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Detumescence Reloaded

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Re: Detumescence Reloaded

Post  Xenon on Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:25 pm

Very Happy
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Re: Detumescence Reloaded

Post  Xenon on Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:08 pm

Perhaps hat wearing, stretched skin over scalp,   pillow compression, and   other long term pressure is not good for hair bearing tissue, and may very well lead to hair loss.   This is very different than a few seconds of pressure to regenerate the skin.

So, all you are in fact doing is adding to mechanical stress, even if you're doing it for a few seconds per press. What is the point of this when we know that mech force is deleterious to hair health? This is the equivalent of putting your hand in a pan of boiling water, then, for good measure, putting your scalded hand in a hot oven. Where's the logic?

It's blatantly obvious to anyone Choy - the originator of this method - was lying through his teeth, and the ideas therein wouldn't even be fit enough to be classed as pseudo science. Therefore, I have to ask you, CD, what made you  even bother having faith in this to begin with? None of it makes any sense.

Myself? I think you're shilling for someone, and have been using minox or fin. I mean, JohnDoe has been doing this since 2015, he lost more hair. Hotspur and many others followed similar regimens and reported the same results. These guys are younger and haven't been balding for 20 years, yet you - an older guy - claims positive results??

Why should you be the exception to the rule?
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Re: Detumescence Reloaded

Post  Hairbeback on Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:26 am

Hotsperm can't even read a scientific study, he is too busy at the altar of his hero vegan propagandist dr greger cause "i'm vegan bro"

Xenon yo're a pseudo skeptic nihilist, you should just leave the board honestly. Your family must hate you

If someone is diagnosed with terminal cancer and has no hope to live, but their cancer goes in to remission which does happen they are they exceptions aren't they?

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Re: Detumescence Reloaded

Post  cdto2012 on Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:32 am

Xenon mentioned burning the skin as a parallel to demonstrate that all mechanical pressure applied to the scalp has the same detrimental effect;  not matter the duration or method of application.

My response is that even with skin burning, if it is done with lasers for a brief amount of time and precision injury; results in skin regeneration. It is like trying to convince somebody from the 1950s that precision injury burns produce skin regeneration, and they keep saying not possible - I can show you my water burned hands, all burns are the same .

https://www.webmd.com/beauty/laser-resurfacing#1
"Erbium laser resurfacing is designed to remove surface-level and moderately deep lines and wrinkles on the face, hands, neck, or chest. One of the benefits of erbium laser resurfacing is minimal burning of surrounding tissue."

-----

Next related point.  
One of the foundations of Xenons theory is that the effects of mechanical stress apply only if the scalp is already in a state to lose hair. Everybody knows that women with great hair sleep on pillows,  wear hats, even carry heavy bags (or pots on head in some countries) , and do not have bald spots where the pressure was .

So the assumption that people that already are likely to lose their hair ,  will lose it if they apply mechanical pressure, is not much of a revelation.  I even agree,  if you are losing your hair you do not want to do anything that will restrict oxygen, blood flow, or oil release.    

The difference is that with my pressing method, is the result is opposite.  There is more blood flow,  oil release, and the skin is cleaner to breathe and regenerate.

As to why I get the results and few others have reported the same. First is that regular massage will not break up the sharp pains felt under the skin when pressed.  It is most likely a problem to have these probable calcium deposits.  Until you endure the pain to press these out over the months, you have not passed stage one.  They may be calcium plaque deposits reducing blood flow to hair follicles.   When this is achieved there will not be sharp pain when pressing at 15 pounds pressure.

Secondly is the longevity of the process of natural  regrow.  For most they are already having shed.  Of course pressing may well add to this shed , as most effective treatments invoke shedding. To have faith that it will all be worth it is a leap of faith.  My photos are slow progress, and hardly highschool quality restoration.  Just evidence of concept so far,  yes the method does slowly regrow hair, and a few terminal hairs in the focus area.  I have hundreds of new terminal hairs across my scalp,  but very hard to sort out new from old in a photo.  There are hundreds of hairs visible in the grafts area now,  not just the very few pictured in the before photos.

So the summary is that very few have claimed to even try my method.  Of those that did there are a few that say that it helps reduce their hairloss.  John Doe is a repeat on your part from past threads,  every time you say that he got nowhere with the treatment,  John has to come on an say the same thing,  he barely stuck to any schedule, took long breaks, did many other things, and certainly did nothing in time duration as I have.

Why did I have inspiration to start this high force method?   I had needled with minox before, and saw similar results of a few random hairs just popping out within the first few weeks. With pressing I saw the same thing,  of course no minox, just oils and natural extracts. Then the slow thickening of the base mat of hair began on the border areas.

So in conclusion , I think the Xenon has valid scientific evidence; if you want to assist reducing the speed of loss,  do not mechanically restrict your scalp resulting in reduced blood or oxygen flow; and be gentle with your scalp unless you know what your are doing.    
As for my method,  it is unique, precise enough, based on regeneration therapies like needling and laser restoration,  very well documented, and I have no reason to waste my time misrepresenting the journey.  It is not popular to tell people it will hurt like hell and take years.  I live in Thailand,  I have a great life, and plenty of money.   This is for those who want to see a real method to consider.  It will be different for everybody,  but my method is absolutely is working for me.

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Re: Detumescence Reloaded

Post  johndoe1225 on Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:41 pm

Hey cd, glad to have you chime in.  Yes, I've tried many different things and haven't stuck with one method for a long time.  For the last, maybe, two months I've been doing simple DT followed by hair pulling (hair pulling feels really great and relaxing if you do it right). I will probably get back to your method soon.

