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Bad Posture Correction

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Bad Posture Correction

Post  MikeGore on Fri Sep 11, 2015 7:36 am

Bad Posture, Ugly Abs, Weak Look
For along time I've notice that my ab area seems like it bulges out. The thing is I am not fat or anything. In fact I am of small build. Average height. I've always had bad posture. My abs are kinda visible but why does it look like I'm bulging in the waist area. It's hard to describe this in words since there is no name for it. But basically I see people who have flat abs, flat back, upright posture. Basically they look more aligned somehow, whereas my body looks like weak, even though I do work out and am not fat. What can I do to get that wall like look on my back, and flatten my abs (is that even possible?). Thanks. I can relate to the hollow back look. I was going to post a pic better detailing my situation but some genius put a limit on who can do that so I guess I can show it to you. http://70sbig.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Posture-Pics.gif

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Re: Bad Posture Correction

Post  iuyyighghghgkh on Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:30 am

vitamin k2 ?

http://www.naturalheightgrowth.com/2013/07/13/increase-height-and-grow-taller-using-vitamin-k2-aka-menaquinone/


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Re: Bad Posture Correction

Post  MikeGore on Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:24 am

MikeGore wrote:Bad Posture, Ugly Abs, Weak Look
For along time I've notice that my ab area seems like it bulges out. The thing is I am not fat or anything. In fact I am of small build. Average height. I've always had bad posture. My abs are kinda visible but why does it look like I'm bulging in the waist area. It's hard to describe this in words since there is no name for it. But basically I see people who have flat abs, flat back, upright posture. Basically they look more aligned somehow, whereas my body looks like weak, even though I do work out and am not fat. What can I do to get that wall like look on my back, and flatten my abs (is that even possible?). Thanks. I can relate to the hollow back look. http://70sbig.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Posture-Pics.gif

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Re: Bad Posture Correction

Post  Maverick70 on Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:08 pm

MikeGore wrote:Bad Posture, Ugly Abs, Weak Look
For along time I've notice that my ab area seems like it bulges out. The thing is I am not fat or anything. In fact I am of small build. Average height. I've always had bad posture. My abs are kinda visible but why does it look like I'm bulging in the waist area. It's hard to describe this in words since there is no name for it. But basically I see people who have flat abs, flat back, upright posture. Basically they look more aligned somehow, whereas my body looks like weak, even though I do work out and am not fat. What can I do to get that wall like look on my back, and flatten my abs (is that even possible?). Thanks. I can relate to the hollow back look. I was going to post a pic better detailing my situation but some genius put a limit on who can do that so I guess I can show it to you. http://70sbig.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Posture-Pics.gif

Broo, I got the same problem as you, I have been diagnosed with scoliosis as well. I am trying to find a solution for it as well, I thought it was because I was genetically predisposed to have more body fat in that area but now it makes sense that it might be a posture problem. I am going to save some money to get some atlas adjustments as well as some jaw alignment treatment, those two are highly correlated to posture.

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Re: Bad Posture Correction

Post  MikeGore on Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:28 pm

Seems like that line that I removed got quoted. Please ignore the picture limit genius remark I had made. I posted this same post on a bodybuilding forum and just copied my post. That website limits file and links in posts. So its not directed at IH website, and definitely not CS whom I really respect and think is a real genius.

