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Deeper down the rabbit hole of hair loss

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Deeper down the rabbit hole of hair loss

Post  Hairbeback on Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:32 pm

As you may know I have suffered from hair loss for almost 12 years. I still have hair on the top but its 80 percent gone, the crown is completely gone. It does still have small blonde baby hairs.

It got me thinking.....I developed a permanent ringing in my right ear. I've had it for 4 1/2 years. It wasn't caused by loud music because I rarely went to concerts or loud clubs unless it was an occasion.

It got me thinking about the blood flow theory.....it connected for me. My blood flow is probably poor to my head ( My head goes numb usually in the back and side along upside of the collar bone.

Tinnitus has a few causes, one is poor blood flow to that part of ear. Again....the blood flow theory. I have dilated capallaires on my nose. That is due to them losing elasticity.

I've come to the conclusion that I have poor blood flow to my scalp and will now do everything in my power to reverse and eventually heal it for good. I am going to start simple massges, nutrition and breaking up the calcification in the scalp crown and temples....

It might sound super simplistic but I believe I had my own personal aha moment

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Re: Deeper down the rabbit hole of hair loss

Post  SonofOdin on Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:37 pm

I feel like regular cardiovascular exercise if not overdone, can be beneficial to the hair. Exercise improves blood flow and gets things moving. Just a suggestion, and the worst case scenario is you end up getting more in shape Smile
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Re: Deeper down the rabbit hole of hair loss

Post  Hairbeback on Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:44 pm

I agree bro....it was like a epiphany for me personally....I was reading up on atherosclerosis, tinnitus, capillaries and hair loss. Main theme is hardening off arteries, lack of blood flow, capillaries etc, plague build up

I had some on my teeth the post is still in the archive. its coming full circle (to make a plan to go to war with hair loss)

Top that with me waking up with half my head falling asleep....from the neck up.....yea I think I have a few new clues to work with

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Re: Deeper down the rabbit hole of hair loss

Post  Xenon on Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:10 am

For me, heavy cardiovascular exercise is possibly one of the worst initiators of inflammation throughout scalp. If I exercise each day consecutively, my hair begins falling out (within a week) like no man's business. In fact, I first noticed this back in 1994 when I was a mere 15 years old. I was training in martial arts at the time -- absolutely grueling exercises, and after each session I noticed how much my temples / hairline were "stinging" but I didn't know what was going on. One particular day, I'm in martial arts, I look in one of the large wall mirrors and noticed I'd gained some forehead. From thereon shit got worse and worse until I began taking notice of specific lifestyle factors that were causing the "stinging" (inflammation), and eventually slowed down my loss and brought it to a halt. But grueling exercise was not the only trigger, it's just that I found it to be one of the factors that seemed to cause the worst damage. Inflammation from masturbating is much, much tame by comparison. I don't want to scare anyone away from fitness, I just found that I must sacrifice my hair if I want to get fit. Why does this happen? It could be related to release of cytokines when muscles become overworked. I'm thus assuming that they begin homing in on follicles containing these cytokine (CRTH2) receptors. I also had to change jobs, and can't do anything overly physical or, again, buh bye hair.

P.S. FWIW Almost all of the guys I trained with in martial arts have gone completely bald. One particular guy I just didn't believe it would happen to because he had such a thick, healthy head of hair back in the day, but now cue ball bald.
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Re: Deeper down the rabbit hole of hair loss

Post  Hairbeback on Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:01 pm

I just don't buy your anecdote no disrespect or anything

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Re: Deeper down the rabbit hole of hair loss

Post  Xenon on Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:39 pm

Hairbeback wrote:I just don't buy your anecdote no disrespect or anything

Not anecdote, what I've presented to you has scientific merit, and I know this because of 1. personal observation 2. diligent research 3. not buying into anecdotal evidence. Heavy exercise leads to the release of pro-inflammatory cytokines (hence sore muscles); these cytokines bind to CRTH2 receptors of the hair follicles and cause them to inflame.

No disrespect to you either, but you've been a board member since 2009 and lost a whopping 80% of your hair since you've been here, yet I've retained around 80% of mine since I took action in the late 90's (and even regrew some) because I carefully observed lifestyle factors involved in causing scalp inflammation and subsequent hairloss. I'd say my "anecdotes" have served me pretty well.

Good luck with your massages, and hope you recover your loss.
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Re: Deeper down the rabbit hole of hair loss

Post  Xenon on Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:39 am

P.S. Here's some "anecdotal" evidence for you to digest. In future, I suggest you learn to exercise your observational skills, then do some research, perhaps then you wont lose 80% of your hair and ignorantly accuse people of presenting anecdotes when they are trying to help you out from the ditch you threw yourself into.

