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T-cells & Stem cells

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T-cells & Stem cells

Post  Smurfy on Sun Jun 04, 2017 2:27 am

Hi all,

I came across this and thought it might be worthy of a discussion:

https://www.technologynetworks.com/cell-science/news/regulatory-t-cells-play-essential-role-in-hair-growth-289141
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Re: T-cells & Stem cells

Post  Benjamin Button on Mon Jun 05, 2017 8:25 am

Here's another short and sweet article on this development.

https://www.rdmag.com/article/2017/05/t-cells-could-be-triggers-hair-growth

Immortal, what do you think about this? Have you ever documented "tregs" role in mpb?
Suppressor T cells is what they were called previously. Did you already know about their communication with stem cells?
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Re: T-cells & Stem cells

Post  Smurfy on Sun Jun 11, 2017 1:50 pm

Honestly I'm surprised this isn't getting attention here... it seems like a big development.

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Re: T-cells & Stem cells

Post  Benjamin Button on Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:34 pm

Yes smurfy, I agree, perhaps people are just jaded and can't discern between irrelevant discoveries and very relevant ones like this one..

So I read first article again, and essentially what it boils this immune cell to stem cell communication signal down to is "the jag1 notch signalling pathway"...

So I did a quick Google to see if anybody ever studied jag1 relevance to mpb, and low and behold, this has already been identified in a prior genetic based study as a possible causitive factor in AGA... Wow here's an excerpt

"The expression patterns of Notch signaling pathway genes including Notch 2 and JAG1 were validated by real-time PCR (Figure S1). Jagged1 (JAG1) gene which encodes a ligand for Notch receptor maps to chromosome 20p a susceptibility locus for male-pattern baldness [8]. A reciprocal negative feedback regulation exists between Notch and AR-dependent pathways in the prostate [9]. The activation of AR and the concomitant loss of Notch signaling may be contributing factors to hair follicle miniaturization and may serve as the mechanistic link between prostate cancer and AGA. Thus, modulating the Notch signaling pathway in AGA may lead to future therapies."

That from the journal of dermatological science. "Microarray analysis of androgenetic and senescent alopecia: Comparison of gene expression shows two distinct profiles."

This is pretty god damn interesting... Is this what is really wrong with us? A simple notch signalling error?

CS, surely you have an opinion here? (He's probably researching the shit out of this as we speak! Lol)


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Re: T-cells & Stem cells

Post  shaftless on Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:33 am

Most people can't understand all that research gobblygook terminology. And when it comes down to something going wrong genetically then it's looked upon as nearly impossible to correct. How do you correct genes in a simple manner? Creams? Lotions?

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Re: T-cells & Stem cells

Post  Smurfy on Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:41 am

Benjamin Button wrote:Yes smurfy, I agree, perhaps people are just jaded and can't discern between irrelevant discoveries and very relevant ones like this one..

Very possible... or they browse looking for a quick fix to appear in a thread. Like you said, this is very relevant. Guess we might have to pioneer this one...

Here's something I just came across, speaking of jag1.

http://www.ors.org/Transactions/58/0006.pdf

It seems if we can find a way to locally activate the notch receptor, force signaling, increase the T-cell population locally, activate CD4+ etc, basically immuno-modulate the local environment, we have something here. But what I'm not finding at this point, are natural means in doing so. I haven't come across a study using any extract to mimic what we need. But maybe that link will kick up a few ideas.
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Re: T-cells & Stem cells

Post  Benjamin Button on Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:08 am

Well before going deep, why not just do what they did in the study?

"...replacing Tregs with microscopic beads covered in Jag1 protein restored Notch signaling in the stem cells and successfully activated follicle regeneration."

...all we need to do is get some microscopic beads, cover them with jag1, and then drink them and make a topical. Easy. Lol
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Re: T-cells & Stem cells

Post  Smurfy on Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:16 am

Good idea haha... I knew that little bag of jag covered beads in the fridge would come in handy some day!
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Re: T-cells & Stem cells

Post  Smurfy on Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:07 am

Here's something really good to add to our findings. I found this fascinating...

https://selfhacked.com/2014/11/11/treg/#Increasing_Tregs
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Re: T-cells & Stem cells

Post  Smurfy on Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:41 pm

I would like to call to the witness stand.... IGF-1.

