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CS: "Tamoxifen activate dormant hair follicles and increase hair growth"

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CS: "Tamoxifen activate dormant hair follicles and increase hair growth"

Post  gonzalito on Mon Aug 31, 2009 2:48 pm

CS: What do you think about this?

Drug Wakes Dormant Hair Follicles
You're not bald-- you just have a lot of dormant hair follicles that haven't
been awakened yet. University of Michigan Medical Center researchers found
that rubbing a cream containing the cancer-fighting drug Tamoxifen (trade
name Novaldex) on rats just one time activated dormant hair follicles and
increased hair growth. Applying the drug repeatedly caused the rats to
produce too much hair. The treatment worked only in mice that were
genetically altered to create baldness. Bald men have dormant follicles--
healthy, but not producing hair. This research is exciting because it shows
we may be able to wake up these dormant follicles. (Genes Dev., 17:
1219-1224, 2003)

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Re: CS: "Tamoxifen activate dormant hair follicles and increase hair growth"

Post  CausticSymmetry on Mon Aug 31, 2009 3:42 pm

gonzalito - It would help men, but tamoxifen is quite dangerous. In women it will cause hair loss because in women estrogen protects against shortened anagen phases and prolonged telegen phases.

This study was interesting as it showed what blocking estrogen does for men. However, tamoxifen is a very dangerous drug and there are other ways to reduce estrogen without the toxicity.

In Circulation 2001, the study showed that males taking Tamoxifen resulted in decreases of several plasma cardiovascular risk factors, including total cholesterol, lipoprotein(a), and fibrinogen.

It sounds good, but consider alternate choices such as 7-HMR (spruce lignans) and keeping insulin levels lower, and iodine supplementation.

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Re: CS: "Tamoxifen activate dormant hair follicles and increase hair growth"

Post  Harie on Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:49 am

I wonder what carrier agent they used? And I wonder what agent they used to dissolve the Tamox.

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Re: CS: "Tamoxifen activate dormant hair follicles and increase hair growth"

Post  Harie on Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:05 am

Well what do you know.

"We were trying to generate a (mouse) model for how beta-catenin (a natural protein) would transform cells," making normal cells into cancer cells, said Dr. Eric Fearon at the University of Michigan Medical Center. "And we wanted a way to visualize the tumors that would be arising."

To do that, the team engineered a sensitive genetic switch into the mice, a switch that can be turned on by smearing the skin with a compound that includes the cancer drug tamoxifen. If the mice are smeared with the drug repeatedly -- called chronic treatment -- strong growth of their hair follicles is stimulated, and they overproduce hair.

Alternatively, when they treated their mice just once, "normal" hair growth ensued. But this was only seen in laboratory mice carrying specially altered genes that would respond to the treatments. Normal "wild-type" mice would not respond.

The research was exploiting a known phenomenon, the fact that hair follicles exist in several forms, including a "dormant" condition. Thus what the treatment does is awaken dormant follicles so they resume growing hair. "

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Re: CS: "Tamoxifen activate dormant hair follicles and increase hair growth"

Post  jmoss1982 on Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:35 am

I have some Tamoxifen tablets and I'd like to add it to my minoxidil solution. I would like to solicit the group's advice on what dosage to use. Also I will crush the tablets with a mortar and pestle and add the powder into the solution. Any idea how to make sure it dissolves?

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Re: CS: "Tamoxifen activate dormant hair follicles and increase hair growth"

Post  hopeful19 on Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:02 am

Would advise against adding it to minox as there could be systematic absorption

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CS: "Tamoxifen activate dormant hair follicles and increase hair growth"

Post  Crusher on Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:17 am

gonzalito,

I second CS, keep your hands off Tamoxifen:

quote: '...tamoxifen is a very dangerous drug and there are other ways to reduce estrogen without the toxicity.'

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Re: CS: "Tamoxifen activate dormant hair follicles and increase hair growth"

Post  nidhogge on Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:38 pm

I've used Tamoxifen *internally*, and many use it for post cycle therapy when coming off of prohormone or steroid cycles. It's not great for you, but I think it may be getting a little bit more of a bad rap than it really ought to be getting here. I'm not sure that a month's worth of topical usage will do much harm when I've done over a month's internal usage, as have many others, with no sides.

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Re: CS: "Tamoxifen activate dormant hair follicles and increase hair growth"

Post  CausticSymmetry on Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:00 pm

nidhogge - I think you're right. I may be wrong, but it may be safer to take than finasteride. I do know that topical preparations such as liposomal can be purchased.

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Re: CS: "Tamoxifen activate dormant hair follicles and increase hair growth"

Post  j87x on Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:03 pm

Interesting reply I found at regrowth: "Am new to this blogging and reply, so will post here. I have seen this work , but do not have access to this myself. There are men crushing up womens birth control pills and using it in a shampoo form. I do not know how it works but I have seen the results !! Does anyone know how this works or has heard of this before ?" http://www.regrowth.com/hairloss-forums//viewthread.cfm?f=1&t=14597

Never heard of topical birth control before.

