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Depression, infection and inflammatory disorders

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Depression, infection and inflammatory disorders

Post  Xenon on Sun Sep 04, 2016 5:17 am

I found this newspaper report pretty interesting. Nothing really new under the sun, but it basically says that depression and inflammation are signs of our bodies entering into sickness mode as a result of infection. As I also pointed out in the past, PGD2 levels increase when our bodies are in sickness mode, and we become lethargic and sleepy so we can recover better.

"Barely a week goes by without a celebrity “opening up” about their “battle with depression”. This, apparently, is a brave thing to do because, despite all efforts to get rid of the stigma around depression, it is still seen as some kind of mental and emotional weakness.

But what if was nothing of the sort? What if it was a physical illness that just happens to make people feel pretty lousy? Would that make it less of a big deal to admit to? Could it even put a final nail in the coffin of the idea that depression is all in the mind?

According to a growing number of scientists, this is exactly how we should be thinking about the condition. George Slavich, a clinical psychologist at the University of California in Los Angeles, has spent years studying depression, and has come to the conclusion that it has as much to do with the body as the mind. “I don’t even talk about it as a psychiatric condition any more,” he says. “It does involve psychology, but it also involves equal parts of biology and physical health.”

The basis of this new view is blindingly obvious once it is pointed out: everyone feels miserable when they are ill. That feeling of being too tired, bored and fed up to move off the sofa and get on with life is known among psychologists as sickness behaviour. It happens for a good reason, helping us avoid doing more damage or spreading an infection any further.

It also looks a lot like depression. So if people with depression show classic sickness behaviour and sick people feel a lot like people with depression – might there be a common cause that accounts for both?

The answer to that seems to be yes, and the best candidate so far is inflammation – a part of the immune system that acts as a burglar alarm to close wounds and call other parts of the immune system into action. A family of proteins called cytokines sets off inflammation in the body, and switches the brain into sickness mode.

Both cytokines and inflammation have been shown to rocket during depressive episodes, and – in people with bipolar – to drop off in periods of remission. Healthy people can also be temporarily put into a depressed, anxious state when given a vaccine that causes a spike in inflammation. Brain imaging studies of people injected with a typhoid vaccine found that this might be down to changes in the parts of the brain that process reward and punishment.

There are other clues, too: people with inflammatory diseases such as rheumatoid arthritis tend to suffer more than average with depression; cancer patients given a drug called interferon alpha, which boosts their inflammatory response to help fight the cancer, often become depressed as a side-effect.

As evidence like this continues to stack up, it’s not surprising that some people have shifted their attention to what might be causing the inflammation in the first place. Turhan Canli of Stony Brook University in New York thinks infections are the most likely culprit, and even goes as far as to say that we should rebrand depression as an infectious – but not contagious – disease.

Others aren’t willing to go that far, not least because infection is not the only way to set off inflammation. A diet rich in trans fats and sugar has been shown to promote inflammation, while a healthy one full of fruit, veg and oily fish helps keep it at bay. Obesity is another risk factor, probably because body fat, particularly around the belly, stores large quantities of cytokines.

Add this to the fact that stress, particularly the kind that follows social rejection or loneliness, also causes inflammation, and it starts to look as if depression is a kind of allergy to modern life – which might explain its spiralling prevalence all over the world as we increasingly eat, sloth and isolate ourselves into a state of chronic inflammation."