Insulin-like growth factor-1 induces regulatory T cell-mediated suppression of allergic contact dermatitis in mice

Allergic contact dermatitis (ACD) is triggered by an aberrant hyperinflammatory immune response to innocuous chemical compounds and ranks as the world’s most prevalent occupational skin condition. Although a variety of immune effector cells are activated during ACD, regulatory T (Treg) cells are crucial in controlling the resulting inflammation. Insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1) regulates cell proliferation and differentiation and accelerates wound healing and regeneration in several organs including the skin. Recently IGF-1 has also been implicated in protection from autoimmune inflammation by expansion of Treg cells. Here, we demonstrate that ectopic expression of IGF-1 in mouse skin suppresses ACD in a Treg cell-specific manner, increasing the number of Foxp3+ Treg cells in the affected area and stimulating lymphocyte production of the anti-inflammatory cytokine interleukin 10. Similar therapeutic effects can be achieved with systemic or topical delivery of IGF-1, implicating this growth factor as a promising new therapeutic option for the treatment of ACD.

....in the event that Treg activity is a critical factor.
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Re: T-cells & Stem cells

Post  Benjamin Button on Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:28 pm


Interesting
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Re: T-cells & Stem cells

Post  CF on Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:43 am

Good stuff in this thread.

_________________
inurl:"thread URL here" site:.immortalhair.forumandco.com/ search term here

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Re: T-cells & Stem cells

Post  Benjamin Button on Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:12 am



little bit dead here with little exchange or debate, so I started a thread here...

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/investigating-an-immuno-androgenic-model-of-male-pattern-baldness.106536/
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Re: T-cells & Stem cells

Post  Smurfy on Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:51 pm

I read through that whole thread... 75% of it was garbage, ugh. It's baffling how set they are on DHT, and when we get "science-y" with them, they get sarcastic. Like you Ben, I'm here to present what I find one step at a time and generate discussion about the findings. So, I'm going to keep posting more things here, at least it's a cleaner adult conversation.

Here is one very worthy of conversation. This is where things start to get interesting!

Gender And Sex Hormones Influence CD4 Regulatory T Cells And Their Expression Of FoxP3 In Healthy People And In SLE.

Purpose:
The goal of the present study was to determine the role of gender and the effect of sex hormones on the regulation of Foxp3 gene in healthy individuals and in SLE patients.
Methods:
Levels of sex hormones (17 b-estradiol, testosterone), cytokines, and chemokines were measured by ELISA in the serum/plasma of healthy donors and from the culture supernatant of peripheral blood mononuclear cells (PBMC) isolated from SLE patients and healthy controls. PBMC were immunophenotyped by flow cytometry, and mRNA gene expression studies were performed by real time PCR. Protein expression was analyzed by intracellular staining and by Western blot analysis. The in vitro effect of sex hormones 17 b-estradiol (60–100, 500pg/ml), and testosterone (100pg/ml) were studied by culturing sorted CD4+CD25hiCD127lo regulatory T cells for 24–72 hours followed by FACS/Western blot analyses.
Results:
1- The numbers of CD4+ CD25hi Foxp3+ and of CD8+ FoxP3+ regulatory T cells are significantly decreased in healthy females compared to healthy males (p<0.01).
2- Both CD4+CD25+hi and CD8+CD25+ subsets of healthy males had 3–4-fold higher Foxp3 mRNA compared to healthy females.
3- Plasma 17b-estradiol levels are significantly increased in female SLE patients compared to healthy females (p<0.01).
4- The addition of 17 b- estradiol (physiologic cycling luteal phase concentrations of 60 pg/ml) for 24 hours to cultured PBMC from healthy women (but not men) increased the total numbers of cells expressing CD4, CD25 and FoxP3. These effects were not seen in cells in women with SLE.
5- Incubation of CD4+ regulatory T cells with 100 pg/ml of 17b- estradiol maintained FoxP3 expression in SLE women, in contrast to the usual increase in CD4+ Treg that occurs in healthy women at this concentration.
6- Testosterone (100 pg/ml) significantly increased FoxP3 expression in CD4+CD25hi cells from women with SLE. In fact, plasma concentrations of testosterone in those women correlated positively with the expression of FoxP3 in their CD4+CD25+ T cells (p <0.04).
Conclusions:
Women may be more susceptible than men to SLE and other autoimmune diseases in part because many healthy women have fewer regulatory T cells and less FoxP3 expression in those cells. In addition, women with SLE, compared to healthy women, seem to have less ability to generate CD4+ Treg in response to physiologic concentrations of 17 b- estradiol, whereas the testosterone metabolite increases the generation of Tregs. These data suggest that gender and sex hormones may influence susceptibility to SLE via their effects on regulatory T cells.