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Re: Bad Posture Correction

Post  manofmanytrades on Mon Sep 14, 2015 6:42 am

I had that same issue and corrected it... Tried PT, typically that pattern is credited to tight low back or tight psoas causing hips to hinge forward. For me this benefit was limited-chiropractic corrected the posture (especially those that specialize in atlas correction, ie a cervical chiro) but subluxations would return and the posture would collapse again. The subluxations returned because of tight fascia and/or ligament laxity. Fascial planes run head to toe giving us our form, and don't respond to same soft tissue techniques as muscles. Myofascial release as taught by john barnes helped 're-pattern' the fascia for me some, but I plateaued with that... Graston therapy (by a practitioner that went deeper than most) revealed I still had fibrosis in the surface fascia; this was further corrected with active release technique (ART) that breaks adhesions in the deeper fascia. My posture was descent at this point. I had prolotherapy in several more difficult areas. With these therapies the removal of stubborn 'scar tissue' (ie fibrosis locking soft tissue together) my adjustments held and PT was successful with maintenance. I doubt you'd need all that...I was a particularly difficult case. Try what you need and if you sense you're plateauing with one, move onto another. I wasted a lot of money continuing therapies that became only marginally helpful. I'd say that ART and prolotherapy were the most helpful for me, with ART being significantly cheaper. A logical place to start would be physical therapy exercises...they sometimes very simply work, and you can find them online. Try 2-3 weeks and see if its adequate for you. Any bodywork you do, find a good practitioner (with a lot of certifications), even if it costs more. Rolfing, trigger point therapy, and cupping also purport to work on fascia. I found them not as helpful, don't believe they mechanically break or remodel the tissue like the others. For any bodywork you have done it is important to have low levels of inflammation in the body and take key tissue rebuilding nutrients (vit c, silica, hyaluronic acid, glutamine, msm, quality fish oil). Tissue broken down due to natural remodeling/exercise that tries to repair in the presence of inflammation is unable to heal correctly in a timely manner, leading to the disorganized fibrotic patterns that gave you the posture problem in the first place.

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Re: Bad Posture Correction

Post  CausticSymmetry on Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:12 am

Of interest on this topic, two things come to mind.

(1) There seems to be a relationship between Scoliosis and Male Pattern Baldness, at least from a genetic perspective

a). http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0071771

b). http://neurogenetics.qimrberghofer.edu.au/papers/Hillmer2008NatGenet.pdf

This involves the locus 20p11 and possibly MTHFR.

(2)

From a non-genetic perspective, there is a certain type of Chiropractic technique that can resolve these related posture problems...

What has intrigued me the most is the adjusting/fixing this problem improve detoxification.

So this maybe more epigenetic than genetic or perhaps both.

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Re: Bad Posture Correction

Post  sanderson on Mon Sep 14, 2015 9:04 am

bad posture increases cortisol
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Re: Bad Posture Correction

Post  Maverick70 on Mon Sep 14, 2015 10:02 am

CausticSymmetry wrote:Of interest on this topic, two things come to mind.

(1) There seems to be a relationship between Scoliosis and Male Pattern Baldness, at least from a genetic perspective

a). http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0071771

b). http://neurogenetics.qimrberghofer.edu.au/papers/Hillmer2008NatGenet.pdf

This involves the locus 20p11 and possibly MTHFR.

(2)

From a non-genetic perspective, there is a certain type of Chiropractic technique that can resolve these related posture problems...

What has intrigued me the most is the adjusting/fixing this problem improve detoxification.

So this maybe more epigenetic than genetic or perhaps both.

Wow this is so interesting man! Thank you so much for this. What is that chiropractic technique that you are talking about?

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Re: Bad Posture Correction

Post  Changexpert on Mon Sep 14, 2015 11:40 am

manofmanytrades wrote:I had that same issue and corrected it...  Tried PT, typically that pattern is credited to tight low back or tight psoas causing hips to hinge forward.  For me this benefit was limited-chiropractic corrected the posture (especially those that specialize in atlas correction, ie a cervical chiro) but subluxations would return and the posture would collapse again.  The subluxations returned because of tight fascia and/or ligament laxity.  Fascial planes run head to toe giving us our form, and don't respond to same soft tissue techniques as muscles.  Myofascial release as taught by john barnes helped 're-pattern' the fascia for me some, but I plateaued with that... Graston therapy (by a practitioner that went deeper than most) revealed I still had fibrosis in the surface fascia; this was further corrected with active release technique (ART) that breaks adhesions in the deeper fascia.  My posture was descent at this point.  I had prolotherapy in several more difficult areas.  With these therapies the removal of stubborn 'scar tissue' (ie fibrosis locking soft tissue together) my adjustments held and PT was successful with maintenance.  I doubt you'd need all that...I was a particularly difficult case.  Try what you need and if you sense you're plateauing with one, move onto another.  I wasted a lot of money continuing therapies that became only marginally helpful. I'd say that ART and prolotherapy were the most helpful for me, with ART being significantly cheaper.  A logical place to start would be physical therapy exercises...they sometimes very simply work, and you can find them online.  Try 2-3 weeks and see if its adequate for you.  Any bodywork you do, find a good practitioner (with a lot of certifications), even if it costs more.  Rolfing, trigger point therapy, and cupping also purport to work on fascia.  I found them not as helpful, don't believe they mechanically break or remodel the tissue like the others.  For any bodywork you have done it is important to have low levels of inflammation in the body and take key tissue rebuilding nutrients (vit c, silica, hyaluronic acid, glutamine, msm, quality fish oil).  Tissue broken down due to natural remodeling/exercise that tries to repair in the presence of inflammation is unable to heal correctly in a timely manner, leading to the disorganized fibrotic patterns that gave you the posture problem in the first place.  