Full article:

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/jan/04/depression-allergic-reaction-inflammation-immune-system

And on that note, I've read cases in which people on certain anti-depressants have experienced hair regrowth as an unexpected positive side effect. Apparently, these selective seratonin re-uptake inhibitors have powerful anti-fungal properties, so this might be one of the chief reasons why some men have reported regrowth.
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Re: Depression, infection and inflammatory disorders

Post  sanderson on Sun Sep 04, 2016 10:31 am



“In many [pattern baldness patients], we encountered various types of ‘fixed smiles,’ and in a few, a rather striking, characteristic expression best described as a ‘toothy smile.’ Such rigid facial patterns are thought to reflect, psychologically speaking, defensive attitudes. Wilhelm Reich in his book, ‘Character Analysis,’ pointed out what he called ‘muscular armor’ as a frequently observed somatic reflection of ‘character armor.’ ‘Character armor’ refers to the psychologic defenses of a neurotic personality which serve as protection from feelings of insecurity and anxiety.”[1]

“Adaptive hormones can cause mental changes in man. Many patients who take ACTH or COL first develop a sense of extraordinary wellbeing and buoyancy, with excitement and insomnia; this is sometimes followed by a depression which may go so far as to create suicidal tendencies.”[2]

“Glucocorticoids exert early influences on the brain that tend to elevate mood and increase the sense of ‘well-being.’ Larger amounts can bring on temporary euphoria. However, the secondary effects include psychic depression. Patients with chronically elevated levels tend to have mood swings. They have been known to display bizarre behavior and to suffer hallucinations.”[3]

“Hyperprolactinemic patients were significantly more hostile, depressed, and anxious and had more feelings of inadequacy than family practice patients and non patient employees. The authors recommend measuring the serum prolactin levels of women with depression, hostility, anxiety, and symptoms or signs suggestive of hyperprolactinemia.”[4]

“Negative affectivity is a broad personality trait that refers to the stable tendency to experience negative emotions. Individuals who are high in negative affectivity are more likely to report negative affective mood states across time and regardless of the situation.”[5]

“High-negative affectivity individuals not only experience more feelings of dysphoria and tension, but have a negative view of self, report more somatic symptoms, and have an attention bias towards adverse stimuli. Overall, they seem to scan the world for signs of impending trouble…”[6]

“A common denominator among these studies documenting increased cortisol to laboratory challenges appears to be an increase in negative affectivity. The relationship between negative affectivity and cortisol activity has been well documented in several studies using structured laboratory stressors, such as public speaking and mental arithmetic and aversive stimulation as well as in the psychiatric literature relating to alterations in cortisol in depressed patients.”[7]

“Closely related to this openness to inner and outer experience in general is an openness to and an acceptance of other individuals. As a client moves toward being able to accept his own experience, he also moves toward the acceptance of the experience of others. He values and appreciates both his own experience and that of others for what it is. To quote Maslow again regarding his self-actualizing individuals: ‘One does not complain about water because it is wet, nor about rocks because they are hard… As the child looks out upon the world with wide, uncritical and innocent eyes, simply noting and observing what is the case, without either arguing the matter or demanding that it be otherwise, so does the self-actualizing person look upon human nature both in himself and in others.’ This acceptant attitude toward that which exists, I find developing in clients in therapy.”[8]

“Making an effort to learn how to use techniques of food, hormones, light, activity, etc., is similar to the effort needed to work with a psychologist, and the effort itself is part of the therapy…”[9]

1. A theory of the pathogenesis of ordinary human baldness (1950)
2. The Story of Adaptation Syndrome (1952)
3. Endocrine Physiology (1985)
4. Hyperprolactinemia, distress, and hostility (1984)
5. Encyclopedia of Behavioral Medicine Negative Affectivity (2013)
6. Type D personality: A potential risk factor refined (2000)
7. Cortisol fluctuates with increases and decreases in negative affect (1999)
8. Carl Rogers on Abraham Maslow in the book, On Becoming a Person (1961)
9. Raymond Peat (2014)
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Re: Depression, infection and inflammatory disorders

Post  Xenon on Mon Sep 05, 2016 2:44 am

Cheers for info and Roddy vid, Sanderson. Very interesting stuff, and no doubt it's all interrelated.

For me, the biggest mystery, is why only the follicles of the galea are prone to inflammation. Sure, we can say, well it's because the matrix cells of these follicles have a higher number of PGD2 receptors, so are more likely to inflame when there is an underlying systemic infection which then initiates an increase in PGD2 / cytokines. But the question is: why do these receptors upregulate within these cells in particular?