https://www.blackwellpublishing.com/acrmeeting/abstract.asp?MeetingID=774&id=89904
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Re: T-cells & Stem cells

Post  shaftless on Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:19 pm

There was a university in florida or somewhere around there that was experimenting with an igf topical. Very small amounts. They were going to release it after experiments but the results didn't look that dramatic. Not sure if they went ahead and released it anyway or gave up. Igf is nothing new and supposedly you can make it yourself by ingesting soy protein and capsaicin. Sounds too easy. Here's a link.

http://www.hairloss-research.org/UpdateIGF10-11.html

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Re: T-cells & Stem cells

Post  Benjamin Button on Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:21 pm

yeah they are mostly assholes

but there are some guys in there who really know their shit, and have backlogues of studies they have researched, you should contribute there too, the initial predictable chaos has died down, the only people posting now seem legit

Working in a team of researchers, mass research, now that was what the internet was made for...

Keep your thread here clean but when you get stuck check over that discussion for avenues you may have missed...
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Re: T-cells & Stem cells

Post  Smurfy on Sat Jul 01, 2017 6:15 am

I read through both your threads on that site, I admire that you keep putting up with those brick walls, even though you repeat the same thing over and over it seems. And I totally lol'd when you said I wouldn't post there cause too many retards. That made my week Very Happy

Here, enjoy!

Dihydrotestosterone inhibits hair growth in mice by inhibiting insulin-like growth factor-I production in dermal papillae.

We demonstrated that insulin-like growth factor-I (IGF-I) production in dermal papillae was increased and hair growth was promoted after sensory neuron stimulation in mice. Although the androgen metabolite dihydrotestosterone (DHT) inhibits hair growth by negatively modulating growth-regulatory effects of dermal papillae, relationship between androgen metabolism and IGF-I production in dermal papillae is not fully understood. We examined whether DHT inhibits IGF-I production by inhibiting sensory neuron stimulation, thereby preventing hair growth in mice. Effect of DHT on sensory neuron stimulation was examined using cultured dorsal root ganglion (DRG) neurons isolated from mice. DHT inhibits calcitonin gene-related peptide (CGRP) release from cultured DRG neurons. The non-steroidal androgen-receptor antagonist flutamide reversed DHT-induced inhibition of CGRP release. Dermal levels of IGF-I and IGF-I mRNA, and the number of IGF-I-positive fibroblasts around hair follicles were increased at 6h after CGRP administration. DHT administration for 3weeks decreased dermal levels of CGRP, IGF-I, and IGF-I mRNA in mice. Immunohistochemical expression of IGF-I and the number of proliferating cells in hair follicles were decreased and hair re-growth was inhibited in animals administered DHT. Co-administration of flutamide and CGRP reversed these changes induced by DHT administration. These observations suggest that DHT may decrease IGF-I production in dermal papillae by inhibiting sensory neuron stimulation through interaction with the androgen receptor, thereby inhibiting hair growth in mice.

So we can possibly conclude that DHT doesn't harm follicles, it just wipes out the essential growth factors. Now, we also know that DHT blockers don't regenerate follicles. Is it possible to think that therefore those follicles have inadequate growth factors to regenerate? Maybe all they need is their IGF back? It's oversimplified, but logical.

I think people who have tried IGF and growth factor supplements who haven't got anything from them might still have high androgen levels, so it's depleted, so they conclude IGF does nothing. How about those who have taken measures to reduce localized DHT?

What I'm getting at is... might a topical DHT reducer + IGF promoter be enough to kick start growth? Recall the last study regarding IGF and Tregs? Granted there is obviously something internally causing this, but if we work locally, we can at least work on the hair loss portion of our hormonal problem.

Insulin-like growth factor-1 induces regulatory T cell-mediated suppression of allergic contact dermatitis in mice

Estradiol decreases IGF-1 and IGF-1 receptor expression in rat aortic smooth muscle cells. Mechanisms for its atheroprotective effects.

IGF-I alters lymphocyte survival and regeneration in thymus and spleen after dexamethasone treatment.

Insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) is a growth factor for the immune system, increasing lymphocyte number and function via greater lymphocyte generation and/or survival. We investigated the effects of IGF-I on lymphocyte survival and regeneration in the thymus and spleen after dexamethasone (Dex) treatment in rats maintained with parenteral nutrition and given recombinant human IGF-I (800 micrograms/day) for 12 h, 48 h, and 5 days. IGF-I did not prevent Dex-induced apoptosis of thymocytes but reduced cell death in the spleen at 12 and 48 h. IGF-I exerted a modest protective effect (10-15% reduction in cell loss) on all splenic T and B cell subsets examined by flow cytometry. IGF-I enhanced recovery of CD4+8+ immature T cells in the thymus and decreased the proportion of CD8+ (cytotoxic/suppressor) T cells in the spleen. In rats not treated with Dex, IGF-I significantly increased total lymphocyte number and the number of CD4+8+ T cells in thymus and spleen. Our results suggest that IGF-I may alter homeostasis in the immune system by modulating lymphocyte generation and survival.