Holy cow... There are so many technical terms that I have not even heard of in this response. I have had bad postures for all my life and started going to chiropractic to correct my posture about 6 months ago. My posture is definitely better, but far from perfect. Fixing posture is no easy feat unfortunately. As manofmanytrades mentioned, just going to chiropractors 2-3 times a week is not going to get you anywhere in the long term. A lot of people with bad posture have very weak core. I thought my core was pretty strong after 8 years of working out, but I've only focused on doing crunches and leg raises, neglecting oblique and sides. Also, rowing helps, but it's not sufficient. I am still trying out different exercises and stretches to correct my posture, so I cannot say definitively what is the most crucial factor in correcting postures.

FWIW, I find back hyperextension most helpful in strengthening muscles I need. I have anterior pelvic tilt (hip rolling forward) with forward head tilt. My shoulder is a little rounded, forming a slight kyphosis.
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Re: Bad Posture Correction

Post  alphadelta on Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:39 pm

CausticSymmetry wrote:Of interest on this topic, two things come to mind.

(1) There seems to be a relationship between Scoliosis and Male Pattern Baldness, at least from a genetic perspective

a). http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0071771

b). http://neurogenetics.qimrberghofer.edu.au/papers/Hillmer2008NatGenet.pdf

This involves the locus 20p11 and possibly MTHFR.


does anyone know what relevant genes are at the locus 20p11 that could affect MPB?

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Re: Bad Posture Correction

Post  4039 on Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:53 pm

Changexpert wrote:
manofmanytrades wrote:I had that same issue and corrected it...  Tried PT, typically that pattern is credited to tight low back or tight psoas causing hips to hinge forward.  For me this benefit was limited-chiropractic corrected the posture (especially those that specialize in atlas correction, ie a cervical chiro) but subluxations would return and the posture would collapse again.  The subluxations returned because of tight fascia and/or ligament laxity.  Fascial planes run head to toe giving us our form, and don't respond to same soft tissue techniques as muscles.  Myofascial release as taught by john barnes helped 're-pattern' the fascia for me some, but I plateaued with that... Graston therapy (by a practitioner that went deeper than most) revealed I still had fibrosis in the surface fascia; this was further corrected with active release technique (ART) that breaks adhesions in the deeper fascia.  My posture was descent at this point.  I had prolotherapy in several more difficult areas.  With these therapies the removal of stubborn 'scar tissue' (ie fibrosis locking soft tissue together) my adjustments held and PT was successful with maintenance.  I doubt you'd need all that...I was a particularly difficult case.  Try what you need and if you sense you're plateauing with one, move onto another.  I wasted a lot of money continuing therapies that became only marginally helpful. I'd say that ART and prolotherapy were the most helpful for me, with ART being significantly cheaper.  A logical place to start would be physical therapy exercises...they sometimes very simply work, and you can find them online.  Try 2-3 weeks and see if its adequate for you.  Any bodywork you do, find a good practitioner (with a lot of certifications), even if it costs more.  Rolfing, trigger point therapy, and cupping also purport to work on fascia.  I found them not as helpful, don't believe they mechanically break or remodel the tissue like the others.  For any bodywork you have done it is important to have low levels of inflammation in the body and take key tissue rebuilding nutrients (vit c, silica, hyaluronic acid, glutamine, msm, quality fish oil).  Tissue broken down due to natural remodeling/exercise that tries to repair in the presence of inflammation is unable to heal correctly in a timely manner, leading to the disorganized fibrotic patterns that gave you the posture problem in the first place.  