Some attribute this problem to a tight scalp, but for me that's an archaic idea because transplanted hairs continue to grow in the "trouble zones", but native hairs continue to miniaturize in a specific order, so it has to be an issue with the follicles native to those areas. They only start to suffer inflammatory issues a while after we start producing androgens and enter manhood, so there has to be a reason why androgens act as the initial catalyst.

IMO, and without wanting to ram it down everyone's throat, I think MPB is an additional secondary sex characteristic designed to alert us to pathogenic infection or emotional stress. In other words, any stressor that triggers an increase in PGD2 / cytokines, these follicles are first to inflame, but will only do so under those conditions.

And this leads me to wonder about something else... perhaps all males have a baldness gene (or susceptibility to hair loss), but it only becomes expressed due to the development of infections / high stress. The reason why I consider this to be a possibility, is down to the fact that we see some men who have perfect heads of hair for many years, then, somehow, baldness mysteriously starts to kick in, then you're like, 'Eh, how did that happen to him? That wasn't in the script'.

And to say this is a senescence related problem also doesn't quite explain it because we also see many men who are NW1 into their 90's (cue Ronald Reagan as a prime example). And, let's not forget, even when we do age, the hair around the back and side of the head continues to grow, even though it may turn grey. I'd personally say that it could be more of a time related issue, in the respect that it takes more time for the system to become toxic in some individuals than others, therefore some develop inflammatory issues later in life.

P.S. I couldn't help but notice, that Roddy with glasses looks a lot like that Gordon Freeman character from the Half Life game. All he needs to complete the look, is a goatee, then he can save us from the body snatching, alien, fungal parasites making us all bald Very Happy
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Re: Depression, infection and inflammatory disorders

Post  rofl on Mon Sep 05, 2016 3:56 am

ive never understood the whole mental vs physical thing.

a mental problem is caused by neurotransmitter imbalances.  too much of one thing, or not enough of something, or a reuptake system not working, or something not crossing the synapse etc.

a neurotransmitter is a physical object.  its just small.  mental conditions are physical conditions.  caused by a combination of genetic, epigenetic, and envrionmental factors.  same as any other health condition.

and if depression can be caused by genetics and epigenetics, whos to say it isnt inherited from someone 3 generations ago who had the flu, and had depression (in the same way as the article describes.) then conceived a child.

nice topic.
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Re: Depression, infection and inflammatory disorders

Post  imprisoned-radical on Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:59 pm

sanderson wrote:

“In many [pattern baldness patients], we encountered various types of ‘fixed smiles,’ and in a few, a rather striking, characteristic expression best described as a ‘toothy smile.’ Such rigid facial patterns are thought to reflect, psychologically speaking, defensive attitudes. Wilhelm Reich in his book, ‘Character Analysis,’ pointed out what he called ‘muscular armor’ as a frequently observed somatic reflection of ‘character armor.’ ‘Character armor’ refers to the psychologic defenses of a neurotic personality which serve as protection from feelings of insecurity and anxiety.”[1]

“Closely related to this openness to inner and outer experience in general is an openness to and an acceptance of other individuals. As a client moves toward being able to accept his own experience, he also moves toward the acceptance of the experience of others. He values and appreciates both his own experience and that of others for what it is. To quote Maslow again regarding his self-actualizing individuals: ‘One does not complain about water because it is wet, nor about rocks because they are hard… As the child looks out upon the world with wide, uncritical and innocent eyes, simply noting and observing what is the case, without either arguing the matter or demanding that it be otherwise, so does the self-actualizing person look upon human nature both in himself and in others.’ This acceptant attitude toward that which exists, I find developing in clients in therapy.”[8]


This can be observed in all insecure people, not just people that are insecure about hair loss.