Exercise and cytokines

"Strenuous exercise induces increased levels in a number of pro-inflammatory and anti-inflammatory cytokines, naturally occurring cytokine inhibitors and chemokines. Thus, increased plasma levels of TNF-α, IL-1, IL-6, IL-1receptor antagonist, TNF receptors, IL-10, IL-8 and macrophage inflammatory protein-1 are found after strenuous exercise. The concentration of IL-6 increases up to 100-fold after a marathon race. The increase in IL-6 is tightly related to the duration of the exercise and there appears to be a logarithmic relationship. Furthermore, the increase in IL-6 is related to the intensity of exercise. Given the facts that IL-6, more than any other cytokine, is produced in large amounts in response to exercise, that IL-6 is produced locally in the skeletal muscle in response to exercise and that IL-6 is known to have growth factor abilities, it is likely that IL-6 plays a beneficial role and may be involved in mediating exercise-related metabolic changes."

Now read about IL-6 involvement in baldness and how DHT / PGD2 are potent inducers of this pro-inflammatory cytokine.

Dihydrotestosterone-Inducible IL-6 Inhibits Elongation of Human Hair Shafts by Suppressing Matrix Cell Proliferation and Promotes Regression of Hair Follicles in Mice
Author links open overlay panelMi HeeKwack1Ji SupAhn2Moon KyuKim1Jung ChulKim1Young KwanSung1
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https://doi.org/10.1038/jid.2011.274Get rights and content
Under an Elsevier user licenseopen archive
Autocrine and paracrine factors are produced by balding dermal papilla (DP) cells following dihydrotestosterone (DHT)-driven alterations and are believed to be key factors involved in male pattern baldness. Herein we report that the IL-6 is upregulated in balding DP cells compared with non-balding DP cells. IL-6 was upregulated 3 hours after 10Ė100 nM DHT treatment, and ELISA showed that IL-6 was secreted from balding DP cells in response to DHT. IL-6 receptor (IL-6R) and glycoprotein 130 (gp130) were expressed in follicular keratinocytes, including matrix cells. Recombinant human IL-6 (rhIL-6) inhibited hair shaft elongation and suppressed proliferation of matrix cells in cultured human hair follicles. Moreover, rhIL-6 injection into the hypodermis of mice during anagen caused premature onset of catagen. Taken together, our data strongly suggest that DHT-inducible IL-6 inhibits hair growth as a paracrine mediator from the DP.

Prostaglandin D2 induces interleukin-6 synthesis via Ca2+ mobilization in osteoblasts: regulation by protein kinase C.

Tokuda H1, Kozawa O, Harada A, Uematsu T.
Author information
Abstract
We previously showed that prostaglandin (PG) D2 stimulates Ca2+ influx from extracellular space and activates phosphoinositidic (PI)-hydrolyzing phospholipase C and phosphatidylcholine (PC)-hydrolyzing phospholipase D independently from PGE2 or PGF2alpha in osteoblast-like MC3T3-E1 cells. In the present study, we investigated the effect of PGD2 on the synthesis of interleukin-6 (IL-6) and its regulatory mechanism in MC3T3-E1 cells. PGD2 significantly stimulated IL-6 synthesis dose-dependently in the range between 10 nM and 10 microM. The depletion of extracellular Ca2+ by EGTA reduced the PGD2-induced IL-6 synthesis. TMB-8, an inhibitor of intracellular Ca2+ mobilization, significantly inhibited the PGD2-induced IL-6 synthesis. On the other hand, calphostin C, a specific inhibitor of protein kinase C (PKC), enhanced the synthesis of IL-6 induced by PGD2. In addition, U-73122, an inhibitor of phospholipase C, and propranolol, a phosphatidic acid phosphohydrolase inhibitor, enhanced the PGD2-induced IL-6 synthesis. These results strongly suggest that PGD2 stimulates IL-6 synthesis through intracellular Ca2+ mobilization in osteoblasts, and that the PKC activation by PGD2 itself regulates the over-synthesis of IL-6.


Me and my anecdotes, eh?
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Re: Deeper down the rabbit hole of hair loss

Post  long hair on Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:30 pm

dont forget the galya muscles ..this tired muscles would be a good source of pgd2 .
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Re: Deeper down the rabbit hole of hair loss

Post  Xenon on Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:37 pm

long hair wrote:dont forget the galya muscles ..this tired muscles would be a good source of pgd2 .

Yes, to an extent this might be a factor. PGD2 / IL-6 is said to be released via muscular contractions and oxygen tension. If we frown a great deal, then the frontalis muscles of the forehead are contracted lots, and possibly releasing lots of inflammatory substances. Some claim that botox injections into these muscles has helped to regrow hair. I don't know how true, but if so, then maybe due to keeping the muscles in a state of relaxation and reducing release of IL-6.
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Re: Deeper down the rabbit hole of hair loss

Post  shaftless on Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:07 am

I'm not sure about too much exercise being good. When I go on the treadmill and work up a good sweat my whole upper scalp is red as hell suggesting inflammation. Possibly from a rise in testosterone or adrenaline or histamine while exercising.

