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Adenosine sides free altenatine to minoxidil

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Adenosine sides free altenatine to minoxidil

Post  H4ir on Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:01 am

For those of you who want a side-effects free alternative to minoxidil adenosine could be the answer. In the study comparing Adenosine to minoxidil they concluded "patients were significantly more satisfied with adenosine because of faster prevention of hair loss and appearance of the newly grown hairs". Adenosine or as you probably remember it from your Biology school days ATP is naturally found within humans, has no side effects and is a common additive to expensive anti wrinkle creams.

"According to the hypothesis on the stimulating effect of adenosine on increasing fibroblast growth factor 7 in dermal papilla cells and its vasorelaxant effect, we performed this study to compare the effect of topical minoxidil 5% and adenosine 0.75% on male pattern androgenetic alopecia. This prospective-randomized study recruited 110 male patients suffering from grade II-V Hamilton androgenetic alopecia. Fifty-five patients received minoxidil 5% (group 1) and adenosine 0.75% (group 2) each. Later, 16 patients were excluded due to allergic reactions or loss to follow up. After 3 and 6 months of treatment, complete and relative recovery rates alongside patient satisfaction rate (faster prevention of primary hair loss and appearance of newly grown hair) were compared between the groups. After 3 months of treatment, relative recovery was achieved in 2.4% and 1.9% of patients in group 1 and group 2, respectively, which was not significantly different (p=0.17). During 6 months, the relative recovery rate did not change either within or between the groups (p=0.99) and after 6 months none of the patients achieved complete recovery. However, the patient satisfaction rate was significantly higher in group 2 (p=0.003). In the light of the results, adenosine has no statistically superiority to minoxidil in the treatment of androgenetic alopecia according to recovery rates. However, the patients were significantly more satisfied with adenosine because of faster prevention of hair loss and appearance of the newly grown hairs. It seems further studies with larger sample size or different drug dosages are required to clarify the findings."


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Re: Adenosine sides free altenatine to minoxidil

Post  Biffy on Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:07 am

That's nothing new, I have started to use Adenosine - still have some eye twitching possibly because of vasolidation (same as with Minox), but for now no skin changes (no bloating or wrinkles).

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Re: Adenosine sides free altenatine to minoxidil

Post  Maines on Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:09 am

sounds interesting. anyone has a link to more user exepriences?

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Re: Adenosine sides free altenatine to minoxidil

Post  magic_gro on Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:17 pm

Isn't adenosine even more dangerous for the hearth?
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Re: Adenosine sides free altenatine to minoxidil

Post  NYJets on Tue Oct 20, 2015 12:37 am

Biffy wrote:That's nothing new, I have started to use Adenosine - still have some eye twitching possibly because of vasolidation (same as with Minox), but for now no skin changes (no bloating or wrinkles).

Which product do you use Biffy?
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Re: Adenosine sides free altenatine to minoxidil

Post  Biffy on Tue Oct 20, 2015 12:51 am

NYJets wrote:
Biffy wrote:That's nothing new, I have started to use Adenosine - still have some eye twitching possibly because of vasolidation (same as with Minox), but for now no skin changes (no bloating or wrinkles).

Which product do you use Biffy?

I just mix Adenosine powder in my own vehicle. Imo Adenosine is a great treatment.

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Re: Adenosine sides free altenatine to minoxidil

Post  NYJets on Tue Oct 20, 2015 1:15 am

Biffy wrote:
NYJets wrote:
Biffy wrote:That's nothing new, I have started to use Adenosine - still have some eye twitching possibly because of vasolidation (same as with Minox), but for now no skin changes (no bloating or wrinkles).

Which product do you use Biffy?

I just mix Adenosine powder in my own vehicle.  Imo Adenosine is a great treatment.

I concur. However, cost prohibitive when using shiseido's adenogen.

Considering your regimen, how do you know your concoction is working?
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Re: Adenosine sides free altenatine to minoxidil

Post  Biffy on Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:20 am

NYJets wrote:
Biffy wrote:
NYJets wrote:
Biffy wrote:That's nothing new, I have started to use Adenosine - still have some eye twitching possibly because of vasolidation (same as with Minox), but for now no skin changes (no bloating or wrinkles).

