my hairline is getting crazy!

OK guys I will try it and report back - in a couple of weeks I will place my usual iherb order and add to it:
- papain externally (http://www.iherb.com/Life-Extension-Papain-Powder-100-g/16399?at=0)
- Hyaluronic acid - two questions:
1. what do you think about this one?
http://www.iherb.com/Source-Naturals-Skin-Eternal-Hyaluronic-Serum-30-ml-1-fl-oz/1318?at=0
2. how long would a oz last roughly (I usually order every 3 months)?
3. Any oil - no sure which one?

I'll also use bromain internally (e.g. http://www.iherb.com/Source-Naturals-Bromelain-600-GDU-Gram-500-mg-120-Tablets/963?at=0)

vade retro alopecia wrote:OK guys I will try it and report back - in a couple of weeks I will place my usual iherb order and add to it:
- papain externally (http://www.iherb.com/Life-Extension-Papain-Powder-100-g/16399?at=0)
- Hyaluronic acid - two questions:
1. what do you think about this one?
http://www.iherb.com/Source-Naturals-Skin-Eternal-Hyaluronic-Serum-30-ml-1-fl-oz/1318?at=0
2. how long would a oz last roughly (I usually order every 3 months)?
3. Any oil - no sure which one?

I'll also use bromain internally (e.g. http://www.iherb.com/Source-Naturals-Bromelain-600-GDU-Gram-500-mg-120-Tablets/963?at=0)

You should try a different papain because this one is not 100% pure, it has lactose added to it.
Check out this one:

http://www.iherb.com/Royal-Tropics-The-Original-Green-Papaya-Digestive-Aid-5-0-oz-141-7-g/16491?at=0

Yes, hopeful, that's the papain I am using.

Thanks for replying guys. Looking forward to hearing how everyone is making out and sharing information.

vade retro alopecia wrote:OK guys I will try it and report back - in a couple of weeks I will place my usual iherb order and add to it:
- papain externally (http://www.iherb.com/Life-Extension-Papain-Powder-100-g/16399?at=0)
- Hyaluronic acid - two questions:
1. what do you think about this one?
http://www.iherb.com/Source-Naturals-Skin-Eternal-Hyaluronic-Serum-30-ml-1-fl-oz/1318?at=0
2. how long would a oz last roughly (I usually order every 3 months)?

That's the one that I ordered. I like it. It has a really strong 'fruity-like' smell to it. It won't last long at all if you use it straight; I would mix it with a moisturizer or oil of some kind. It mixes really well with the 98% aloe moisturizer (Jason's brand on iherb I think) I use. How long it lasts will depend on how much you add to your topical and if you're going to use it on your face too. I don't think 1 bottle will last you 3 months IMO. I would get 2.

Approximately what amount of papain powder are you guys adding to what amount of oil.
What concentration of papain may be needed?

What I am thinking of doing is adding Sepiplus™ 400 to papaya oil, then adding water, DMI, and papain powder.
I think a little bit of penetration might be needed so I am using DMI.

Here is a link to the Sepiplus (Gel Maker):
http://www.bulkactives.com/gelmakerplus.htm
I would like to get your opinions on this product, could this have any negative effect.

Also how important is HA to this mix.

Are you guys using just HA pills.

Because the pure powder that I found is quite expensive

http://www.bulkactives.com/ulmwnah.htm

hopeful - Hey this is a great place, finally a source to buy Magnesium Ascorbyl Phosphate.

This is the stuff that grows hair and is stable as a topical. Sorry for the tangent on this thread.

NO problem CS,
Has MAP been used as a topical for hair loss before.
Can you explain the mechanisms with which it works

Hey CS, anything that grows hair is not really a tangent! Like hopeful I'd be interested in hearing more about it.

Magnesium Ascorbyl Phosphate is like L-Ascorbic acid 2-phosphate (Asc 2-P). This type of vitamin C is stable in water, and promotes hair growth, and absorbs through the skin, whereas regular vitamin C will just oxidize if placed on the scalp. Check out these studies.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19416266

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17964763

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16600573

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16406749

I ordered a bottle

I'm not sure if CS posted this but here's a study

-------------------------------------------------

ASCORBIC ACID 2-PHOSPHATE PROMOTES HAIR GROWTH
Kim MK, Kim JC, Sung YK
Department of Immunology, Kyungpook National University School of Medicine, Daegu, Korea

Cultured dermal papilla cells exhibit normal fibroblast-like morphology at early passage. In contrast to the dermal fibroblast, cultured dermal papilla cells can induce hair follicle growth in vivo, although their inductivity is gradually lost during subculture. It is known that ascorbic acid 2-phosphate (Asc 2-P) stimulates growth of dermal fibroblasts by enhanced production of collagen synthesis. However, it is not known whether Asc 2-P stimulates growth of dermal papilla cells and promotes hair follicle growth. In this study, Asc 2-P stimulated growth of dermal papilla cells and promoted hair follicle growth in organ culture model. On the other hand, Asc 2-P did not significantly promoted the growth of outer root sheath keratinocytes. The mRNA level of IGF-1 was increased 3.8-folds with Asc 2-P treatment while that of HGF, VEGF and KGF were not affected in dermal papilla cells. Versican expression in dermal papilla was also increased by Asc 2-P. However, the mRNA level of collagen types I and III was not affected by Asc 2-P in dermal papilla cells. These data, first time to our knowledge, demonstrate that Asc 2-P stimulates growth of dermal papilla cells and promote hair follicle growth in vitro. The growth stimulation of dermal papilla cells and induction of hair follicle growth seems to be, at least in part, mediated by IGF-1 over-expression from dermal papilla cells by Asc 2-P. In addition, these data suggests that signalling pathway that leads to versican expression is activated by Asc 2-P and Asc 2-P may keep dermal papilla cells to maintain hair-inducing activity by regulating versican.

Awesome. Thanks CS, jdp and hopeful. I am ordering a bottle and will try it as a topical.

JDP, did you order the powder from bulkactives?
Are you planning to just add it to water or is another carrier necessary

Yeah, I ordered from bulkactives. Not sure if it needs a carrier oil. I'm looking for something that can give regrowth so I'm crossing my fingers.

BTW, thanks CausticSymmetry and others for posting the info.

Here's another study

"Lee and his colleagues tested 880 bioactive substances - including drugs and vitamins - approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to see if they stimulated the mouse stem cells to become heart muscle cells. The cells were genetically altered to give off a fluorescent bright green color when viewed under a microscrope if they had become heart muscle cells.

"We only got 1 out of the 880 to light up, and that was from ascorbic acid, the chemical commonly known as vitamin C," said Lee, an associate professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School and Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston, and a lecturer in biological engineering at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology."

http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-3436898_ITM

jdp710 - That was interesting, thanks for posting that.

On a similar note, L-Ascorbic acid 2-phosphate induces versican. Versican is a large chondroitin sulfate proteoglycan molecule, and is implicated in the induction of hair morphogenesis, the initiation of hair regeneration, and the maintenance of hair growth.

There's more on this here:

http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v105/n3/abs/5610778a.html