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Re: Deeper down the rabbit hole of hair loss

Post  Hairbeback on Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:53 pm

Pretty poor evidence is being spouted here. Now frowning might cause hair loss?

Next breathing will cause hair loss

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Re: Deeper down the rabbit hole of hair loss

Post  Sage 1 on Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:22 pm

Hairbeback wrote:Pretty poor evidence is being spouted here. Now frowning might cause hair loss?

Next breathing will cause hair loss

So true, and the over-analyzing on this or other forums for that matter is quiet alarming.

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Re: Deeper down the rabbit hole of hair loss

Post  Xenon on Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:31 pm

Hairbeback wrote:Pretty poor evidence is being spouted here. Now frowning might cause hair loss?

Next breathing will cause hair loss

^^Your Eureka! moment was when you had the "amazing epiphany" (after 12 years of balding), that massaging will bring all your hair back, and you think you have the authority to shallowly dismiss scientific studies without providing any of your own feedback as to why it's wrong? This level of deep seated ignorance is precisely why you have lost 80% of your hair, and cite massage as your only hope.

FYI Continuous massage - upon tissues situated over bony prominences - causes damage due to mechanical loading. Studies show that continued pressure upregulates pro-inflammatory genes and cytokines that inhibit hair growth. This is why I could confidently predict that the majority of DTrs (and boar brushers) would end up with worse hair loss.

And breathing in polluted air (and asphyxiant gas) is a factor in hair loss. It generally all boils down to things that trigger a heightened immune response. For instance, there are many guys on here who have reported scalp inflammation and hair loss from breathing in black mold spores. This particular issue has never personally affected me because I've never had household mold, but I don't doubt their testimonies whatsoever because I've experienced scalp inflammation from breathing in toxic bleach and paint fumes before. CS also made a point about atmospheric pollution being an enormous factor in the inflammatory response. He is correct.

"Recently, these findings have now been confirmed and extended in humans and additional animal models. Analysis of brain tissue from individuals residing in highly polluted areas show an increase in CD-68, CD-163, and HLA-DR positive cells (indicating infiltrating monocytes or resident microglia activation), elevated pro-inflammatory markers (Interleukin-1β, IL1-β; cycloxygenase 2, COX2), an increase in Aβ42 deposition (hallmark disease protein of Alzheimerís disease), blood-brain-barrier (BBB) damage, endothelial cell activation 27, and brain lesions in the prefrontal lobe 28. Interestingly, upregulation of pro-inflammatory markers such as COX2 and IL1-β, as well as the CD-14 marker for innate immune cells, were localized in frontal cortex, substantia nigra and vagus nerves 27. Further, animal studies have also shown that air pollution causes cytokine production 29, 30, increases in MAP kinase signaling through JNK 30, neurochemical changes 31, lipid peroxidation 32, behavior changes 32, and enhanced NFκβ expression 29. Together, these studies clearly indicate that air pollution has CNS effects."

What you're probably better off taking into account, the follicles (in MPB sufferers) are hyper-sensitive to inflammation due to an upregulation in immunological receptors and ability to produce on site inflammatory proteins. Whenever a stressor is present (including psychological), these cells will always inflame - just like the hyper-sensitive bronchial airways of asthmatic sufferers.

Anyway, with your double digit IQ, make of that what you will, and good luck in regrowing your hair (or, rather, not losing the remaining 20%)
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Re: Deeper down the rabbit hole of hair loss

Post  Hairbeback on Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:09 pm

I guess according to you, there is no way to reverse hair loss, but you remain on this board adamantly. Science doesn't solve everything or has come even close.

It will take more than massages to grow back my hair. Diet, Moderate exercise and plenty of sleep, and if needed some supplements.

You can cite flawed study after flawed study all you want.

Western rationalism and logic is going down the toilet, all these studies posted on here conflict with each other, very rarely mentioned is the placebo effect.

I'll do fine with my remaining "20 percent" I'm ethnic and I have the perfect head for it and have no problems getting the ladies.

Your fear mongering of uncompleted science is shameful. If I was CS I would ban you

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Re: Deeper down the rabbit hole of hair loss

Post  Hairbeback on Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:11 pm

And you shouldn't try to flame people who disagree with your poorly controlled studies you parrot around. If this was in real life I would of smacked you in to a coma

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Re: Deeper down the rabbit hole of hair loss

Post  CausticSymmetry on Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:19 am

Over the years I have observed some testimonies of what Xenon describes. I had the opportunity to study this in great depth.

