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Natural Hair Loss Regimen

Does topical caffeine work?

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Does topical caffeine work?

Post  gl68 on Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:06 pm

Brian suggested using caffeine topically as DHT blocker (http://www.freewebs.com/immortalhair/topicals.htm). I wonder if anybody has tried that. Does it work? I also wonder why only use it only for 30 seconds. By only 30 seconds, can DHT be effectively blocked? In the study cited by Brian, hair follicles were cultivated in caffeine all the time for 120-192 hours.
I will appreciate if Brian could tell us if there is any side effect if one leaves topical caffeine on scalp all day long.
Thanks

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Re: Does topical caffeine work?

Post  Misirlou on Sun Jul 13, 2008 9:41 pm

I would love if this worked, but does it? So many substances seems to work in the lab but not in the real world..why is this? What a Face

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Re: Does topical caffeine work?

Post  CausticSymmetry on Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:21 am

gl68 - Despite the study, I really don't know. In fact, I flat out stopped using the caffeine in my Lithium/DMSO mix.

Why? When I put caffeine in the mix in the past, I would get headaches if I put too much in there or if a chunk of caffeine was put directly on the scalp. It's hard to distinguish between crumbs of lithium and crumbs of caffeine, as they are both white in color.

What I have heard is that the amount of caffeine used probably makes a difference. Personally, it don't think the caffeine is necessary.

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Re: Does topical caffeine work?

Post  nidhogge on Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:59 am

Didn't really get headaches from the caffeine, but I cut it out and didn't notice any difference with it not being there. Irrelevant IMO.

As for why labs don't often translate to the real world--how many hairlossers actually stick with one regime for a long time? Not many.

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Re: Does topical caffeine work?

Post  nidhogge on Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:59 am

Of course, that's not the only reason that lab results don't always translate to the real world, but I'd say it's the largest.

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Re: Does topical caffeine work?

Post  Misirlou on Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:54 am

I would say that in the real world, efficiency requires a lot more then labish hamster flanky danky organ tests. I want to see these substances tried on REAL humans with REAL baldness. Used twice daily (or whatever) and measured every month or so. Anything else = Irrelevant.

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Re: Does topical caffeine work?

Post  nidhogge on Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:27 pm

Misirlou--

It's about money. It costs a shitton of money to experiment on humans. So you can either wait around for decades while your hair continues to fall out or experiment on yourself using as much research as is available at the time. This site is lightyears ahead of the current medical community.

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Re: Does topical caffeine work?

Post  CausticSymmetry on Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:31 pm

Here's the last thing I've seen on it. Note it was in vitro:

Int J Dermatol. 2007 Jan;46(1):27-35.
Effect of caffeine and testosterone on the proliferation of human hair follicles in vitro.
Fischer TW, Hipler UC, Elsner P.

Department of Dermatology and Allergology, Friedrich-Schiller-University, Jena, Germany. tobias.fischer@derma.uni-jena.de

BACKGROUND: Androgenetic alopecia (AGA) is a common problem in men of all ages, affecting approximately 50% at 50 years of age. The underlying cause is an androgen-dependent miniaturization of genetically predetermined hair follicles. Here, the hair organ culture model was used to investigate the effects of testosterone and caffeine; the latter being a promising candidate for hair growth stimulation. METHODS: Hair follicles from 14 biopsies, taken from the vertex areas from male AGA patients, were cultivated for 120-192 h in vitro with normal William's E medium (control) or William's E medium containing different concentrations of testosterone and/or caffeine. Hair shaft elongation was measured daily and at the end of cultivation, cryosections of follicles were stained with Ki-67 to evaluate the degree and localization of keratinocyte proliferation. RESULTS: Significant growth suppression was found in hair follicles treated with 5 microg/ml testosterone. This was counteracted by caffeine in concentrations of 0.001% and 0.005%. Moreover, caffeine alone led to a significant stimulation of hair follicle growth. These results were confirmed immunohistochemically by Ki-67 staining. CONCLUSIONS: Androgen-dependent growth inhibition of ex vivo hair follicles from patients suffering from AGA was present in the human hair organ culture model, a constellation which may serve for future studies to screen new substances against androgen-dependent hair loss. Caffeine was identified as a stimulator of human hair growth in vitro; a fact which may have important clinical impact in the management of AGA.

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Re: Does topical caffeine work?

Post  Misirlou on Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:42 pm

I agree with you nido, but never the less, a lot of crap gets realized that doesn't work or help. I though forums like this can help people find out what is most promising and then save both time and money.

The test IH just submitted. Sounds good with the positive conclusion and all..but where are all the success stories based on this ingredient? What are we doing wrong?

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Re: Does topical caffeine work?

Post  nidhogge on Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:00 pm

Well this is an in vitro study, and in vitro often doesn't translate to in vivo. However, caffeine may act as a good hairloss halter, though does it promote hair growth? Regrow on balding spots? I don't know. I've not used it consistently enough to know. Not sure who does. Often people that have success don't report on success, only when they have a negative experience. People naturally like to complain, heh.

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Re: Does topical caffeine work?

Post  CausticSymmetry on Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:35 pm

The bottom line is on caffeine, at least in my opinion based on using it for over a year. It's not necessary if you use Lithium/DMSO.

I don't miss the caffeine at all. I have a "ton" of it, but just have no motivation to use any.

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Re: Does topical caffeine work?

Post  Gibson on Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:43 am

i found nothing of note with the topical caffeine--dropped it as well.

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Re: Does topical caffeine work?

Post  Amaranthaceae on Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:41 am

My impression is that it helps keep the scalp healthy.

However it is important to use the right amount, appr. 0.2 to 0.5 % solution in alcohol.

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Re: Does topical caffeine work?

Post  Misirlou on Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:18 pm

Hmm. Tough one. To use or not to use - that is the question king

Could anyone give me a few lines about Lithium/DMSO - I'm really not into that, yet. Just a short summary.

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Re: Does topical caffeine work?

Post  CausticSymmetry on Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:37 pm

Lithium has been shown in studies to cut sebum or skin oil in the scalp significantly. It's been used for disorders such as seborrheic dermatitis.

It has been compared to Ketoconazole (think Nizoral) and Lithium outperformed in it in the treatment of seborrheic dermatitis.

What does seborrheic dermatitis have to do with hair loss? Often where there's a high output of skin oil, there is a higher reservoir of DHT.

In addition, the cause of seborrheic dermatitis involve yeasts and other microorganisms, which are depopulated with Lithium. These same microorganisms may play a part in the inflammation process concerning androgenetic alopecia.

Lithium, also increases Wnt signaling and is a DKK-1 antagonist. DKK-1 is highly negative for hair growth, it is initially signaled by DHT and diminishes Wnt and differentiates stem cells in the skin to stay bald. Lithium, along with DMSO can fight DKK-1 and increase Wnt proteins, so that hair is favored or skin creation.

when gentle wounding is done, that allows a new opportunity with lithium that goes even further. Which is to bring the stem cells in the skin back to the embryonic stage and allow it the option to become a hair follicle instead of skin. Lithium & the DMSO will provide "extracellular matrix" material to turn what would be skin, back into hair.

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