Picture of free glutamic acid/MSG fed mouse

More good info regarding MSG = http://www.msgexposed.com/

I'm assuming the MSG fed mouse is on the left, right? No wonder I can't gain weight even though I eat so much!

That is one grossly obese mouse ..

Believe the MSG fed mouse is on the right, or the tubby one

I just listened to a lecture on excitotoxins last night and am really alarmed by its implications. I had though that JDP had taken the diet to heights which I couldnt follow but this whole MSG thing is serious. I strongly recommend that everyone go to you tube and watch/listen to the video on excitotoxins.

This topic is so huge that I dont know which thread to include it in so-

The lecturer claims that all free amino acids are excitotoxins- including l- cysteine. Yikes. Ive been using this stuff for years I use arginine, lysine , alanine, taurine. etc. etc. What do you think JDP- are these poisons? What about glutamine. I have recommended it to a friend with chrohns and it did wonders!

Also the lecturer claims that " natural flavours" are really msg. The k2 liquid we purchased has "natural flavours" ! have you noticed any negative effects? I have had a a serious breakout on my scalp since using it but this may be attributed to the bromide detox I am experience also all over my face. I would love to continue to apply the k2 because- holy crap it works! I had a lump on my forehead the length and depth of a dime. Three applications and its almost gone!

mmmmm where can I get some?

Espio,

The physical model for what happens when you consume free glutamic acid is obese and short in stature and reproductive problems. However, this may be partly due to early exposure in life. Exposure later in life may not hold to that model.

So again, that model doesn't always hold up. I'm definitely not overweight and have a tendency to lose weight and not gain weight, I'm 6'0" and I'm sensitive to free glutamic acid. No doubt about that. Part of what may have caused the sensitivity is that most of my life I've been on a warrior like diet where I don't eat much in the day but gorge myself at night. Well, when you consume free glutamic acid such as going to a restaurant or fast food or you reach for those potato chips during those times you're hypoglycemic the effects on your brain are amplified greatly.

Anyway, the other part of what I believe is occuring with those that are msg sensitive but are not overweight is initially caused by high consumption of oxalates in the diet relative to the gut bacteria Oxalobacter Formigenes or the elimination of the bacteria. This in turn may be what's responsible for the food sensitivities including gluten sensitivity or those with many food sensitivites which I believe is a large percentage of us on this forum. More info = http://www.lowoxalate.info/papers/mechanisms.html Under files at this forum also has very good info = http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Trying_Low_Oxalates/

Well, what I'm trying to say is that oxalates may be one of the best areas to improve health ... including mental. It's extremely hard though due to what's called dumping but this is probably the reason why I've gained almost all my weight back that I lost when I eliminated free glutamic acid.

Hi thelibrarian,

Yeah, MSG is some very scary stuff. What's so scary is that it's consumption is doubling every 10 years and probably won't lessen anytime soon as companies compete with each other for better tasting foods. And people are wondering why the increase in obesity, autism, Alzheimers, dementia, etc.. are from.

They are also wondering why the honey bees are leaving. They aren't dying but leaving. The reason being is the Auxigrow/free glutamic acid that's being sprayed on crops. Supposedly there is a protein in the Auxigrow that is nearly identical to the pheromones that the bees use to communicate with each other which tell them to leave the area. Once they stop spraying the Auxigrow the bees eventually come back.

The connection between mercury and glutamate is also interesting. A quote Russell Blaylock M.D. "two studies have shown that mercury increases the toxicity of glutamate. 7,8 Interestingly, excess glutamate can also produce the same neurofibrillary tangles seen with mercury exposure." Selenomethionine helps greatly regarding mercury toxicity but is one of the nutrients that's being depleted due to overfarming.

Anyway, regarding free form amino acids I wasn't aware that all amino acids are excitotoxins I'll look into that. I have heard it mention that when breaking protein down into amino acids, those amino acids that were excitotoxins just a little are now greatly amplified. For example, when eating say mushrooms or beef, the glutamate isn't much of a problem at all. Only those that are hypersensitive would it be a problem to. Or the juice from a steak or seaweed is used for flavor enhancers but it really isn't much of a problem either unless you're hypersensitive or have a poor blood brain barrier like the elderly. However, if you break down that protein into amino acids, then the glutamate becomes free glutamic acid. If you consume extremely large quantities in a short period of time you may develop ALS. But if you consume smaller quantities over a long period of time that's when you have to worry about Alzheimers, dementia, etc. Not to mention it increases how fast cancer spreads and I personally believe it increases how fast we lose our hair. Our hairs have glutamate receptors. Free glutamic acid also messes with our ability to detoxify sulfites. Sulfites also increase uric acid. Uric acid I believe is a major problem with crown hair loss. Molybdenum and B12 patch or shots should help regarding sulfites as would reducing free glutamic acid. Also, beware of shampoo and conditioners as they almost all contain free glutamic acid as well hidden under "hydolyzed (soy or silk or milk or wheat, etc.) protein. It's said "shampoo for color treated hair is milder. Nature's gate baby shampoo or maybe Fructise Garnier might be the better ones. Personally, I went with a soap that I've used previously and coconut oil. The other shampoo's that I had at my house, including an Aubrey's organic would still give problems with scalp itch due to the MSG.

Back on the hair loss part of it according to the book Battling the MSG Myth the gelatin in a lot of our supplements is 11% free glutamic acid! The vitamin binders/fillers listed in other ingredients in our supplements the ones you have to watch for are cornstarch, dextrose "and other protein rich formulas and amino acids created from milk, yeast, soy, etc.)." Other supplements I can get a reaction to which may be due to the sulfites. I'd say a 1/4 - 1/3 of suppelments I get a reaction. For example while I'm not allergic to shellfish I bought a glucosamine product which contains shellfish. Shellfish are sprayed with sulfites on the boat. Others don't seem to make much sense but it could be due to high oxalates.

About taurine, beta alanine, lysine. Taurine in the powder there is no problem and actually helps with the free glutamic acid reaction. Part of the problem with free glutamic acid is it's inhibiting taurine. Supplemental taurine helps. Beta alanine I get zero reaction to and it helps bind to oxalates. Lysine is probably made from corn. Topical I have no problem but haven't gotten around to internal yet.

However, cysteine is an excitotoxin. It's what's added to some tortillas, breads, dough, etc.. However, N Acetyl Cysteine is beneficial. To make it more complicated here is a quote "High levels of MSG reduces the liver’s production of Cysteine. This leads to a reduction in Glutathione which aids in the removal of heavy metals in the body. With less Glutathione, the metals collect in the body. High Mercury would then be a symptom of Autism, and not the cause."

Also, glutamine is very bad news regarding being an excitotoxin. It converts to glutamate in your brain. Similar to cigarette smoke. I posted some information previously about this as someone else had the same question. I forget where I posted it. Here is one link though http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2004/05/01/glutamine.aspx

Most importantly, I also tried high dose glutamine before I went to bed and it gave me the same reaction that high dose free glutamic acid gives me so I won't touch the stuff. One of the ways to lessen the effects would be to consume after a meal. I'm not sure how effective the glutamine would then though.

Also, homocysteine is an excitotoxin. Another reason why you can see cranky or type A personalities in people with heart disease.

Oxalates also accumulate in the brain which effects behaviror as well as the oxalates building up in the thyroid causing hypothyroid.

Regarding the K2, yeah, it probably contains free glutamic acid but it doesn't seem to give me that much of a problem. You'll always have some free glutamic acid slip in but to limit the damage from the K2 take it after a meal. If taken on an empty stomach is the biggest problem. Also the dosage of 15 mg is a very large dosage. I've been taking about 5 mg which is still a very large dosage which is 1/3 of a dropper every other day or 3. Not sure it's accurate but I heard it mention that K2 menaquinone 4 has a half life of 3 days. I'm guessing that liquid K2 that we bought is menaquinone 4 as it didn't mention soy or tree nuts or milk as an ingredient which would be menaquinone 7 which has an even longer half life. I could be wrong about the half life's though.

That's very good news about the lump on your forehead. As for my experience, I do believe that a scar that I've had on my face is diminishing greatly. It could be placebo though so I'll have to give it more time. Scalp I haven't noticed much but I'm thinking it could have been thoroughly cleaned out last year with grapefruit seed extract. The grapefruit seed extract I believe gave me some regrowth and a whole lot of scalp pimples and bumps that all I could only describe as calcium deposits or crystals coming out of the pores. Interestingly, this was also the time that I've never had a problem with hair loss.

This quote about sums up free glutamic acid perfectly

"it's influence on our body, especially when we get far too much of it, can not be underestimated...even when it comes to diseases like cancer. It shakes up the balance, disrupts our hormones, blood vessels/chemistry, immune response, and so much more. These are no small matters for our systems to handle continually."

Nice breakdown jdp710.

thelibrarian - Glutamine really is terrific for crohn's and other inflammatory bowel diseases. There's always lithium orotate to help combat glutamate toxicity. Probably a sort of litmus test for glutamate problems if a history of asthma or other respiratory disorders, since just a few short years ago, researchers found that glutamate toxicity occurs in the lungs as well as the brain.

Personally I've somewhat avoided glutamine as it seems to boost iNOS (inducible nitric oxide synthase), which is an inflammatory nitrosamine reaction.

great info here!

i had a definitely bad experience with arginine

it's really bad news about glutamine, i was taking it for years and not only for bodybuilding, actually i had an impression that it makes me feel better

i'll do the same test as jdp with glutamine to see what it does...

Hey thelibrarian,

Here are two good videos. I'm sure you've already seen one of these

http://www.msgexposed.com/category/video/

Interesting info at 37:40 at the first video

and http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2007/07/10/why-you-do-not-want-to-eat-processed-foods.aspx

Hey Prague,

Yeah, it's really unfortunate about Glutamine as it is very useful. A typical symptom would be a harder time falling asleep or the quality of sleep isn't as good. Also, when awakening in the morning your apetite would be more. Maybe heart palpitations in some. Keep in mind that you may not notice a difference if you were consuming other free glutamic acid/MSG products in the day. ]

For everyone else, While not complete, here is a basic outline of what I believe occured with me

FWIW here is a basic outline of what I believe has been helped

I believe my adrenal fatigue was caused or exacerbated by free glutamic acid .... hypoglycemia

I believe my slight hypothryoid was corrected mostly by avoidance of moderate and high/extremely high oxalate foods.

I believe my hair loss was corrected by avoidance of one or a couple or all of these toxic lextins gluten or casein, soy or corn or legumes.

and then somewhere along the way I believe aldosterone was also corrected possibly by allowing me to retain potassium.

Happy New Year and good luck to everyone

Thanks JDP! I am checking out the videos now. Damn, I admire your dedication to your diet. I am summoning the will to tighten mine further. I was just at two family fucntions over the last two days. People get so offended if you dont eat their food. And lets face it, you really cant explain about oxalates or msg or anything without being a "nut". Just going off gluten caused a big stir for a while!


BTW, Whats your opinion - does microneedling cause microscarring? Check out my links on the wounding thread. Have a great year and thanks for everything!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutamic_acid_%28flavor%29#Concentration_in_foods

so guys. im new to this...it seems glutamic acid in free natural form is healthy?

thank you!

Prague, arginine kicked my a$$ as well, something about the NO causing pain, citrulline did not though.

What do you think you would take daily against all this stuff? ACV, NAC, etc. I mean a complete nutritional regimen to get everything you need.

Sugar, wheat, beer, soda, fast food and restaurants, and bagged and boxed food has to go as well, but even then what? Is there a supplement regimen or natural type drink/food source that could take the place of 1-2 meals a day?

I was juicing a couple of days a week, but was worried about my thyroid getting messed up from that or from too many pesticides, etc. I used to take an amino acid pill 1x daily, but stopped that also.

Any ideas?