Display results as :

Rechercher Advanced Search

Check Out Our Sponsors
Brought to you by
Hair Loss Forum
Latest topics
» Inflammation - Best supplements to counteract
Today at 1:08 am by bocor

» Trying to increase vitamin K2- Opinions on Butter oil
Yesterday at 5:37 pm by Hairbeback

» Aloe Vera Juice Safety Help?
Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:40 am by johndoe1225

» Idea on silicon gel
Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:42 am by CausticSymmetry

» Regrowth Photos DT-CPR method
Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:39 pm by cdto2012

» Henry Miller GMO proponent dropped by forbes for lying/ghostwriting bias for GMOs
Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:15 am by Delphine

» About to lose a tooth - advice needed
Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:07 am by Delphine

» Beginning my oil pulling journey
Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:02 am by Delphine

» Tinctures?
Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:10 am by Sage 1


My current perspective on male pattern baldness, Humor me

Go down

My current perspective on male pattern baldness, Humor me

Post  Benjamin Button on Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:26 am

I need to put into words my best guess as to whats really going on with male pattern baldness. Like I said, humor me by reading with an open yet discerning attitude. What I propose is a model of hairloss that is one major step more refined than mainstream theory, but along the same lines as the general ethos that is espoused by Immortal, that it is avoidable by natural means and a bad decision to take pharmaceuticals for.
However I must acknowledge the fundamental differences in my view herein.

When a phenomenon as pervasive as "male pattern baldness" exists, with an effect so clear cut, identifiable and distinct, the fundamental causative factors must be specific and common to all...  as in any system, 20% of the variables are responsible for 80% of the result.
Right off the bat then it is my instinct to disagree with the proposal that there are completely unrelated causes of the exact same phenotype.

Simply put I think that male pattern baldness is an outcome with a primary driving force common to the vast majority. Something specific is going wrong to cause this result.

ok, I don't think we can deny that some guys have it coming for them with a vengeance in their teens, yet other guys blast steroids, eat shit, and have amazing hair well into old age. So lets get rid of the idea that any of us "caused this to happen" by some neglect.

Some people are definitely predisposed to this. and some people are not.
Now, I'm not saying theres a specific gene that does this. I won't even say that DHT does this. I'm saying some of us seem to have less of a defense against this thing.


Lets think about this as a spectrum of vulnerability to hairloss, with the vast majority of men keeping most their hair, til the age of 50 with moderate loss, 15% of total suffering no loss, and 15% getting their hair wiped out in their teens.

Studies find no single gene responsible, but identify the presence of several genes increasing likelihood of mpb.

We also know that 5 ar enzyme converts testosterone to DHT in scalp tissue which binds to Androgen receptor resulting in scalp hair miniaturization in and hirsuitism in the vulnerable.
Yet DHT does not seem to affect non balding men.

So, in the past we came to the conclusion that DHT was the cause and we should just knock it out. What happened? (aside from chemical castration/depression).
Well the hairloss, stopped...  but it never really grows back. This is and important piece of the puzzle

Under normal circumstances the hair organ is one of the only organs that regenerate over and over again throughout life. After it miniturises, it comes back again. When everything works correctly.

In those predisposed to baldness, everything does not work correctly. in fact a cascade of negative events occour, resulting in a DHT induced inflamation, and a follicle that does not regenerate.


The "normal man" keeps his hair in his youth, and the vast majority of normal men have a degree of male pattern baldness as the age past 50. The guys who never lose any hair at all are the minority.
Mild Male pattern balding is a natural degeneration of the system as part of aging.

Some of us are lose the hairloss battle emphatically, because of a specific cause.

DHT is implicated but not the fundamental cause. everybody has DHT yet they don't lose all their hair. everybody is sensitive to DHT yet they recover in the next hair cycle, we don't.

So what I'm getting at is that DHT is a problem for in all men but some men can process the damage it does, and regenerate the hair organ readily.