I was at someone's birthday party this weekend. There was one guy there who had advanced male pattern baldness. He was maybe in his early 30s. He tried really hard to be likeable and friendly. He had a laugh that seemed forced and a "fixed smile". However, there were other people there who exhibited the same insecure behavior and they did not have hair loss. They all had "rigid personalities".

One thing that I have noticed about some insecure people is that they make an effort to appear calm/collected.


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Re: Depression, infection and inflammatory disorders

Post  Xenon on Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:55 pm

I have a work colleague who is 43. We got into a discussion about MPB because he also has a receded hairline. He told me that he never had problems with hairloss until a few years back, when, he said, he went through a period of extreme stress. I found this interesting because the stress issue seems to trigger MPB in quite a number of men. But even though stress is a major catalyst in many inflammatory disorders, could these problems be resolved by simply learning to laugh and not take things too seriously?

I remember reading a book called You Can Heal Your Life by Louise L. Hay. This author is heavily into metaphysics, and she believed that memories of sexual abuse caused her to develop cervical cancer. She went on to claim that she cured her cancer by detoxing and, literally, 'laughing away the cancer'. I've no idea if she was exaggerating to make profit, but both detox and laughter are known to reduce inflammation.
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Re: Depression, infection and inflammatory disorders

Post  john3333 on Tue Sep 06, 2016 11:41 pm

Xenon wrote:I have a work colleague who is 43. We got into a discussion about MPB because he also has a receded hairline. He told me that he never had problems with hairloss until a few years back, when, he said, he went through a period of extreme stress. I found this interesting because the stress issue seems to trigger MPB in quite a number of men. But even though stress is a major catalyst in many inflammatory disorders, could these problems be resolved by simply learning to laugh and not take things too seriously?

I remember reading a book called You Can Heal Your Life by Louise L. Hay. This author is heavily into metaphysics, and she believed that memories of sexual abuse caused her to develop cervical cancer. She went on to claim that she cured her cancer by detoxing and, literally, 'laughing away the cancer'. I've no idea if she was exaggerating to make profit, but both detox and laughter are known to reduce inflammation.
My entire life has been a state of stress.
I'm angry about my virginity. Every guy with a full head of hair is surrounded by beautiful women, while we have to suffer in loneliness. 'Every day is a bad one where I  ask myself when will I be able to live my life? I keep a positive view on the future, but I know that the past will never be able to be changed. Hairloss has taken so much life out of me. I'm tired of being stepped on by everyone. Everybody is able to have fun in this life except me. Everybody is smiling and laughing except me. Nobody will regret their life except me. Everyone gets to be happy. I don't know why I don't get to be. It's not fair.
It's so terrible. When I say everybody I mean everybody. Everyone has gotten their share of happiness. Everyone has good memories.
I know in the future I will be given happiness, but honestly I don't see how. I guess the idea of heaven is comforting for me in that it doesn't matter how terrible this life is because heaven will be good. It's depressing to think of life like that though.
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Re: Depression, infection and inflammatory disorders

Post  Xenon on Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:27 am

Well, John, maybe this is the thing... perhaps we should just learn to smile in the face of adversity regardless, because being in a lowly depressive state just feeds the problem tenfold. I read studies on how mirthful laughter decreases pro-inflammatory cytokines (the very cytokines involved in hairloss), whereas stress and depression cause them to increase. So, when we're continually stressing about our hair and everything else in life, we are influencing the production of these cytokines. So, perhaps we should take notice of the studies and really make the effort to just smile / laugh for the entire fuck of it. You never know, with this lifestyle change, regrowth might just follow. And besides, being in a lowly depressed state is a personal hell because it cripples you from doing anything. Being dead would probably be a better option than living a life of continued misery, so may as well just make the journey enjoyable by laughing along the way.
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Re: Depression, infection and inflammatory disorders

Post  Sage 1 on Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:37 am

Think in many cases depression is due to own expectations, what others might think.
In my case when i was 20 years old, and noticed my hair thinning out it was more of a ruddy moment, but it did not hold me back from being who i am.