Which product do you use Biffy?

I just mix Adenosine powder in my own vehicle.  Imo Adenosine is a great treatment.

I concur. However, cost prohibitive when using shiseido's adenogen.

Considering your regimen, how do you know your concoction is working?

I had immediate improvement with Adenosine as I have stopped Minoxidil recently which really puts me in worst condition ever. With Ade I got less shed, vellus going longer and more pigmented, new hair on temples.

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Re: Adenosine sides free altenatine to minoxidil

Post  Maines on Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:19 am

biffy, where do you get the adonesin from, which vehicle do you use and how do you mix it. can you be a little more detailed?

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Re: Adenosine sides free altenatine to minoxidil

Post  Biffy on Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:15 am

Maines wrote:biffy, where do you get the adonesin from, which vehicle do you use and how do you mix it. can you be a little more detailed?

I got it from private hair forum. Atm I'm using it at 1%, higher could possibly yield better results will try that someday. For vehicle am using ethanol + distilled water + PG or sometimes DMSO.

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Re: Adenosine sides free altenatine to minoxidil

Post  Maines on Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:37 am

Biffy wrote:
Maines wrote:biffy, where do you get the adonesin from, which vehicle do you use and how do you mix it. can you be a little more detailed?

I got it from private hair forum. Atm I'm using it at 1%, higher could possibly yield better results will try that someday. For vehicle am using ethanol + distilled water + PG or sometimes DMSO.

thx. me and some others from a dif forum are looking to group buy adenosine. we want some w high purity, no filling materials. if anyone on here knows a good place to buy some, please let me know! Smile

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Re: Adenosine sides free altenatine to minoxidil

Post  magic_gro on Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:43 am

Maines wrote:
Biffy wrote:
Maines wrote:biffy, where do you get the adonesin from, which vehicle do you use and how do you mix it. can you be a little more detailed?

I got it from private hair forum. Atm I'm using it at 1%, higher could possibly yield better results will try that someday. For vehicle am using ethanol + distilled water + PG or sometimes DMSO.

thx. me and some others from a dif forum are looking to group buy adenosine. we want some w high purity, no filling materials. if anyone on here knows a good place to buy some, please let me know! Smile

@Maines: I'd be interested too, since I missed out on that GB in the same forum as @biffy. Over there it was $26 for 100g. Unbelievably cheap.
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Re: Adenosine sides free altenatine to minoxidil

Post  eldarlmari on Wed Oct 21, 2015 2:54 pm

1) Adenosine binds to 4 Adenosine receptors: A1, A2A, A2B, A3
2) A1 + A3 increases intracellular calcium and decreases cAMP via PKA(which is exactly what the EP2 and EP4 receptors increases when PGE2 binds to it)=> bad for hair
3) A2B receptor => FGF2, FGF7, IGF-1, VEGF upregulation => good for hair growth as long as the rate of differentiation doesnt exceed the rate of profileration[/b](which is exactly what we lack in AGA)
4) A2A => pro-fibrotic receptor. Dr Cotsarelis has mentioned the use of a A2A receptor antagonist in his patent.

"The signaling pathway that is inhibited in a method of the present invention is, in another embodiment, an adenosine A2a pathway. In another embodiment, the signaling pathway is any other signaling pathway known in the art."