Holy cow... There are so many technical terms that I have not even heard of in this response. I have had bad postures for all my life and started going to chiropractic to correct my posture about 6 months ago. My posture is definitely better, but far from perfect. Fixing posture is no easy feat unfortunately. As manofmanytrades mentioned, just going to chiropractors 2-3 times a week is not going to get you anywhere in the long term. A lot of people with bad posture have very weak core. I thought my core was pretty strong after 8 years of working out, but I've only focused on doing crunches and leg raises, neglecting oblique and sides. Also, rowing helps, but it's not sufficient. I am still trying out different exercises and stretches to correct my posture, so I cannot say definitively what is the most crucial factor in correcting postures.

FWIW, I find back hyperextension most helpful in strengthening muscles I need. I have anterior pelvic tilt (hip rolling forward) with forward head tilt. My shoulder is a little rounded, forming a slight kyphosis.

Two great posts which really hits the mark, including the fibrosis created by bad posture, the importance of strengthening and stretching fascia and even correct supplements.

Yeah, most people I see suffer from pelvic tilt (and overall weak lower back and abs) forward head and shoulder posture and overall unstable rotator cuffs. I was personally able to reverse my scoliosis with years of hard work and exercise. And yes fixing your posture will increase your energy and potential hair volume, decrease overall stress and make you look more aesthetically appealing.

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Re: Bad Posture Correction

Post  manofmanytrades on Wed Sep 16, 2015 2:48 pm

Agree on the core muscles exercises, those are really key for posture.

Fascia has some interesting properties recently discovered...used to be considered 'packing material' in the body, its now found to be innervated-reportedly 4.5 x more than the rest of the nervous system many musculoskeletal aches and pains should probably be attributed more to fascia than muscles. There are still a lot of unknowns about the capabilities of fascia movement and ability to transmit cellular information. What really surprised me is that I had gone through several years of professionally directed detox, nutrition, supplements for calcification, and various forms of bodywork and massage. A graston practitioner simply scraping a tool over the tissue caused redness in some of the areas but not others, the areas that turned red correlated with areas id felt pain. Their tenant is that the 'petechia' are areas of surface cross linked fibers that are being mechanically broken apart. Active release technique also works in a mechanical way on fascia layers within the muscle tissue; the tissue is held in place while the muscle is moved through a range of motion. This causes the fascia layers within the muscle to slide/glide, breaking old adhesions in the tissue. I had undergone scores of various types of massage and 'myofascial release' and trigger point treatments that werent able to do that, because while bloodflow is being stimulated, that isnt necessarily enough to remodel the tissue. It seems necessary to mechanically break the fibers...simply compressing the tissue and applying pressure in a direction wasnt enough. After breaking the tissue, stretching in the correct range of motion assures reallignment of the fibers as they heal. Some fascial holding patterns are quite deep and impossible to get with the mentioned techniques. Prolotherapy and prp injections can work on fascia by causing inflammation in the tissue that attracts large amounts of growth factor and new blood supply, helping with remodeling. This all got me thinking, since the galea is technically fascia, i wonder if that explains why many of the scalp massages help a little but not much? It might increase blood flow a few minutes, but if the scalp fascia has become tight or crosslinked for any reason (inflammation?) then it needs to be mechanically broken somehow, or blood flow through the fascial layer will continue to be choked (fascia has been measured to exert force up to 2000 psi). Ive heard about prp being used for hair regrowth but cant find much info on results either way, and wonder about using graston tools on the scalp??

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Re: Bad Posture Correction

Post  Changexpert on Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:27 am

manofmanytrades wrote:Agree on the core muscles exercises, those are really key for posture.