Shallowness may differ in today's society or the area surroundings, but still i think people limit themselves.
Hair loss is just an example, and in today's society almost everything is abnormal according to the industry, that shapes the society standards for obvious reasons.

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Re: Depression, infection and inflammatory disorders

Post  Xenon on Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:41 am

rofl wrote:ive never understood the whole mental vs physical thing.

a mental problem is caused by neurotransmitter imbalances.  too much of one thing, or not enough of something, or a reuptake system not working, or something not crossing the synapse etc.

a neurotransmitter is a physical object.  its just small.  mental conditions are physical conditions.  caused by a combination of genetic, epigenetic, and envrionmental factors.  same as any other health condition.

and if depression can be caused by genetics and epigenetics, whos to say it isnt inherited from someone 3 generations ago who had the flu, and had depression (in the same way as the article describes.) then conceived a child.

nice topic.

"Mounting evidence indicates that inflammatory cytokines contribute to the development of depression in both medically ill and medically healthy individuals. Cytokines are important for development and normal brain function, and have the ability to influence neurocircuitry and neurotransmitter systems to produce behavioral alterations. "

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3741070/
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Re: Depression, infection and inflammatory disorders

Post  john3333 on Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:59 am

Xenon wrote:Well, John, maybe this is the thing... perhaps we should just learn to smile in the face of adversity regardless, because being in a lowly depressive state just feeds the problem tenfold. I read studies on how mirthful laughter decreases pro-inflammatory cytokines (the very cytokines involved in hairloss), whereas stress and depression cause them to increase. So, when we're continually stressing about our hair and everything else in life, we are influencing the production of these cytokines. So, perhaps we should take notice of the studies and really make the effort to just smile / laugh for the entire fuck of it. You never know, with this lifestyle change, regrowth might just follow. And besides, being in a lowly depressed state is a personal hell because it cripples you from doing anything. Being dead would probably be a better option than living a life of continued misery, so may as well just make the journey enjoyable by laughing along the way.

Do you think I don't want to laugh, smile, or be happy? The problem is that I'm not allowed to. Everybody hates me and always has. I don't want to go into this too much in this post since I need to say my entire life story, but I'll say a little.
I wouldn't say I was every truly happy.
When I was a child, I'd say that was when I was a little happier even though it was the worst time of my life. I guess children just have more of the feel good chemicals. I used to smile and laugh more, but I also used to cry more. I don't know what I thought of myself back then, but I remember being let down by everyone as early as I can remember. I don't know why. I don't know what I did to be hated by everyone. It's not my fault that's for sure. Nothing is my fault because I have done everything right. I was bullied for many reasons.
Later, I hit puberty, and I could not talk to others anymore because I feared being hurt. Before puberty, I realized I was socially inept, which was caused because nobody wanted to be my friend. Sometimes there were people who pitied me and talked to me, but I would push them away since I did not want to seem weak and accept my loneliness.
It's more complicated than that and I don't know if I explained what you wanted to know, but that's why I'm a virgin.
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Re: Depression, infection and inflammatory disorders

Post  Xenon on Wed Sep 07, 2016 1:53 am

john3333 wrote:
Xenon wrote:Well, John, maybe this is the thing... perhaps we should just learn to smile in the face of adversity regardless, because being in a lowly depressive state just feeds the problem tenfold. I read studies on how mirthful laughter decreases pro-inflammatory cytokines (the very cytokines involved in hairloss), whereas stress and depression cause them to increase. So, when we're continually stressing about our hair and everything else in life, we are influencing the production of these cytokines. So, perhaps we should take notice of the studies and really make the effort to just smile / laugh for the entire fuck of it. You never know, with this lifestyle change, regrowth might just follow. And besides, being in a lowly depressed state is a personal hell because it cripples you from doing anything. Being dead would probably be a better option than living a life of continued misery, so may as well just make the journey enjoyable by laughing along the way.