"In another embodiment, the adenosine A2a pathway antagonist is a pharmaceutically acceptable salt of one of the above adenosine A2a pathway antagonists. In another embodiment, the adenosine A2a pathway antagonist is a related compound with adenosine A2a pathway antagonist activity
[0108]
In another embodiment, the adenosine A2a pathway antagonist an antagonist adenosine A2a receptor.
[0109]
In another embodiment, the adenosine A2a pathway antagonist is any other A2a pathway antagonist known in the art. Each adenosine A2a pathway antagonist represents a separate embodiment of the present invention. Each substituent in each position indicated above as having different substituents represents a separate embodiment of the present invention.
[0110]
In another embodiment, the adenosine A2a receptor that is antagonized is an ADORA2 receptor. In another embodiment, the adenosine A2a receptor is an RDC8 receptor. In another embodiment, the adenosine A2a receptor is an hA2aR receptor.
[0111]
In another embodiment, the sequence of the target adenosine A2a receptor is:
[0112]
MPIMGSSVYITVELAIAVLAILGNVLVCWAVWLNSNLQNVTNYFVVSLAAADIAVG VLAIPFAITISTGFCAACHGCLFIACFVLVLTQSSIFSLLAIAIDRYIAIRIPLRYNGLVTGTRAKGIIAIC WVLSFAIGLTPMLGWNNCGQPICEGKNHSQGCGEGQVACLFEDVVPMNYMVYFNFFACVLVPLL LMLGVYLRIFLAARRQLKQMESQPLPGERARSTLQKEVHAAKSLAIIVGLFALCWLPLHIINCFTFF CPDCSHAPLWLMYLAIVLSHTNSVVNPFIYAYRIREFRQTFRICIIRSHVLRQQEPFICAAGTSARVLA AHGSDGEQVSLRLNGHPPGVWANGSAPHPERRPNGYALGLVSGGSAQESQGNTGLPDVELLSHE LKGVCPEPPGLDDPLAQDGAGVS (SEQ ID No: 270). In another embodiment, the adenosine A2a receptor is a homologue of SEQ ID No: 270. In another embodiment, the adenosine A2a receptor is a variant of SEQ ID No: 270. In another embodiment, the adenosine A2a receptor is an isomer of SEQ ID No: 270. In another embodiment, the adenosine A2a receptor is a fragment of SEQ ID No: 270. In another embodiment, the adenosine A2a receptor comprises SEQ ID No: 270. Each possibility represents a separate embodiment of the present invention.
[0113]
In another embodiment, the sequence of the target adenosine A2a receptor is:
[0114]
MLLETQDALYVALELVIAALSVAGNVLVCAAVGTANTLQTPTNYFLVSLAAADVA VGLFAIPFAITISLGFCTDFYGCLFLACFVLVLTQSSIFSLLAVAVDRYLAICVPLRYKSLVTGTRAR GVIAVLWVLAFGIGLTPFLGWNSKDSATNNCTEPWDGTTNESCCLVKCLFENVVPMSYMVYFNF FGCVLPPLLEVILVIYIKIFLVACRQLQRTELMDHSRTTLQREIHAAKSLAMIVGIFALCWLPVHAVN CVTLFQPAQGKNKPKWAMNMAILLSHANSVVNPIVYAYRNRDFRYTFHKIISRYLLCQADVKSG NGQAGVQPALGVGL (SEQ ID No: 271). In another embodiment, the adenosine A2a receptor is a homologue of SEQ ID No: 271. In another embodiment, the adenosine A2a receptor is a variant of SEQ ID No: 271. In another embodiment, the adenosine A2a receptor is an isomer of SEQ ID No: 271. In another embodiment, the adenosine A2a receptor is a fragment of SEQ ID No: 271. In another embodiment, the adenosine A2a receptor comprises SEQ ID No: 271. Each possibility represents a separate embodiment of the present invention.
[0115]
In another embodiment, the adenosine A2a receptor has an AA sequence set forth in one of the following GenBank entries: BC025722, M97759, and BC013780. In another embodiment, the adenosine A2a receptor has a ‘nucleotide sequence set forth in one of the above GenBank entries. In another embodiment, the adenosine A2a receptor is a homologue of a sequence set forth in one of the above GenBank entries. In another embodiment, the adenosine A2a receptor is a variant of a sequence set forth in one of the above GenBank entries. In another embodiment, the adenosine A2a receptor is an isomer of a sequence set forth in one of the above GenBank entries. In another embodiment, the adenosine A2a receptor is a fragment of a sequence set forth in one of the above GenBank entries. In another embodiment, the adenosine A2a receptor comprises a sequence set forth in one of the above GenBank entries. Each possibility represents a separate embodiment of the present invention.
"

pointed this out here since i see so many adenosine-worshipping threads around.

And here's a double bad news(rather):

Minoxidil exerts its hair-growing effects partly by the Adenosine(A2B receptor) pathway. It stimulates the temporal growth spike that last for a couple of months before the newly-grown hair starts to shed due to the accelerated rate of differentiation.