Related:

Role of systemic and local IGF-I in the effects of estrogen on growth and epithelial proliferation of mouse uterus.

IGF-I is a critical regulator of uterine growth, and locally produced uterine IGF-I could mediate the effects of 17beta-E2 on growth and cellular proliferation. We used IGF-I knockout (KO) mice and tissue grafting to determine the roles of local and systemic IGF-I in uterine growth and E2 responsiveness. Uteri from adult KO mice and neonatal and adult wild-type (WT) mice were grown under the renal capsule of female athymic mice for 4 wk. Initial uterine weights of adult KO and neonatal WT mice were 5% or less of those of adult WT uteri. Weights of adult WT uterine grafts did not increase during grafting. Weights of adult KO and neonatal WT uteri exposed to normal systemic levels of IGF-I in athymic hosts increased 20- to 30-fold to equal or exceed those of adult WT grafts. Uterine epithelial height, reduced in KO mice, was restored to WT levels in KO uteri grafted into athymic hosts. The absence of local IGF-I production in KO uteri did not impair E2- induced epithelial proliferation in KO uterine grafts. Neonatal WT uteri grafted into KO hosts showed minimal growth, providing evidence that local uterine IGF-I production is insufficient to support uterine growth in the absence of systemic IGF-I. E2 treatment of KO females produced minimal uterine growth, confirming that lack of IGF-I, rather than E2, caused the uterine hypoplasia. In summary, systemic IGF-I supports normal uterine growth and E2 response in the absence of local IGF-I. Local IGF-I is not a direct mediator of E2 action in uterus, and systemic IGF-I may be more important than previously thought for growth of the uterus and other tissues.
I look forward to solving baldness with you in the near future. Smile
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Re: T-cells & Stem cells

Post  Benjamin Button on Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:13 am


IGF-1 is important. But I read Brian (immortal) say that too much might not be good either.
And he says ecklonia cava raises igf1 300% whilst attenuating DHT production.

But like you said it will be counteracting the damage being done by DHT, but it doesn't really get to 1) why DHT is so offensive to us and not to other men, and 2) why our immune system is not signalling stem cells to become progenater cells.

While we're talking supps, Brian says bovine colostrum raises the cd34+ cells that we lack. Not sure if they are related to immune cells, or are hair progenater cells activated by immune cells.
Also cd200 cells we lack activated by taking modified citrus pectin to detox lead.

But I'm half assedly typin this one finger iPad, fallin asleep.
Have to check the links between
Cd200 and cd34+, the immune system, tregs, igf1, stem cells and progenater cells...

When your emotionally compromised by hair loss and tackling buckets of science your not familiar with, it feels like trying to do a crossword inside a washing machine.
But this puzzle is leaving a foot print, a footprint professionals don't seem to give a fuck about.
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Re: T-cells & Stem cells

Post  Benjamin Button on Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:36 am

Altering sex hormones can reverse Norwood 6, to full head of hair, proving the bald scalp can in fact regenerate. This guy was 30 so perhaps window still open before scalp completely 'fucked' for want of a better word.

http://imgur.com/gallery/3DNJp

..and scroll down till you find same person again here...

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/great-success-transgender-hair-regrowth.103799/page-2


regardless of anything else this is incredible proof that damage can be totally reversed.

I already suspected this given the amazing regrowth of taeian on spiro and cocktail of steroids and basically an immortal regimen..

https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=160444941
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Re: T-cells & Stem cells

Post  Smurfy on Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:58 am

I've seen that link before, it's amazing, and it's great evidence that something is effective. But to keep this conversation on topic, how do you think spiro etc. relates to stem cells and/or tregs? If they are involved? (it's really just anyones guess, but nice to hear theories)

But in regards to IGF-1, I'm only thinking locally, not systemic because tumors and such. Oh and ecklonia cava is great stuff...

As of last night, I began trialing a growth factor serum topically. If I notice anything, I'll report it back here.
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Re: T-cells & Stem cells

Post  bocor on Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:56 am

Just read a study on grape seed extract and how it upregulates regulatory T cells tregs

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