Do you think I don't want to laugh, smile, or be happy? The problem is that I'm not allowed to. Everybody hates me and always has. I don't want to go into this too much in this post since I need to say my entire life story, but I'll say a little.
I wouldn't say I was every truly happy.
When I was a child, I'd say that was when I was a little happier even though it was the worst time of my life. I guess children just have more of the feel good chemicals. I used to smile and laugh more, but I also used to cry more. I don't know what I thought of myself back then, but I remember being let down by everyone as early as I can remember. I don't know why.  I don't know what I did to be hated by everyone. It's not my fault that's for sure. Nothing is my fault because I have done everything right. I was bullied for many reasons.
Later, I hit puberty, and I could not talk to others anymore because I feared being hurt. Before puberty, I realized I was socially inept, which was caused because nobody wanted to be my friend. Sometimes there were people who pitied me and talked to me, but I would push them away since I did not want to seem weak and accept my loneliness.
It's more complicated than that and I don't know if I explained what you wanted to know, but that's why I'm a virgin.

When everyone is negative towards you, you are the problem. Your body language is radiating a quiet, miserable, standoffish attitude which makes everyone feels tense. If you're shy / quiet around people, you communicate that you don't want to talk to them, so they wont feel comfortable initiating conversation with you. If you're miserable, you communicate that you don't want to have fun with them, and this makes them feel miserable. If you avoid people, then they will do exactly the same to you, and so on. All of these negatives behaviours, and more, cause people to hate you and alienate themselves from you. You might get pissed with me saying this, but it's true. The only difference between you and the next person is your body language and what it communicates.

You say everyone is preventing you from being happy, well, that's because of what I said about you making them feel miserable. Can it be coincidence that all the people around you are happy relating to each other, except you? Like I say, you are communicating negativity, they respond in kind, and you blame them for it. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Edited: However, I will say, traumatic memories of being hurt by others is obviously making you distrust people in general, not to mention making you feel unworthy of being in their presence. This is the root cause of your negative body language and why this problem persists for you. You might want to see a therapist or just find your own way around this problem.

Here's a social experiment showing a bald guy bursting out laughing in public. Watch how his happiness makes even the stiffest of people come to life and start laughing along with him. Do you think people would react the same way if he exuded negative body language? Of course not. And this is precisely your problem, which can be overcome by instantly changing your attitude and choosing to be happy:



And another:

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Re: Depression, infection and inflammatory disorders

Post  Xenon on Wed Sep 07, 2016 5:07 am

Another thing I'd like to add to the above post: I know this guy called Alan; he was actually my classmate in high school. Everyone and I mean everyone likes and respects this guy. He has had plenty of beautiful women, and his present gf (my sister's best friend), is utterly besotted with him. And he's not even a particularly good looking guy either.

Why does this guy have this halo effect? One thing I notice about him, every time I see him, he is always smiling, happy, outgoing and confident. Whenever he sees anyone he immediately greets them with a smile and is always open and happy when communicating with them. Anytime his name is brought up in a conversation with someone in my town, he's the guy who no one will bad mouth at all because his happy demeanour, upon meeting people, instantly makes them feel liked and respected.

Now, had he have been a withdrawn, stone faced person who behaved indifferently towards others, you can guarantee that everyone would hate his guts, bad mouth and avoid him... likely even want to kick his ass for having such a negative effect upon them.

Body language and mood is key to building better relationships with people. If everyone hates you and treats you like shit, then it is most definitely you making them dislike you.

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Re: Depression, infection and inflammatory disorders

Post  shaftless on Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:20 pm

Having a happy demeanour all the time may sound good...but it may hint at an underlying problem. Like wanting to be liked so bad that you will go out of your way to make people smile and laugh. You never want to be just normal or serious for a second since it seems dull to other people. I developed this kind of behaviour I think. I'm constantly looking for something funny to say but deep down I think it's based on some kind of insecurity. I also was bullied in early life as well. Even by my best friend at times. It's funny cuz with my family members I just act normal without trying to be funny. But once I'm in social situations outside the home or at work I just have to be funny. I want to be liked so bad. But with family you don't have to be like that constantly cuz you're already accepted.