So, to reiterate:

DHT mediaiated hairloss comes at all of us (even the non bald), yet some of us are able to physiologically "cope" with the problem and never lose more hair than we regenerate.
...And even when we pull DHT out of the equation with drugs, we still don't regenerate the lost hair, we just retard the progression.

Again to be clear, in men predisposed to balding, androgens seem especially inflammatory and there destructiveness goes unabated by any protective mechanism. And even if we eradicate DHT we don't regenerate hair organs.


So it is clear, that DHT is implicated.

But it is also clear that it is not the full story.

The full story is thatALL MEN are in a hair-loss battle with DHT being implicated. The difference is they naturally winning and maintaining the hairline, yet we are getting our asses kicked.

Why? why are we predisposed to lose the hairloss battle?

Because we are missing something.

I'll say that again....  because we are missing something. not because we have a bad gene, but rather because we are missing a good one. Maybe it's not a gene, maybe it's something else.

But the point is we are losing the battle because whatever biological force protects us from androgen induced inflammation, gives rise to pro-hair hormones, and regenerates a terminal healthy follicle is MISSING.


So, what are we missing? what molecular star player is absent from the playing field?

well at the moment I've got a hunch it might be the T-reg cell function, but maybe its not. I'm willing to bet money it's something very similar if not tregs.

Tregs are stimulated by IGF1 which we know induces hair growth,
we recently found out jag1 dysfunction means tregs can't communicate with hair stem cells to induce hair growth.
And obviously tregs would protect us from inflammation.

Tregs are just an example of what it could be that we are missing. but if it's not the Tregs then it's likely a one variable component, that would offer us inflammation protection, pro-hair hormone environement, and rapid regeneration after follicle destruction.

DHT is massively implicated here, but it more like a 10 year old bully who reeking havoc in the classroom because the teachers gone missing. if the "teacher" was there, he wouldn't be that much of a problem.
Benjamin Button

Posts : 58
Join date : 2015-09-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: My current perspective on male pattern baldness, Humor me

Post  MovieJunkie89 on Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:14 pm

Good post. The problem is there are several underlying factors for each and everyone's hair loss. You can either choose to treat the root causes (This is often difficult because it takes time to find out what the root causes actually are) or you can treat the symptoms (Lack of oxygen, Poor Blood flow, Excess DHT, DHT sensitivity etc). I consider what I did as treating the symptoms.

The number one thing I would recommend is to do everything in your power to go after calcification in your scalp and in your body. Calcification and Fibrosis are two major obstacles in one being able to regrow their hair.

For scalp: Intense DT Massage (2x a day), Magnesium Oil, Topical GrapeFruit Seed Extract (This stuff is very powerful). Be aggressive in breaking down calcium deposits in your scalp.

For body: Vitamin K2, Vitamin D3, Magnesium, IH's Decalcify etc

Once you've begun to break down calcification in your scalp begin to use natural products to regrow your hair. Use the Green tea/coconut shampoo (Add some Rosemary to the mixture to strengthen it). Leave it on for 30 minutes.

I legitimately feel most ppl will see great improvement in their hair if they follow the aforementioned steps. However, nothing works the same for everyone so no guarantees obviously.

The other things I would recommend is ensuring your thyroid is functioning properly, detoxing heavy metals, avoiding over masturbating etc.

Alright I'm going to cut this post short here as my mind has gone blank haha. Hopefully this post helps someone.