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Re: CS: "Tamoxifen activate dormant hair follicles and increase hair growth"

Post  jmoss1982 on Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:16 pm

CS - That would certainly be true in my case. I used finasteride years ago and I had major issues during and after the treatment. I will likely begin using the topical solution of minoxidil and tamoxifen this weekend. Any idea what dosage I should start with? Also where have you found a topical liposomal?

Thanks

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Re: CS: "Tamoxifen activate dormant hair follicles and increase hair growth"

Post  Paradox on Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:47 pm

nidhogge wrote:I've used Tamoxifen *internally*, and many use it for post cycle therapy when coming off of prohormone or steroid cycles. It's not great for you, but I think it may be getting a little bit more of a bad rap than it really ought to be getting here. I'm not sure that a month's worth of topical usage will do much harm when I've done over a month's internal usage, as have many others, with no sides.

I second that. I have used it myself for post cycle therapy. Give it a shot.

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Re: CS: "Tamoxifen activate dormant hair follicles and increase hair growth"

Post  Paradox on Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:01 pm

j87x wrote:Interesting reply I found at regrowth: "Am new to this blogging and reply, so will post here. I have seen this work , but do not have access to this myself. There are men crushing up womens birth control pills and using it in a shampoo form. I do not know how it works but I have seen the results !! Does anyone know how this works or has heard of this before ?" http://www.regrowth.com/hairloss-forums//viewthread.cfm?f=1&t=14597

Never heard of topical birth control before.

I like how they have "seen" it work, yet they have no access to it. If they have seen it, why not ask the individuals using it? I hate to stereotype but I am going to. Many of those steroid users are naive kids who hear something or read something and accept is as truth. I know because I used to be one. Many times they will put anything in their body that is reported to give them whatever desired physical outcome they seek with little or no research or cation.

I used to read things on those bodybuilding forums like, "As long as you use Nizoral shampoo you'll be fine." (talking about using mass amounts of steroids). Many of these guys will experience mild thinning from the adrogenic steroids but not be prone to AGA so they claim results from Nizoral or crushing pills up on their head, when in fact they are just witnessing their hair thicken up naturally post cycle of androgens. It's really comical at times.

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Re: CS: "Tamoxifen activate dormant hair follicles and increase hair growth"

Post  nidhogge on Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:35 pm

JH nailed it *right* on the head.

If you guys want to prepare this topically, get DMI from BulkActives.com, and get a little digital scale from the net that goes up to 50g or so.

If you want to create 4 oz. of this solution, you may want to start off with 1% of the active, and 5 to 10% for DMI. For this example's sake, we'll go with 8%.

4 oz = 113.4g.

113.4 x .01 = 1.2g (I always round up on the tenth place)

113.4 x .08 = 9.1g

Get a few pills of tamoxifen, and wrap them tight in a couple plastic bags. Get a hammer or, better yet, a mallet, and pound them to a fine dust.

Put a bottle cap or something similar on the scale, then zero out the scale. Pour the dust slowly into the bottle cap until you get roughly 1.1g.

Dump the dust into the Distilled Water that will be the remainder of your solution that *isn't* the DMI.

Now, get another cap and do the same thing, except with the DMI until you get the desired dosage. Proceed to dump that into the Distilled Water/Tamoxifen concoction, and mix it up real good so it's in solution.

There you go! Fun for the whole family.

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Re: CS: "Tamoxifen activate dormant hair follicles and increase hair growth"

Post  thelibrarian on Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:26 am

Iodide converts estrogens into the estriol.

" There are three estrogens: B-estradiol, estrone and estriol. B-estradiol is by far the most potent. It is 12 times more potent than estrone and 80 times more potent than estriol. Any over exposure to B-estradiol can increase a person’s risk of disease. Estriol is considered the “good estrogen.” "

Yesrterday I had severe scalp inflammation ( it was a high carb day)

Using my microscope I could see that my entire scalp was inflamed. Acting on a tip from JDP , I used 6 drops of lugols in water and added enough vit c to cause the orange color to clear( thanks, JDP - keep the insights coming, much appreciated!) . Thus converting the iodine to iodide , the antioxidant version of iodine).

I sprayed this concoction on my head - 20 minutes later- no inflammation. My scalp was a healthy looking white AND ZERO ITCH. My scalp went from itchy as hell to no itch in 30 minutes.

Could this be the result of drastically reducing the level of estrogen on my scalp? I think that CS holds that estrogen converts to DHT , is that correct? Also, I believe that CS has stated that the thyroid has to be completely satisfied in it iodide needs beforee the rest of the body gets it? It follows that topical application is essential then , right?

Could there be a downside to daily applications of 6mg of iodide to the scalp?

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Re: CS: "Tamoxifen activate dormant hair follicles and increase hair growth"

Post  kijumn on Sat Dec 05, 2009 7:13 am

Hey thelibrarian,

It would be great if you could take topical Iodine or Iodide but unfortunately the risk is too great for me but I could be wrong though. The reason being is the quote below regarding thinning nails if too much Iodine.

BTW, notice the quote below about a crust forming when applying topical Iodine. Well, grapefruit seed extract and sometimes when combined with vinegar to open pores has previously created a thick crust. I believe grapefruit seed extract might be the safer option. Once a week application of Iodine or Iodide I believe there is no problem at all and nothing but positives but beyond that you might want to keep an eye on your hair for thinning hair. Just a theory I have.