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Re: Adenosine sides free altenatine to minoxidil

Post  magic_gro on Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:21 pm

Years ago, I tried Dermenodex (with a claimed 3% adenosine concentration) and it didn't do anything for me. So I've always been skeptical ever since. But now I see that people who got adenosine powder through group buys are super excited about their results. One guy claims he quit minoxidil cold turkey and switched to adenosine and got more gains. So that has got me interested.

eldarlmari wrote:1) Adenosine binds to 4 Adenosine receptors: A1, A2A, A2B, A3
2) A1 + A3 increases intracellular calcium and decreases cAMP via PKA(which is exactly what the EP2 and EP4 receptors increases when PGE2 binds to it)=> bad for hair
3) A2B receptor => FGF2, FGF7, IGF-1, VEGF upregulation => good for hair growth as long as the rate of differentiation doesnt exceed the rate of profileration[/b](which is exactly what we lack in AGA)
4) A2A => pro-fibrotic receptor. Dr Cotsarelis has mentioned the use of a A2A receptor antagonist in his patent.

Can you please provide quotes and/or citations for the above points?

pointed this out here since i see so many adenosine-worshipping threads around.

There are many things that may not make sense, like for example the fact that topical, low-concentration finasteride works. Yet, there are studies that show exactly that. It goes against the very way I understand Finasteride is supposed to work, but...

Likewise, or rather just the opposite way, if there are studies and anecdotes that are in contradiction, I try to keep an open mind. Studies aren't infallible. Researchers aren't necessarily always correct and/or honest.

In the case of adenosine, the thing is so unbelievably cheap that I am only worried that it might be dangerous. Not to the follicle, but to one's general health. And what I tend to be skeptical about is its purported complete lack of sides. For example - I wonder - won't it have some effect on the heart?


And here's a double bad news(rather):

Minoxidil exerts its hair-growing effects partly by the Adenosine(A2B receptor) pathway. It stimulates the temporal growth spike that last for a couple of months before the newly-grown hair starts to shed due to the accelerated rate of differentiation.

Again, quotes and sources if you can please find the time.

Btw, FWIW, I never experienced any shed while on minoxidil. And I went on and off minoxidil a few times, always quitting cold turkey like most people are scared to death to do, and taking long breaks (months/years) before getting back on it. I understand that for you this will be purely anecdotical, but for me it was a first-hand experience. And my first hand experience makes me a bit skeptical towards this statement that minoxidil induces a short-lives growth spike that is followed by a shed a couple of months later. Given I might be special, I would be very happy to see your source for this. And I am also curious about what you refer to as the accelerated rate of differentiation. Are we talking about stem cells?

Thank you!
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Re: Adenosine sides free altenatine to minoxidil

Post  eldarlmari on Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:21 pm

magic_gro wrote:Years ago, I tried Dermenodex (with a claimed 3% adenosine concentration) and it didn't do anything for me. So I've always been skeptical ever since. But now I see that people who got adenosine powder through group buys are super excited about their results. One guy claims he quit minoxidil cold turkey and switched to adenosine and got more gains. So that has got me interested.

eldarlmari wrote:1) Adenosine binds to 4 Adenosine receptors: A1, A2A, A2B, A3
2) A1 + A3 increases intracellular calcium and decreases cAMP via PKA(which is exactly what the EP2 and EP4 receptors increases when PGE2 binds to it)=> bad for hair
3) A2B receptor => FGF2, FGF7, IGF-1, VEGF upregulation => good for hair growth as long as the rate of differentiation doesnt exceed the rate of profileration[/b](which is exactly what we lack in AGA)
4) A2A => pro-fibrotic receptor. Dr Cotsarelis has mentioned the use of a A2A receptor antagonist in his patent.

Can you please provide quotes and/or citations for the above points?

pointed this out here since i see so many adenosine-worshipping threads around.

There are many things that may not make sense, like for example the fact that topical, low-concentration finasteride works. Yet, there are studies that show exactly that. It goes against the very way I understand Finasteride is supposed to work, but...

Likewise, or rather just the opposite way, if there are studies and anecdotes that are in contradiction, I try to keep an open mind. Studies aren't infallible. Researchers aren't necessarily always correct and/or honest.