How this ties in with with hairloss I'm not sure. For some, that underlying stress that makes you want to be liked so dearly might be harming our hair. But then, they say a lot of comedians have similar insecurities that led them to develop a sense of humour. But not all comidians are bald. I really can't think of any bald, insecure comedian at the moment. Even robin williams had some deep down insecurities that gave him depression but he never went bald early in life. He still had lots of hair even when he died in his 60's.

But hopefully we won't have to wait too long for a cure to come our way. It may even be as early as next year with that equol topical from dr brotzu in italy. We just gotta hang in there. And if all else fails, go for a girl that isn't terribly pretty so you won't have the pressure to please them that much. Just as long as they have a great body LOL.

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Re: Depression, infection and inflammatory disorders

Post  CausticSymmetry on Wed Sep 07, 2016 2:30 pm

Great thread this one I think.

Because I resolved my hair loss for a considerable time I can definitely concur with a lot of information here.

Rather than repeat some of the points already mentioned, I'll add a few physical and external influences.

When I was young (let's figure somewhere between age 4 and early 30's.) Life was quite uncertain. Perhaps many are already aware that coming from at least one parent who tends to be critical can be influential into self questioning.

If not the world was confusing enough, I have always been the type of person to think a lot (questioning everything).

The main thought process was that many appeared to have an appearance of competence....keep in mind this was long before the medical industrial complex was poisoning people with many drugs or vaccines. No fluoridated water in my state until 1996 (I was well on my way to 30 by then).

So my general thought process throughout a lot of these formative years was a sense of inadequacy. The recurring theme/thought process for me was how interesting it was that people who seem confident were not necessarily very smart people. Instead, they just seemed very socially adaptable people.

Maybe I thought it would've been nice to feel "at home" with a popular, congruent thought process (hive mind). At least for me, this divide or perhaps better put, not connecting with that many people. Certainly I had close friends, but I generally did not trust a lot of people, so I was rather quiet.

Long story short on this, eventually everything came together....Making a long story longer, my 20's through my early 30's not was a healthy period for me. As my health improved (I was and still am in the medical profession/natural-based). So as my health gradually improved, so did my outlook on life, attitude, effect on others, etc.

Not surprising to many in this thread, recent research confirms that social outlook, attitude, etc is tied in with the gut.
While I did not have any notable digestive problems, gut health is not always obvious.

I also believe that childhood vaccination did play a significantly negative role in my development after grade school.
For example, I remember feeling very confident, great with girls....But suddenly things began to get worse, that confidence melted away...I really didn't understand it. School work began extremely difficult (everything went to crap so to speak).

I eventually recovered academically, but socially felt things were never quite the same until much later in life.

Final note, as my health improved, my hair and social aptitude improved considerably.

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Re: Depression, infection and inflammatory disorders

Post  Xenon on Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:13 pm

Having a happy demeanour all the time may sound good...but it may hint at an underlying problem

Yes, I do agree with you, and of course emotions need to be expressed healthily. If someone is abusive towards you, then don't be a doormat or simply don't stick around to take anymore shit. Similarly so, you don't have to try to be funny or the class clown to be liked, rather just be friendly, happy and enthusiastic when you approach or converse with someone. I mean, if we approach someone with an aggressive scowl on our faces, and talk with an attitude, they're going to think we're hostile assholes and, either, place distance between us both or even want to fight us.  

The point I was generally trying to make, towards John, if you're anxious about life all the time, then you become trapped in a personal hell in which you despise yourself and everyone around you. When you're in that victim frame of mind, you can never achieve anything because your own victimhood constantly informs you that you're not good enough and never will be, so don't bother trying your hand at anything because you're a loser and no one will ever take you seriously. Then all you want to do is stay in bed feeling tired, depressed and hopeless or turning to drink and drugs as a way of escaping. At the end of the day, though, we have to get out, face life and face people, so I think that it's essential to have a positive mental attitude to make interactions with others more happy and relaxing, and to generally succeed.  

