanine, citrulline, arginine, and niacin regularly. It gets your blood flowing like crazy w/ a full-body effect. What it does not do is regrow hair.

Perhaps if you were to argue that the key is increasing circulation, and that the aspirin content is used to mitigate the prostaglandin synthesis while getting the beneficial effects of the increased blood flow. But I doubt it. I don't mean to shit on anyone's parade here, but the ingredients in this supplement have a long history in hair loss and not-a-one of them have been magic. Sure many of these ingredients have had clinical results in mice and in highly controlled conditions (many substances have), but that more-often-that-not doesn't translate to the practical application of these things outside of a lab.

I don't think we know enough about the mechanisms

Is it the inflammatory effects?
Is it the cellular energy effects?
Is it some other mechanism?

One thing that seems key though is topical vs internal seems like it could be important.
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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  iuyyighghghgkh on Thu Jul 16, 2015 4:40 am

Columbo wrote:iuyyigh, I'm surprised you're not all over some form of red light therapy (e.g. LLLT)

empirical evidence / studies? check
anecdotal evidence? check
works at the cellular / energy level? check
peat approved? check

I'm giving it a crack and ordered an OMG laser helmet with 400 diodes. Quite pricey, but fuck it. If it helps, far cheaper than a hair transplant.

"Red light works because the body’s tissue can absorb this type of light at a cellular level, converting it to cellular energy (known as ATP). Many studies have shown that this energy accelerates activity in the mitochondria (the part of the cell that generates protein, collagen, and healing materials) as well as improving blood flow in the area being treated, speeding healing and minimizing pain."

I agree

it works. absolutely.

all the things I have mentioned so far increase atp too.

just too expensive, and , I didn't want to reccomend something I have not tried.

what are the cheapest but effective laser solutions ?

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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

Post  Columbo on Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:01 am

These guys have 54 diode unit that looks good, you could hold on each spot for 20 mins. Prob take an hour or so for full coverage. Obviously less convenient that doing the whole lot in one go but much cheaper. 3 units cobbled together would be a decent solution, and not too pricey:

http://www.vlasyproject.com/

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LLLT-Laser-hair-re-growth-treatment-with-more-power-than-ANY-hair-regrowth-combs-/261584769907?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3ce7aad373
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Re: What doesn't work and does work - a rewrite

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