Fascia has some interesting properties recently discovered...used to be considered 'packing material' in the body, its now found to be innervated-reportedly 4.5 x more than the rest of the nervous system many musculoskeletal aches and pains should probably be attributed more to fascia than muscles.  There are still a lot of unknowns about the capabilities of fascia movement and ability to transmit cellular information.  What really surprised me is that I had gone through several years of professionally directed detox, nutrition, supplements for calcification, and various forms of bodywork and massage.  A graston practitioner simply scraping a tool over the tissue caused redness in some of the areas but not others, the areas that turned red correlated with areas id felt pain.  Their tenant is that the 'petechia' are areas of surface cross linked fibers that are being mechanically broken apart.  Active release technique also works in a mechanical way on fascia layers within the muscle tissue; the tissue is held in place while the muscle is moved through a range of motion.  This causes the fascia layers within the muscle to slide/glide, breaking old adhesions in the tissue.  I had undergone scores of various types of massage and 'myofascial release' and trigger point treatments that werent able to do that, because while bloodflow is being stimulated, that isnt necessarily enough to remodel the tissue.  It seems necessary to mechanically break the fibers...simply compressing the tissue and applying pressure in a direction wasnt enough.  After breaking the tissue, stretching in the correct range of motion assures reallignment of the fibers as they heal.  Some fascial holding patterns are quite deep and impossible to get with the mentioned techniques.  Prolotherapy and prp injections can work on fascia by causing inflammation in the tissue that attracts large amounts of growth factor and new blood supply, helping with remodeling.  This all got me thinking, since the galea is technically fascia, i wonder if that explains why many of the scalp massages help a little but not much? It might increase blood flow a few minutes, but if the scalp fascia has become tight or crosslinked for any reason (inflammation?) then it needs to be mechanically broken somehow, or blood flow through the fascial layer will continue to be choked (fascia has been measured to exert force up to 2000 psi).  Ive heard about prp being used for hair regrowth but cant find much info on results either way, and wonder about using graston tools on the scalp??

You bring up very interesting point about scar tissues. I suffered horribly from acne during my childhood, which left unwanted acne scars as a result. Treating acne scar is very difficult because scar tissues are tethered in the dermis layer. This is why merely dermarolling the epidermis surface is not good enough to correct acne scars. Usually, secondary protocol from a medical professional is required to untether the acne scar tissues. The technique used for this purpose is called subcision. Subcision can be a great asset if done by a well trained professional, but it is an invasive treatment, so the risk is quite high.

I believe same concept can be applied to scar tissues underneath the scalp. I am not sure if subcision for scalp is even possible as scalp tissues are much thinner and closer to the bone (skull). To untether the scar tissue, lateral force is required. An example of lateral force would be shaking the needle after it has been stabbed. However, this also leaves much more rooms for damaging the unscathed areas, which is why I think only medical professionals should be performing such protocols.
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Re: Bad Posture Correction

Post  MikeGore on Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:08 am

Thanks for responses. I think I may have the condition of hollow back terms lordosis. I want to fix this. I will probably go to a therapist that speciliazing in the treatment of lordosis. But I believe exercises is quite good too. Is it a good idea to do things such as swimming, yoga or weight lifting to strengthen back?

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Re: Bad Posture Correction

Post  4039 on Sat Oct 03, 2015 5:13 am

I'd say the single best exercise to improve poor posture is the shoulder dislocation, especially executed with proper technique.

By technique, I mean you should consistently be attempting to pull apart the pole (also can use exercise band, towel or rope) as hard as possible while behind the back and even in the front. Why? Because it helps to pull the scapula together and strengthen the back and rear delts across the entire range on two separate planes of motion. Nothing does a better job at reversing forward posture.

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Re: Bad Posture Correction

Post  MikeGore on Fri Dec 04, 2015 11:05 am

I don't get why the skin in my ab area is getting so flabby. Isn't it too young to worry about skin elasticity and flabbiness at 30? Please tell this isn't an age thing.

It's so frustrating when there isn't a simple definition to a problem or anyone who can check it out.

I feel like my abs are too forward, maybe even my internal organs in my lower trunk area of the body isn't even in the center of my body. LOL, is that even possible.

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