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Copper toxicity/Folinic acid/Adrenal Fatigue Issues.

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Copper toxicity/Folinic acid/Adrenal Fatigue Issues.

Post  irlman on Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:41 am

So last year after I had been taking msm/molybdenum all summer and I noticed a few white hairs where there was none previously and I couldn't tan as well as before, instead I got burned more easily. I figured that these supplements were depleting my copper levels so I took a supplement of copper sebbacate 3mg for just over two weeks twice a day, morning and night and although the white hairs went away and my tendons improved (smoother) other issues arrived. The first thing was a flu which lasted for at least 5 weeks, the copper supplement must have provoked some sort of immune response, the next thing I noticed was that I was fatigued all the time especially in the morning even after a full night's sleep, just a lot more sluggish than usual. I think it is adrenal fatigue as I do not get any sort of adrenaline rush anymore, for example if I have to step on the brakes all of a sudden when driving. I aso sweat less than usual. As well this the copper seems to be causing a block of methylation in my body, I say this because previously when I took any methyl supplement such as methyl folate or tmg or indeed spinach which is high in these I would always get a boost in energy for the whole day and I would find it easier to maintain a positive mood likely due to increased SAMe levels. The other supplement which I notice blocks my methylation is folinic acid, in fact I feel identical on folinic acid and copper but the folinic acid only lasts about 17 hours in the body but the copper seems to have remain. Ive tried an aggressive amount of supplements over the past year to try and remedy this but have had limited success. I had my bloods done a few weeks back, most things appear normal, ceruloplasmin is 21 and although the range is 20-60 I wounder if a higher number would be better. For the past two weeks I have tried salt loading as recommended by a poster on this forum on another thread about adrenal fatigue and from it I noticed some improved energy, better temperment, improved balance, possibly better skin hydration on the bottum of my feet which felt dryfor the last year. I think I notice some shedding on the salt loading, would this be due to increased aldosterone production?

I know adrenal fatigue has come up on here before but for me it seemed to be triggered by copper. So I guess what I'm asking is should I try and get rid of the copper out of my system or focus on building the adrenals. I basically have all the supplements frequently mentioned for this, e.g glandulars, ashwaganda, dhea, tyrosine,licorice etc. I would like if someone knowledgeable could weigh in on this.

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Re: Copper toxicity/Folinic acid/Adrenal Fatigue Issues.

Post  irlman on Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:52 am

Just to add to this I have been on the the supplements mentioned above on and off for the last few weeks but haven't yet noticed anything dramatic from any. The two main things that I notice which interact strongly with copper are magnesium citrate powder which causes a copper dump, on it I become more sensitive to yeast and resveratrol which causes some tendonitis like symptoms. when I eat chocolate (a copper source) these symptoms alleviate but I feel like it brings me back to square one again. Should  I stay on these two supplements, or go back on msm/molybdenum? If I focus on removing the copper will the adrenals automatically restore themselves or not? Should I try and increase my ceruloplasmin levels, I think estrogen does this but if copper is estrogenic why would it be on the low side? Should I stay on the 'adrenal building' supplements? Thanks.

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Re: Copper toxicity/Folinic acid/Adrenal Fatigue Issues.

Post  CausticSymmetry on Fri Oct 21, 2016 1:57 am

Situations like this are usually too complex (there's probably something missing) to answer without a full picture.

For what it is worth, is zinc part of your routine?


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Re: Copper toxicity/Folinic acid/Adrenal Fatigue Issues.

Post  irlman on Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:30 pm

Yeah CS, zinc is nearly always in my routine in some form or another, zinc gluconate 50mg to be exact like at least  4 days a week, every other day but recently I've switched to the orotate form which is only 10mg per day. I cant say that I feel it makes a huge difference but maybe I need to be on it everyday? I think it does have a role in methylation but I've read that once copper goes into storage zinc has little effect, that it only affects the absorption of copper if taken at the same time copper is consumed and that its not really a strong chelator as perhaps some of the other supplements I mentioned. Not really sure if this is true or not.

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Re: Copper toxicity/Folinic acid/Adrenal Fatigue Issues.

Post  CausticSymmetry on Sat Oct 22, 2016 3:12 am

irlman wrote:Yeah CS, zinc is nearly always in my routine in some form or another, zinc gluconate 50mg to be exact like at least  4 days a week, every other day but recently I've switched to the orotate form which is only 10mg per day. I cant say that I feel it makes a huge difference but maybe I need to be on it everyday? I think it does have a role in methylation but I've read that once copper goes into storage zinc has little effect, that it only affects the absorption of copper if taken at the same time copper is consumed and that its not really a strong chelator as perhaps some of the other supplements I mentioned. Not really sure if this is true or not.

I would suggest returning to zinc gluconate at 15 milligrams. It does seem that you have a tendency to run low on copper. Resveratrol can chelate some of it out. Usually there is a bigger picture and focusing only on mineral balancing could just create more confusion. Determining what affects or what variety of methylation cycle you have will probably reveal the culprit.

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Re: Copper toxicity/Folinic acid/Adrenal Fatigue Issues.

Post  irlman on Sat Oct 22, 2016 5:20 am

Are you referring to MTHFR polymorphism testing? I think I've briefly read about these online but I've never really researched them that much. Am I correct in saying you cant get these performed at the local GP and have to send away to a lab to get these done? Just to give you a bit of background, physically I have all the characteristics of histadelia and I had bad OCD especially in my teen years until my early twenties when I found out about methylation supplements which made a profound difference to my sense of well being (more decisive, not stressed as easily) . I guess I've always have had weak tendons and I always notice when something improves them such as methylation, or in this case copper but I feel so different on both of these. For as long as I can remember I always used to have lots of nervous energy which has since dropped off and others around me have noticed as well. I will continue with the zinc at 15mg should I keep up the salt loading as well for now? Cheers.

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Re: Copper toxicity/Folinic acid/Adrenal Fatigue Issues.

Post  CausticSymmetry on Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:42 am

MTHFr is not consistent with checking.

I can usually figure out with symptoms as you already have.

Some people have a fascination with testing. For those people, looking for elevation of blood histamine, low SAMe to SAH ratio, low basophils and low serotonin are strong hints of undermethylation.


Last edited by CausticSymmetry on Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:48 am; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Copper toxicity/Folinic acid/Adrenal Fatigue Issues.

Post  irlman on Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:02 am

Does having elevated copper eliminate histamine by way of some DAO enzyme or something, maybe that's whats causing my lack of drive/energy at the min. In some regards I really feel I was better before I introduced the copper supplement like that in isolation. I also know that I used to always react readily to niacin terms of flushing, but I'm not sure I do anymore, well it could be due to the type I have been using to test this which is a time release version. Perhaps some straight up niacin will indicate if my histamine is low/high? Would any testing of any sort be useful at this point?

The way I interpret my methylation is working properly includes the following effects; 1)a clean energy boost, and feeling chill and calm, 2)deeper/heavier voice that comes more from my chest less from my larynx,throat (this is very noticeable to me), 3)More decisive, more able to accomplish daily goals, 4) Smooth tendons ligaments.

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