In the case of adenosine, the thing is so unbelievably cheap that I am only worried that it might be dangerous. Not to the follicle, but to one's general health. And what I tend to be skeptical about is its purported complete lack of sides. For example - I wonder - won't it have some effect on the heart?


And here's a double bad news(rather):

Minoxidil exerts its hair-growing effects partly by the Adenosine(A2B receptor) pathway. It stimulates the temporal growth spike that last for a couple of months before the newly-grown hair starts to shed due to the accelerated rate of differentiation.

Again, quotes and sources if you can please find the time.

Btw, FWIW, I never experienced any shed while on minoxidil. And I went on and off minoxidil a few times, always quitting cold turkey like most people are scared to death to do, and taking long breaks (months/years) before getting back on it. I understand that for you this will be purely anecdotical, but for me it was a first-hand experience. And my first hand experience makes me a bit skeptical towards this statement that minoxidil induces a short-lives growth spike that is followed by a shed a couple of months later. Given I might be special, I would be very happy to see your source for this. And I am also curious about what you refer to as the accelerated rate of differentiation. Are we talking about stem cells?

Thank you!

lol. ok. Then i would also be happy that u just take all that i've said as broscience and self-anecdotals.

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Re: Adenosine sides free altenatine to minoxidil

Post  magic_gro on Thu Oct 22, 2015 5:10 am

eldarlmari wrote:lol. ok. Then i would also be happy that u just take all that i've said as broscience and self-anecdotals.

Well, no. You have been very specific and made statements on adenosine receptors that cannot be possibly inferred anecdotically.

You might have noticed I completely yanked away the patent you quoted in your post. Patents really are not science but just cover-all legalese and often pure gamble. Especially in the field of hairloss, some patents may offer good hints and insights, some other not.
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Re: Adenosine sides free altenatine to minoxidil

Post  NYJets on Thu Oct 22, 2015 8:05 am

magic_gro wrote:
Maines wrote:
Biffy wrote:
Maines wrote:biffy, where do you get the adonesin from, which vehicle do you use and how do you mix it. can you be a little more detailed?

I got it from private hair forum. Atm I'm using it at 1%, higher could possibly yield better results will try that someday. For vehicle am using ethanol + distilled water + PG or sometimes DMSO.

thx. me and some others from a dif forum are looking to group buy adenosine. we want some w high purity, no filling materials. if anyone on here knows a good place to buy some, please let me know! Smile

@Maines: I'd be interested too, since I missed out on that GB in the same forum as @biffy. Over there it was $26 for 100g. Unbelievably cheap.

I'd be in for a GB on Adenosine as well maybe Biffy can be so kind as to keep us posted?
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Re: Adenosine sides free altenatine to minoxidil

Post  magic_gro on Thu Oct 22, 2015 8:34 am

NYJets wrote:
magic_gro wrote:
@Maines: I'd be interested too, since I missed out on that GB in the same forum as @biffy. Over there it was $26 for 100g. Unbelievably cheap.

I'd be in for a GB on Adenosine as well maybe Biffy can be so kind as to keep us posted?

Great! But now @eldarlmari has instilled doubt into me... Question
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Re: Adenosine sides free altenatine to minoxidil

Post  Biffy on Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:37 am

NYJets wrote:I'd be in for a GB on Adenosine as well maybe Biffy can be so kind as to keep us posted?

Sure mate, but I doubt the next GB will be up very soon (maybe for newbies), because this will last us at standard dosage for like decades. You could buy some at Alibaba if you are in a hurry. Minoxidil is such a waste of money and health when you can have bulk Adenosine, the only problem I have with it is that is a bitch to dissolve.

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Re: Adenosine sides free altenatine to minoxidil

Post  magic_gro on Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:57 am

Biffy wrote:
NYJets wrote:I'd be in for a GB on Adenosine as well maybe Biffy can be so kind as to keep us posted?

Sure mate, but I doubt the next GB will be up very soon (maybe for newbies), because this will last us at standard dosage for like decades. You could buy some at Alibaba if you are in a hurry. Minoxidil is such a waste of money and health when you can have bulk Adenosine, the only problem I have with it is that is a bitch to dissolve.