I remember I used to work with a guy who was a real hothead, he was only young but his face was crimson, his hair was diffusely thinning, because he was always getting pissed with people over the most petty of reasons. Consequently people tended to avoid him as much as possible or would frequently get into fights with him, but he could never figure out that he was the problem. He wasn't actually a bad person at his core, it's just that he could never relax or form a good working relationship with others due to his fiery attitude. I used to think, 'Fucking hell... talk about living in your own self perpetuating hell world. This guy will prob have a stroke before he's 30'.

But yeh, just saying, I think it goes without saying, that we should be friendly and civilized towards others, even though we might run into the occasional anti-social dick whom you just cannot create rapport with. But why let them break your spirit?
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Re: Depression, infection and inflammatory disorders

Post  Xenon on Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:07 am

John, here's a good one to read:

“Nobody Likes Me:” Understanding Loneliness and Self-shame

There is perhaps no more painful thought in the world than that of “nobody likes me.” It’s an easy feeling to indulge and dwell on, a terrible go-to self-attack in low moments when we feel isolated, depressed, anxious or insecure. This feeling has almost no bearing in reality and no purpose other than to deeply wound us and turn us against ourselves and whatever our goals may be. And yet, this exact thought is extremely common to shy people and extroverts alike.
When psychologist Lisa Firestone conducted research using a scale that measured individual’s self-destructive thoughts, she found the most common critical thought people had toward themselves was that they are not like other people. Human beings are a social species, and yet, every one of us feels, on some level, like we just don’t fit in with everyone else. A recent U.K. study of millions of people found that one in 10 people didn’t feel they had a close friend, while one in five never or rarely felt loved. So, while we may feel alone in thinking “nobody likes me,” we actually have that in common with a staggering number of people in the world. Moreover, what most of us who feel this sense of isolation also fail to realize is that the reason it is so easy to perceive ourselves as an outcast or to feel rejected, disliked or cast aside has much less to do with our external circumstances and everything to do with an internal critic we all possess.

This “critical inner voice” exists in all of us, reminding us constantly that we aren’t good enough and don’t deserve what we want. In her book Yes, Please comedian Amy Poehler described this inner enemy as “a demon voice.” She wrote, “This very patient and determined demon shows up in your bedroom one day and refuses to leave. You are six or twelve or fifteen and you look in the mirror and you hear a voice so awful and mean that it takes your breath away. It tells you that you are fat and ugly and you don’t deserve love. And the scary part is the demon is your own voice.” The critical inner voice tends to be louder and meaner in some of us than others, and it tends to pick on us more or less at different points in our lives. Yet, one thing’s for sure. As long as we are listening to this dangerous critic that twists our reality, we cannot really trust our own perceptions of what others think of us.
Chances are, it is this destructive “voice” we are hearing every time we tell ourselves, “nobody likes me.” It’s also this voice that instructs us to avoid situations where we’d get to know people. It shuts us up in social situations, makes us nervous, so we don’t act like ourselves. It confuses us with its ceaseless stream of self-shaming observations and self-limiting advice, leaving us anxious and stifled. In turn, it bends us out of shape in such a way that creates a self-fulfilling prophecy. Once we lose confidence or our sense of self, we’ll no longer act like ourselves. We may even achieve the outcome our critical inner voice warned us about, feeling isolated or finding it difficult to connect with others. “Keep quiet,” the voice barks. “You’ll only embarrass yourself! Don’t you see how stupid you sound? No one wants you around. You don’t add anything. Just be alone! Stop trying. NOBODY LIKES YOU!”"

Full article:

http://www.psychalive.org/nobody-likes-me/
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