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Re: Detumescence Reloaded

Post  Hairbeback on Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:55 am

Ahhh its all starting to make sense

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Re: Detumescence Reloaded

Post  Xenon on Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:58 am

Yeh, but, CD, the point I was trying to make was, mech force from the pillow is already causing some injury byway of shear and friction. So, if this tissue is already injured, then the pill roll will just add to this already existing problem. And as we know AGA follicles already have issues with regenerating, and we believe this regeneration to be androgen / DHT mediated.

The pathophysiology is similar to how pressure sores form, albeit far less severe, yet, still does make it's mark internally because any tissues pressed against bony prominences will succumb to shear and friction injury.

Is it not so that the to and fro motion of your pill bottle technique would do just this? It, IMO, is just continuing where the pillow left off.

As for JohnDoe, let's face it, he was doing this method for ages, and, having lost more ground he naturally lost faith (understandably so), and started doing it less and less until he completely gave up. That's the reality of it, it's just that he has lots of respect for you, so doesn't want to offend you by telling you it failed him.

I, myself, don't like being offensive towards you because you do actually seem like a decent guy, and always respond in a mature and dignified manner, despite me being abrasive. But hey, there's just been way too many shady characters and all around shadiness connected to this method for me to ever believe it to be legit - despite the modifications you personally made.
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Re: Detumescence Reloaded

Post  Hotspur on Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:23 am

cdto2012 wrote:There is a big difference between temporary pressure and long term tissue compression.

Further to our discussion on temporary pressure and pillows. A word on so called tonic contractions.

In Segura's study, he noted:

'The involuntary tonic contraction of occipitofrontalis muscle is related to psychological stress conditions,[23] facial expression,[24] the maintenance of visual field,[19] and an aponeurotic tension model of human craniofacial growth.'

This reminded me of the following Danny Roddy post:



Wilhem Reich's quote implies these emotional traits and facial expressions are common among hair-loss sufferers ...

Once upon a time I laughed at this ^ Rob's paper, coupled with learning about Orthotropics, has given me a fresh perspective. Orthotropics outlines how tongue and mouth posture can influence the shape of our jaw and face over time.



Subtle shifts in posture can have a profound influence on our appearance. It isn't outlandish then to suggest tonic contractions in our facial muscles can influence our hairline -- If those muscles constrict the Occiptofrontalis as Segura suggests.

Rob's paper notes ancillary scalp muscles, the aurecular and temporal, may be at play in hair-loss. Segura outlines the anatomy of the occipitofrontalis. A muscle that originates at the eyebrows, extending to the hairline and crown.

Since we're discussing 'Pillow Pressure', I'll share an anecdote of my own.

I've suffered from muscular tension in the left hemisphere of my hairline for years. This is also where I've noted recession. After reading this research, I realized that tension originated from clenching the left side of my jaw during periods of stress.

Since I've noted this (and loosened up) that tension has all but disappeared. Just anecdotal. It is what it is.

Tonic (& chronic) contractions and muscular imbalances over time likely contribute to an uneven distribution of mechanical tension. This tension may account for the lopsided patterns of recession exhibited by some hair-loss sufferers.

Whatever your stance on Rob, his pathology model is more cohesive than the age old Androgen Hypothesis. Even as the best method to 'undo' mechanical tension, calcification and fibrosis is up for debate ...

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Re: Detumescence Reloaded

Post  Xenon on Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:09 am

Myself, I still believe the androgen hypothesis to be very much correct, it's just that many researchers tend to struggle in tying this in with other factors in AGA and presenting a unifying hairloss theory. I personally think that the androgen issue is pretty much the hub of the problem, in being that it prevents stem cells from maturing into progenitor cells -- cells required for terminal hair growth. When this happens the follicle is no longer 'impervious' to a myriad form of injuries (inflammation), and will just continue to deteriorate.

How is this problem solved? I do know of a way in which follicles can be triggered into producing terminal hairs (without any drugs), and I discussed this a long time ago; the only issue is, you could make yourself very ill in attempting to reactivate hair growth genes. Despite this, I've been throwing caution to the wind and giving this a second shot (despite falling very ill last week during my attempt), but I'll keep going until I see something positive.

Edited: As I've mentioned many times before, androgens are definitely involved in AGA because we only have to look at the number of F2M transsexuals who start experiencing baldness during T therapy. That's the smoking gun, right there.
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Re: Detumescence Reloaded

Post  Hotspur on Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:28 am

Xenon wrote:
I do know of a way in which follicles can be triggered into producing terminal hairs (without any drugs), and I discussed this a long time ago; the only issue is, you could make yourself very ill in attempting to reactivate hair growth genes. Despite this, I've been throwing caution to the wind and giving this a second shot (despite falling very ill last week during my attempt), but I'll keep going until I see something positive.

... Care to elaborate?

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Re: Detumescence Reloaded

Post  Xenon on Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:59 am

Hotspur wrote:
Xenon wrote:
I do know of a way in which follicles can be triggered into producing terminal hairs (without any drugs), and I discussed this a long time ago; the only issue is, you could make yourself very ill in attempting to reactivate hair growth genes. Despite this, I've been throwing caution to the wind and giving this a second shot (despite falling very ill last week during my attempt), but I'll keep going until I see something positive.

... Care to elaborate?

Not right now. I don't want to be responsible for anyone falling gravely ill. I will experiment for a few months and observe for any changes, then try to refine things so that you don't get sick when doing this. I know for certain that this method does produce terminal hair growth in non AGA cases, but if my thinking is correct, then the same principle should apply for AGA too.

Let's see.
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Re: Detumescence Reloaded

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