Posts : 214
Join date : 2015-02-24

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: My current perspective on male pattern baldness, Humor me

Post  iuyyighghghgkh on Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:59 am

Don't forget the apple vinegar


Posts : 1595
Join date : 2014-05-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: My current perspective on male pattern baldness, Humor me

Post  MovieJunkie89 on Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:06 am

Prague's posts were on the money, great poster. I strongly suggest reading through his posts.
Prague wrote:i'll forward a msg i sent via PM:

there are many ways of reversing MPB

yet, they are very simple and free most of them - which is a problem since ppl are not ready to believe

1)colloidal silver topically
2)clay water with some luck
3)topical onion, garlic
4)H202 therapy
6)cold showers, especially cold showers of your testicles and your head
7)prostate massage, prostate contractions
8)stinging foods consumption
9)garlic in alcohol (you can simply cut garlic in pieces, and splash it with a shot of alcohol into your throat)
10)sodium borate therapy, salts therapy (magnesium sulphate, bicarbonate, sea salt...°
11)oil pulling with some luck
12)acid (lemon, ACV, balsamic - the one that feels the best for you, giving you sort of electrifying feeling is right for you) with sufficient zinc/copper consumption
13)enzymes (even saliva swallowing works to some degree)
14)positively charged Zn - Cu topically, Cu - Ag - Au as well

concerning the colloidal silver topically, it's a good idea to power it up internally - with some of the remedies mentioned above, H202, germanium, sodiulm borate, bicarbonates, lemon would be my first choice

This is also a great read


Posts : 214
Join date : 2015-02-24

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: My current perspective on male pattern baldness, Humor me

Post  Hairbeback on Thu Jun 22, 2017 3:48 pm

Is there a reason to put the Garlic in Alcohol?


Posts : 873
Join date : 2009-04-02

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: My current perspective on male pattern baldness, Humor me

Post  MovieJunkie89 on Sat Jul 01, 2017 4:09 am

Back to the topic of treating symptoms vs treating the root causes of MPB. Like I said earlier in this thread one could go after calcification/fibrosis with manual methods and supplementation (Treating symptoms) or you can try to go after the root causes of your hair loss. These are some posts from JDP some of you will find useful:
ubraj wrote:

Yes, a lot of things help hair loss but only a few are strong enough to halt hair loss.  Further, most methods just manage the symptoms but once you stop the regimen, hair loss eventually will come back.

I'm going to miss a lot because can't really condense the info into one post but in short this is what worked for me:

4. "Very" high doses of Saw Palmetto (the right saw palmetto). Interestingly, that may also reduce mold as well, lol. A good shampoo that works for you. General healthy eating, stress free life and increasing scalp circulation.  This slowed hair loss to a crawl.

3. LLLT mostly but with topical anti microbials such as grapefruit seed extract or topical 2% Lugol's, Iodine, focusing on thyroid, general detox/chelation.

2. An extremely strict diet.  This gets very complicated but the best news is that such a strict diet is really only needed for 6 - 12 months until enough healing has taken place then can go back to eating "small" quantities of other foods that once caused problems in the past.  

1. Reduce pathogens/mold which also includes detox/chelation as reducing pathogens without detox won't do much. You see, in general many issues come from the bodies immune response and also from the toxins.  Also, positively charged mineral issues as well.  

It's really best to listen to people such as Dr. Lloyd, Dr. Sutherland, Dr. Klinghardt, newport and others and all the others that pass along the info and experiences from them when it comes to #1.  That's all I'm doing when I post info on this forum.  I just post the short version so that others don't have to spend so much time reading or listening to conferences.

hope this helps

ubraj wrote:I should also mention because I know most feel this is a giant puzzle but for those who don't know what's behind their hair loss or what's behind their ill health or whatever, they should get a photo analysis from Jeff Sutherland or Saliva Sample from Dr. Loyd.  Even newport has an EPFX to check with and Dietrich Klinghardt has his own version of testing.  

While I've never done it myself, considering how much time and experimenting it can take, it's really a small price to pay to get Dr. Loyd's saliva sample to find out what the main issue is.

ubraj wrote:
Louise wrote:Please share your success with IH 6 or manual methods, topicals Very Happy  etc........

1.  Around 2008 or 2007, I stopped taking "massive" quantities of Saw Palmetto after 8 - 12 years.  This slowed hair loss to a crawl where hair loss was not a problem.  I don't recommend DHT inhibition with new information nowadays however.  