BTW, if applying the grapefruit seed extract, you may get an extreme increase in itching. I'm not exactly sure why but it could be caused by a histamine reaction. Once you get past the increased itching your hair will feel much better. Just like coconut oil. When applying coconut oil a lot of people mention an extreme increase in itching. But once it passes over a couple days or a couple weeks that's when people mention the positives.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Here's a quote

"HINTS FROM HELOISE -- White iodine will rebuild nail strength

A daily application of white iodine on your fingernails for one week will help strengthen them. After the first week, use only once a week. This is not a case of more is better; do not continue to use white iodine on your fingernails every day, or they will become too brittle. It might take several weeks to see any improvement if your nails are paper-thin from using a primer on them (for acrylics) or from being roughed up so the nail products would adhere better."

http://curezone.com/forums/am.asp?i=894604

BTW, white iodine probably is just Iodide.

Here's another quote

"Baldness: In Mexico, some people have used iodine as a means of preventing baldness. One woman used iodine for years as a preventive measure against her baldness. She used it as a rinse after washing her hair. Another woman told me to "cure" a bald spot by dabbing iodine on the bald spot or area of thinning hair. After a while, a crust will form. Eventually, beneath the crust fine hairs will start to grow. She said it can take about three months to see the results."

http://www.iodine4health.com/overviews/uses/panam_uses.htm

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Re: CS: "Tamoxifen activate dormant hair follicles and increase hair growth"

Post  jmoss1982 on Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:47 am

Thank you for the information nidhogge.

I will definitely try the formulation with the DMI at some point in the near future. For the time being do you think that I could crush the Tamoxifen (ground to a powder with a mortar and pestle) and add it to a minoxidil solution? If so can you give me any advice as to how I could make sure it fully dissolves?

Best,
Jourdan



If you guys want to prepare this topically, get DMI from BulkActives.com, and get a little digital scale from the net that goes up to 50g or so.

If you want to create 4 oz. of this solution, you may want to start off with 1% of the active, and 5 to 10% for DMI. For this example's sake, we'll go with 8%.

4 oz = 113.4g.

113.4 x .01 = 1.2g (I always round up on the tenth place)

113.4 x .08 = 9.1g

Get a few pills of tamoxifen, and wrap them tight in a couple plastic bags. Get a hammer or, better yet, a mallet, and pound them to a fine dust.

Put a bottle cap or something similar on the scale, then zero out the scale. Pour the dust slowly into the bottle cap until you get roughly 1.1g.

Dump the dust into the Distilled Water that will be the remainder of your solution that *isn't* the DMI.

Now, get another cap and do the same thing, except with the DMI until you get the desired dosage. Proceed to dump that into the Distilled Water/Tamoxifen concoction, and mix it up real good so it's in solution.

There you go! Fun for the whole family.

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Re: CS: "Tamoxifen activate dormant hair follicles and increase hair growth"

Post  nidhogge on Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:39 am

Jourdan--

You're welcome bud. I'd be wary of mixing drugs with drugs, as they often has unexpected reactions as opposed to herbals that maintain their integrity when mixed amongst one another. Whether you apply a 2% solution of a particular herb stand-alone or a 2% solution with it and another herb, it'll be the same in both formulations. Mixing Tamoxifen and Minoxidil may create something that won't be too scalp-friendly though. I recommend just waiting for the DMI to come in, it takes a week or two!

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Re: CS: "Tamoxifen activate dormant hair follicles and increase hair growth"

Post  jmoss1982 on Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:21 am

Nidhogge,

Thanks again. I will keep you updated as to what positive benefits I derive from the topical Tamoxifen.

Jourdan

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Re: CS: "Tamoxifen activate dormant hair follicles and increase hair growth"

Post  jmoss1982 on Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:01 am

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20331445?dopt=AbstractPlus

It's odd that this study shows a completely different end-result of using topical tamoxifen.

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Re: CS: "Tamoxifen activate dormant hair follicles and increase hair growth"

Post  CausticSymmetry on Sat Apr 03, 2010 4:13 am

jmoss1982 - I agree.

Would stay away from Tamoxifen anyway, it's poison.

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Re: CS: "Tamoxifen activate dormant hair follicles and increase hair growth"

Post  jmoss1982 on Sat Apr 03, 2010 6:06 am

Thank you. I was wary of using the Tamoxifen so I never actually formulated the topical solution.

I do have a question regarding the role of estrogen/estradiol in the those with MPB. Do you think that Arimidex used internally could be of benefit. Or perhaps as a topical solution?

CausticSymmetry wrote:jmoss1982 - I agree.

Would stay away from Tamoxifen anyway, it's poison.

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Re: CS: "Tamoxifen activate dormant hair follicles and increase hair growth"

Post  nidhogge on Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:44 pm

To be fair, I don't see any mention in the above abstract about the mice being genetically-altered to express MPB as in the first study.

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Re: CS: "Tamoxifen activate dormant hair follicles and increase hair growth"

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