Maybe if there are many new members interested in it, the group buy could be repeated. What was the total size (i.e. bulk weight) of the adenosine group buy?
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Re: Adenosine sides free altenatine to minoxidil

Post  Maines on Thu Oct 22, 2015 12:41 pm

Biffy wrote:
NYJets wrote:I'd be in for a GB on Adenosine as well maybe Biffy can be so kind as to keep us posted?

Sure mate, but I doubt the next GB will be up very soon (maybe for newbies), because this will last us at standard dosage for like decades. You could buy some at Alibaba if you are in a hurry. Minoxidil is such a waste of money and health when you can have bulk Adenosine, the only problem I have with it is that is a bitch to dissolve.


you mean this: http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Cas-number-58-61-7-high_60238214716.html?spm=a2700.7724857.35.12.9ll4Sr&s=p ?

is that of good quality, no filling materials etc, shop is trustable?

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Re: Adenosine sides free altenatine to minoxidil

Post  eldarlmari on Thu Oct 22, 2015 5:28 pm

magic_gro wrote:
eldarlmari wrote:lol. ok. Then i would also be happy that u just take all that i've said as broscience and self-anecdotals.

Well, no. You have been very specific and made statements on adenosine receptors that cannot be possibly inferred anecdotically.

You might have noticed I completely yanked away the patent you quoted in your post. Patents really are not science but just cover-all legalese and often pure gamble. Especially in the field of hairloss, some patents may offer good hints and insights, some other not.

Ok i will remember your advice that Dr Cotsarelis's patent is uninsightful

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Re: Adenosine sides free altenatine to minoxidil

Post  magic_gro on Thu Oct 22, 2015 5:40 pm

eldarlmari wrote:
magic_gro wrote:
eldarlmari wrote:lol. ok. Then i would also be happy that u just take all that i've said as broscience and self-anecdotals.

Well, no. You have been very specific and made statements on adenosine receptors that cannot be possibly inferred anecdotically.

You might have noticed I completely yanked away the patent you quoted in your post. Patents really are not science but just cover-all legalese and often pure gamble. Especially in the field of hairloss, some patents may offer good hints and insights, some other not.

Ok i will remember your advice that Dr Cotsarelis's patent is uninsightful

Well, I hadn't even looked into it. Thank you for providing context. It helps. Blobs of unorganized text back to back with no context are somewhat frustrating to me and make me want to just dismiss them and move over.
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Re: Adenosine sides free altenatine to minoxidil

Post  eldarlmari on Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:58 pm

magic_gro wrote:
eldarlmari wrote:
magic_gro wrote:
eldarlmari wrote:lol. ok. Then i would also be happy that u just take all that i've said as broscience and self-anecdotals.

Well, no. You have been very specific and made statements on adenosine receptors that cannot be possibly inferred anecdotically.

You might have noticed I completely yanked away the patent you quoted in your post. Patents really are not science but just cover-all legalese and often pure gamble. Especially in the field of hairloss, some patents may offer good hints and insights, some other not.

Ok i will remember your advice that Dr Cotsarelis's patent is uninsightful

Well, I hadn't even looked into it. Thank you for providing context. It helps. Blobs of unorganized text back to back with no context are somewhat frustrating to me and make me want to just dismiss them and move over.

Sorry i should have used a bigger front for:

1) Adenosine binds to 4 Adenosine receptors: A1, A2A, A2B, A3
2) A1 + A3 increases intracellular calcium and decreases cAMP via PKA(which is exactly what the EP2 and EP4 receptors increases when PGE2 binds to it)=> bad for hair
3) A2B receptor => FGF2, FGF7, IGF-1, VEGF upregulation => good for hair growth as long as the rate of differentiation doesnt exceed the rate of profileration[/b](which is exactly what we lack in AGA)
4) A2A => pro-fibrotic receptor. Dr Cotsarelis has mentioned the use of a A2A receptor antagonist in his patent.

so that you would have seen it earlier.

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Re: Adenosine sides free altenatine to minoxidil

Post  TNT on Fri Oct 23, 2015 5:45 am

eldarlmari so you say that pge2 is actually bad for hair because of EP2 and EP4 receptors?
I don't get it...

Also the usage of adenosine has a risk factor as a fibrotic agent? Especially after needling?

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Re: Adenosine sides free altenatine to minoxidil

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