2.  Mid 2008/2009, found LLLT, combined with a good antimicrobial topical (such as grapefruit seed extract) and magnesium oil rubbed into hair stopped hair loss with regrowth.  I recommend about 400 lasers in an OMG style helmet.  More than that, and it gets too heavy.  

LLLT is one of if not the best ways to reverse the anagen (growth) to telogen (rest) ratio.  This is important as those without hair loss have a very high ratio of hairs in the anagen phase (growth phase) and a few percentage in telogen phase (rest phase).  Those with hair loss this ratio is reversed... most hairs are resting and not growing.  

Topical full strength nutribiotic grapefruit seed extract is one of best antimicrobial topicals but is so acidic that it will help with tissue calcification.  

Magnesium has a synergy with LLLT.  IMO, from an eastern perspective, considering LLLT and biophotons, LLLT should be used by those with are open minded that the treatment will work/receptive.  Those who are not listening or watching or living in a very negative/hostile environment.  LLLT should be used after a shower (preferably cold and not too hot for this and other reasons).  

3.  Later, I found an extremely strict diet has the ability to stop hair loss.  No cheating on a food that one has a sensitivity to.  Diet gets extremely complicated but in short, I'd recommend an elimination diet.  Google has more info on this.  

4.  Found Rife combined with chelation and diet to get the best results and the origin of hair loss IMO.  What I mean is there is an autoimmunish reaction going on with hair loss.  To stop this autoimmune reaction and reduce the pathogens involved in autoimmune reactions chelation as well as diet will reduce a great percentage of pathogens.  But to get even better results, have to target the pathogens which is causing the autoimmune reaction.  Mold as probably an even bigger issue than pathogens based on Dr. Loyds work.  One probably doesn't even need a Rife machine to get the results that I got.  Dr. Loyd has found specific combination of herbs and such to inhibit specific pathogens, dental issues, autoimmune issues, etc. for those that don't have much money.

In short, I believe androgenic alopecia is just a more complicated version of alopecia areata.  Or to put it another way, I believe androgenic alopecia is similar to what goes on with dandruff but there becomes an autoimmune reaction with androgenic alopecia whereas dandruff there is not.  The reason?  Different pathogens involved IMO.

Sure one can stop dandruff with killing the malassezia yeast and there are many ways to stop dandruff.... including methods on making the terrain healthy.  Same occurs with androgenic alopecia.  One can stop androgenic alopecia by focusing on the terrain and should focus on the terrain for long-term results.  Basically, one can stop hair loss by a great many methods as shown on this forum over the years.  

The best results usually comes from those who have done a bunch of experimentation as well as research.  I believe this is important for anyone with an autoimmune ailment which MPB is very closely one IMO.  That way, one will know what to do when there is that inevitable fork in the road.  Or they hit a brick wall and they don't know how to get over it.  They'll get over it or follow the correct bend in the road if they have enough knowledge on what to do next.  And that's the real secret to stopping hair loss IMO/IME... having done enough research and experimentation.  Don't blindly follow a regimen.  Have to understand each protocol and why it would work.  One can blindly follow a DHT inhibition regimen and get results but not when focusing on other ways of stopping hair loss IMO.

hope this helps and good luck.


Posts : 214
Join date : 2015-02-24

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: My current perspective on male pattern baldness, Humor me

Post  MovieJunkie89 on Sat Jul 01, 2017 4:15 am

I'm considering taking the Saliva test JDP recommended. Although my hair is in damn good shape it just is not realistic for me to do manuals and rely on topicals for the rest of my life. Both the Elimination diet and Saliva Test are steps aimed at beating MPB by going after the root causes.

This is a sample of the Saliva test:


Posts : 214
Join date : 2015-02-24

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: My current perspective on male pattern baldness, Humor me

Post  Sponsored content

Sponsored content

Back to top Go down

Back to top

- Similar topics

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum