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Immortal Hair (Ortho Nutrition) Supplement Line [How to Order]

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Re: Immortal Hair (Ortho Nutrition) Supplement Line [How to Order]

Post  pancacke on Thu Dec 09, 2010 3:34 am

Thank you, I know the bottle suggests 1 but on the regimen page it says 1000mg....

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Re: Immortal Hair (Ortho Nutrition) Supplement Line [How to Order]

Post  Abhi on Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:09 am

Yea, but you seem to have a relatively low tolerance for it and 500mg is still quite a nice effective dose.
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Re: Immortal Hair (Ortho Nutrition) Supplement Line [How to Order]

Post  CausticSymmetry on Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:32 am

pancacke - Biotin is fine to take with or without lipoic acid.

Stabilized R-Lipoic Acid is approximately 10 times more potent than alpha lipoic acid, so it is fine to use with the Cutler Protocol.


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Re: Immortal Hair (Ortho Nutrition) Supplement Line [How to Order]

Post  pancacke on Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:32 am

Thanks!
Is 1/8 to 1/2 mg of ALA per pound of body weight every 3 hours too much? How would you change the dose for R-Lipoic Acid? 0,0125mg to 0,05mg per bound of body weight?

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Re: Immortal Hair (Ortho Nutrition) Supplement Line [How to Order]

Post  tooyoung on Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:49 am

CS, due to beta sit maybe causing a shrinkage of the testicles and resveratrol maybe stunting height growth under the age of 23. I'm considering epilobium but have had mixed reviews about it.

What supps can I take thats safe for the young and can put up a good fight against hair loss?

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Re: Immortal Hair (Ortho Nutrition) Supplement Line [How to Order]

Post  scottyc33 on Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:22 pm

tooyoung wrote:CS, due to beta sit maybe causing a shrinkage of the testicles and resveratrol maybe stunting height growth under the age of 23. I'm considering epilobium but have had mixed reviews about it.

What supps can I take thats safe for the young and can put up a good fight against hair loss?

resveratrol stunting height growth? Do you have a link?

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Re: Immortal Hair (Ortho Nutrition) Supplement Line [How to Order]

Post  CausticSymmetry on Thu Dec 09, 2010 1:17 pm

tooyoung wrote:CS, due to beta sit maybe causing a shrinkage of the testicles and resveratrol maybe stunting height growth under the age of 23. I'm considering epilobium but have had mixed reviews about it.

What supps can I take thats safe for the young and can put up a good fight against hair loss?

These mentions you quoted came from a source with no substantiation and I recall they were an opinion without any evidence.

As far as Beta-sitosterol, the dose makes all the difference, just keep it under 100 mg per day. 50 mg twice per day is even safer.

Consider that an avocado contains up to 100 milligrams of the stuff.



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Re: Immortal Hair (Ortho Nutrition) Supplement Line [How to Order]

Post  CausticSymmetry on Thu Dec 09, 2010 1:19 pm

pancacke - Figure that Stabilized R-Lipoic acid is 10 times more potent.

I would not exceed 300 milligrams per dose of Stabilized R-Lipoic acid. On alpha lipoic acid, I would not recommend exceeding a dose of 1,200 mg per dose, because there is no known benefit from that area.

Keep in mind that if you consider to use a high-dose make sure you are intaking enough B-vitamins along with it.


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Re: Immortal Hair (Ortho Nutrition) Supplement Line [How to Order]

Post  pancacke on Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:06 am

Thank you, I'm gonna be carful!
Could you give me a reference point for dose/pound that I can use with your Stabilized R-Lipoic acid?
Since you're the expert i have a quick question regarding iodine. Yesterday I increased iosol to 3 drops and now the left part of my adam's appel hurts when I swallow. Is this a normal reaction? I take it all at once, maybe I should devide it!?

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Re: Immortal Hair (Ortho Nutrition) Supplement Line [How to Order]

Post  tooyoung on Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:13 am

CS - Is this study reliable?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1809820

Found problems with rats on 0.5mg/kg, which would be about 30mg for me.



You've said before younger people should concentrate on DHT? Would the top 3, including resveratrol do nothing for me?

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Re: Immortal Hair (Ortho Nutrition) Supplement Line [How to Order]

Post  CausticSymmetry on Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:30 am

tooyoung - Just based on my body weight, the upper dose in that study would be 450 mg per day for me, which from personal experience would definitely cause problems.

The study points out that in the higher dose levels there are problems 5 mg per kg of body weight). I believe that if you exceed 100 mg per dose, that is where you run the risk of side-effects.

pancacke - There are no studies to rely on which tell me the upper safe limit for alpha lipoic acid or Stablilized R-Lipoic acid, and while there is short term benefits from high-dose for liver diseases, etc, taking the doses mentioned earlier are effective enough for many purposes.

If you experience any unusual effects from iodine, it is often indicative of bromide or other metals being pulled out. You could try salt loading to help decrease symptoms of this.


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Re: Immortal Hair (Ortho Nutrition) Supplement Line [How to Order]

Post  tooyoung on Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:36 am

"there was a significant decrease in testicular weight and sperm concentrations after long-term treatment with the low dose of beta-sitosterol."

I'm 68 kg, so that would be 34mg of the low dose?


Would your top 3, as well as fixing diet and using iodine be enough to stop my hair loss? Or do I really need to combat DHT?

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Re: Immortal Hair (Ortho Nutrition) Supplement Line [How to Order]

Post  CausticSymmetry on Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:52 am

tooyoung - It's not possible to give an absolute yes or no answer to that questions because everyone is different. Trial and error is the best way to go, because there are many contributors that can tip the inflammation in the wrong direction. What factors determine your situation will differ from others.

I can say that there is a good chance it will work.

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Re: Immortal Hair (Ortho Nutrition) Supplement Line [How to Order]

Post  tooyoung on Sat Dec 11, 2010 10:52 pm

Each label recommends 2 caps a day, with a low budget in mind, how much less of a benefit will I get from only using 1 cap of each per day, to extent the life of each bottle?

Would it be worth adding 50-100mg to beta sit just to give my regimen a bit more strength?
I read something which said zinc removed problems with fin, would taking zinc alongside beta sit reduce any problems I am likely to have with it?

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Re: Immortal Hair (Ortho Nutrition) Supplement Line [How to Order]

Post  pancacke on Sun Dec 12, 2010 12:48 am

Thank you, I will work something out.
I'm currently reading threw your homepage another time and was wondering......
"To manage most factors critical to staving off hair loss, covering the following areas are most important:

* Reducing insulin producing foods or the impact of such foods on glucose and insulin.
* Controlling over expressed DHT
* Removing heavy metals
* Correcting metabolic conundrums
* Reducing oxidative stress
* Improving glucose metabolism
* Optimizing thyroid function
* Normalizing estrogen metabolism
* Balancing prostaglandins
* Curtailing inflammation
* Balancing intestinal microflora"

I can definitly see how your regimen targets many of those issues and it's awesome to have this info on one page. I already took care of most of the things but
"Normalizing estrogen metabolism" and "Controlling over expressed DHT" is still an enigma to me.
"Correcting metabolic conundrums"-Could you explain what you mean with this?

keep up the good work!

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Re: Immortal Hair (Ortho Nutrition) Supplement Line [How to Order]

Post  AboDi on Sun Dec 12, 2010 12:09 pm

I saw a post by CS about a possible detox fix for aggressive hair loss types .. I hope you didn't forgot cuz it might be the answer for many of us .. thank you for your kindness.

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Re: Immortal Hair (Ortho Nutrition) Supplement Line [How to Order]

Post  CausticSymmetry on Sun Dec 12, 2010 4:08 pm

tooyoung - Yes, you could try that. However, bear in mind that the Ecklonia Cava maybe affected the most, but the others not as much.

pancacke - Estrogen metabolism is adversely affected by using bisphenol-A products (plastics with hot water especially that use bisphenol-A plastics. Avoiding such products in the microwave also.

Bisphenol-A is an environmental toxic, a potent estrogen that causes insulin resistance and a drop in testosterone levels.

MPB is worsened when there is high estrogen, and this type of estrogen is more difficult to get rid of than natural estrogens. Selenium is an important way to reduce estrogen, also iodine can prevent of the negative effects from estrogen.

"Correcting metabolic conundrums" Some conditions that maybe inherited or caused by an imbalance of some sort can cause improper metabolism of fatty acids, glucose, or a under or over usage of minerals. Unfortunately, there is a vast number of ways for the body to have metabolism problems.

Solving any underlying issue, whether it involves allergies, blood sugar, hypo or hyperglycemia, mineral deficiencies, or simply balancing electron +/_ can help. Vitamin C and/or Green Tea act as both pro and antioxidants for example.

AboDi - Yes that is correct, but it is not a detox method, instead it is possible way to stop the genetic factor in MPB. I am currently evaluating this possibility.

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Re: Immortal Hair (Ortho Nutrition) Supplement Line [How to Order]

Post  pancacke on Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:59 pm

Thank you, this heleped a lot! I don't use plastic with my foods or drinks anyway, but it's disgusting how they are made especially toys for children....

AboDi: Do you have a link to this post?

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Re: Immortal Hair (Ortho Nutrition) Supplement Line [How to Order]

Post  tooyoung on Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:13 am

CS - which should I try? The one per day, or including beta sit? Or both?

Would the zinc stop some problems with beta sit?


I asked on imminst about resveratrol and got told:

"The estrogen mimetic effect of resveratrol leads to premature closing of the growth plates, which affects height, and breadth as well; the clavicle is the last bone where the plate closes, typically around age 23 in males, but there is some variation. This is one reason I've suggested one should not take resveratrol before that age. There are other, possible subtle effects as well. Before full sexual maturity and growth are achieved, don't use it. "



How effective would EC and krill be alone? Or EC, krill and curcumin?

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Re: Immortal Hair (Ortho Nutrition) Supplement Line [How to Order]

Post  CausticSymmetry on Mon Dec 13, 2010 7:33 am

tooyoung - Resveratrol has been shown in vivo to improve bone regeneration and mineralization. Moreover, it has pro and anti-estrogen effects, it acts to modulate in modest quantities. Estrogen itself is not a negative for bone, but it is probably a moot point, and finally, any estrogenic activity in resveratrol is quite weak, and pales in comparison to environmental estrogens which are a real and present danger.

Also keep in mind the trans-resveratrol dose does not need to be high. A lot of folks on imminst have and are taking way too much. For our purposes, you do not need that much.

You asked "How effective would EC and krill be alone? Or EC, krill and curcumin?"

Impossible to say.

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Re: Immortal Hair (Ortho Nutrition) Supplement Line [How to Order]

Post  tooyoung on Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:17 am

Alright, I think you've convinced me. At what age are full sexual maturity and growth achieved, or will a small amount of resv not affect this? Would I benefit from halfing the antioxidant boost doses?

Would zinc help any beta sit problems?

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Re: Immortal Hair (Ortho Nutrition) Supplement Line [How to Order]

Post  scottyc33 on Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:53 pm

CausticSymmetry wrote:tooyoung - Resveratrol has been shown in vivo to improve bone regeneration and mineralization. Moreover, it has pro and anti-estrogen effects, it acts to modulate in modest quantities. Estrogen itself is not a negative for bone, but it is probably a moot point, and finally, any estrogenic activity in resveratrol is quite weak, and pales in comparison to environmental estrogens which are a real and present danger.

Also keep in mind the trans-resveratrol dose does not need to be high. A lot of folks on imminst have and are taking way too much. For our purposes, you do not need that much.

You asked "How effective would EC and krill be alone? Or EC, krill and curcumin?"

Impossible to say.

Yes - I read those imminst forums and experimented with high doses of resveratrol (300mg - 600mg per day) and started getting bad joint pain.

I have no joint issues at 200mg per day though.

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Re: Immortal Hair (Ortho Nutrition) Supplement Line [How to Order]

Post  pancacke on Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:56 pm

Is there an alternative for resveratrol, to neutralize the neurotrophins? The taste alone is pretty toxic, many aditional stuff in there I think.....

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Re: Immortal Hair (Ortho Nutrition) Supplement Line [How to Order]

Post  CausticSymmetry on Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:37 am

pancacke - No, however in a capsule form there shouldn't be any taste to worry about.


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Re: Immortal Hair (Ortho Nutrition) Supplement Line [How to Order]

Post  tooyoung on Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:32 am

CS, somebody on imminst said:


"The estrogen mimetic effect of resveratrol leads to premature closing of the growth plates, which affects height, and breadth as well; the clavicle is the last bone where the plate closes, typically around age 23 in males, but there is some variation. This is one reason I've suggested one should not take resveratrol before that age. There are other, possible subtle effects as well. Before full sexual maturity and growth are achieved, don't use it.

Male pattern baldness at 18 is probably a sign of more than normal DHT (di-hydro testosterone) receptors on the scalp, and a high testosterone level. Drugs to block these receptors can delay or stop the progression of male pattern baldness. I do not think resveratrol will do this, and it might make things worse. It is an anti-aromatase, and could increase the amount of testosterone and thus of DHT, speeding up the process."

Would beta sit alone sort this, or do you still think the curcumin/resveratrol combo is best, even for 18 year olds?

Should I take zinc with the beta sit?

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