This is quite real and there are some very logical explanations. I apologize in advance if this study has already been presented. It is just one example of many.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0165242707001791?via%3Dihub

Because everyone is different, a chronic inflammatory response is provoked by different causes. So in the case of exercise, it can alter prostanoid, prostaglandin and prolactin levels. Eliminating the cause is key, and that works differently in people.

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Re: Deeper down the rabbit hole of hair loss

Post  Xenon on Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:24 am

Hairbeback wrote:And you shouldn't try to flame people who disagree with your poorly controlled studies you parrot around. If this was in real life I would of smacked you in to a coma

Good luck in regrowing your hair.
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Re: Deeper down the rabbit hole of hair loss

Post  Xenon on Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:38 am

CausticSymmetry wrote:Over the years I have observed some testimonies of what Xenon describes. I had the opportunity to study this in great depth.

This is quite real and there are some very logical explanations. I apologize in advance if this study has already been presented. It is just one example of many.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0165242707001791?via%3Dihub

Because everyone is different, a chronic inflammatory response is provoked by different causes. So in the case of exercise, it can alter prostanoid, prostaglandin and prolactin levels. Eliminating the cause is key, and that works differently in people.

Cheers CS. The study you linked is pretty much identical to the one I presented on pro-inflammatory cytokine levels observed in marathon runners. I think the fundamental difference is - the ones who bald have a higher scalp sensitivity to these cytokines than those who don't bald (perhaps due to more receptors). I'd also say the latter have a higher number of progenitors which help follicles regenerate from injury faster.
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Re: Deeper down the rabbit hole of hair loss

Post  Hairbeback on Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:08 am

Xenon is a waste, he actually posted a study about air pollution. The world we live in will never be perfect. The guy has given up, I have read his past posts, dude is a loser who can't claim his own power back. As far as I am concerned he is useless

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Re: Deeper down the rabbit hole of hair loss

Post  Hairbeback on Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:09 am

Ah, I think we're all fucked whatever we do. Even if we got all of our hair back, it will be a short term security blanket because we're all going to decay and lose our looks regardless (then die), so, really, who cares? So what if women don't find us as physically attractive anymore? May as well just deal with it now and stop giving a fuck. Life is only a shitty temporary experience anyway, so may as well not make it any more shitty, worrying every fucking minute about baldness.

I'm throwing in the towel on all of this shit and never looking back.

Nice connecting, and best of luck, dudes.
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Re: Deeper down the rabbit hole of hair loss

Post  Hairbeback on Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:10 am

Don't get to caught up in the forest of logic, and poor science articles.....

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Re: Deeper down the rabbit hole of hair loss

Post  BobbyPin on Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:27 am

Hairbeback

while xenons ideas have never really resonated with me I certainly wouldn't tell him Id love to smack him into a coma. What really is wrong with you?? As far as i could see the man was trying to help you out. cs and another poster backed him up and instead of debating with them you resorted to an utterly childish smear attempt on xenon. sir you need to go see a shrink to help you deal with those twisted violent fantasies of yours before you end up beating your wife into a coma.

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Re: Deeper down the rabbit hole of hair loss

Post  Hairbeback on Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:22 pm

BobbyPin wrote:Hairbeback

while xenons ideas have never really resonated with me I certainly wouldn't tell him Id love to smack him into a coma. What really is wrong with you?? As far as i could see the man was trying to help you out. cs and another poster backed him up and instead of debating with them you resorted to an utterly childish smear attempt on xenon. sir you need to go see a shrink to help you deal with those twisted violent fantasies of yours before you end up beating your wife into a coma. †

I said his ideas didn't resonate with me too which he replied with a study, which is flawed by the way ( Do your own research)

He said I had a double digit IQ, and a few other things. Make sure you read the whole context of this thread before you hop on hid dick. On top of that clicking on his name shows he flamed multiple people on this website who don't agree with his one sided parroted studies that are flawed. His sarcastic reply trying to flame me shows a real lack of insecurity on his part. Throwing a tantrum because I don't buy his anecdote that exercise causes baldness/inflammation. causation is not correlation....and hair loss in a complex issue in itself

On top of that most scientific research is wrong

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1182327/
http://bigthink.com/neurobonkers/believe-it-or-not-most-published-research-findings-are-probably-false
http://reason.com/archives/2016/08/26/most-scientific-results-are-wrong-or-use
https://ethicalnag.org/2009/11/09/nejm-editor/


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Re: Deeper down the rabbit hole of hair loss

Post  Hairbeback on Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:23 pm

Sorry for trying to keep the board positive and not get put down by a bitter negative nancy loser who thinks he is always right

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Re: Deeper down the rabbit hole of hair loss

Post  Joey Ramone on Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:31 pm

Isnít Xenon the guy who keeps accusing posters who donít agree with him of being Complexx?

Weird dude. Dunno why he even posts here.

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