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IGF-1, Milk and Androgen Receptor

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Re: IGF-1, Milk and Androgen Receptor

Post  Hoople on Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:21 pm

We want to increase IGF-1 don't we? Check out the study of finasteride being successful in men in which it induced an increase in IGF-1. Its only a small study but I don't think its been mentioned on here? I've not got the link though, you will have to google it.

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Re: IGF-1, Milk and Androgen Receptor

Post  misterE on Fri Nov 19, 2010 6:36 am

Hoople wrote:We want to increase IGF-1 don't we? Check out the study of finasteride being successful in men in which it induced an increase in IGF-1. Its only a small study but I don't think its been mentioned on here? I've not got the link though, you will have to google it.


I've seen evidence that Propecia increases IGFBPs and reduces free-IGF-1 activity.

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Re: IGF-1, Milk and Androgen Receptor

Post  misterE on Fri Nov 19, 2010 6:51 am

teacup wrote:Mister E, what's your opinion on coconut oil? coconut butter?


The fat you eat is the fat you wear! And the more fat you wear, the worse your insulin-sensitivity will be, the more estrogen you will make from the aromatase-enzymes located in body-fat and the more inflammation you will have due to the inflammatory-cytokines produced by body-fat.

But to answer your question about coconut-oil:
A recent study looked at the effects of even just one high-fat meal on HDL, inflammation, and blood flow. Subjects were fed a meal high in coconut-oil and the effects were evaluated at 3 and 6 hours after the meal. The meal containing coconut-oil impaired the anti-inflammatory action of HDL at both 3 and 6 hours. In addition, blood-flow was significantly reduced 3 hours after the meal containing coconut-oil and remained slightly reduced at 6 hours [1]. Also note that scientists and researchers use coconut-oil to induce atherosclerosis in lab-animals for their studies!





[1] Consumption of Saturated Fat Impairs the Anti-Inflammatory Properties of High-Density Lipoproteins and Endothelial Function.

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Re: IGF-1, Milk and Androgen Receptor

Post  Balthier on Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:58 am

was this hydrogenated coconut oil I notice sometimes they fail to mention the source of coconut oil?

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Re: IGF-1, Milk and Androgen Receptor

Post  Nuada on Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:06 am

I drink milk @ breakfast and afternoon(GNC protein shake). So are we supposed to cut off milk entirely ? What am I to replace it with. I need extra protein you know as I am working out and all.

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Re: IGF-1, Milk and Androgen Receptor

Post  mphatesmpb on Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:27 am

I have been reading about the relationship between IGF and AGA. I've looked at several studies, and their results are contradictory with regard to whether IGF-1 is good or bad.

Here's a legit summary of what IGF does within the hair follicle:

"Insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) accelerates, in a concentration-dependent manner, growth of hair and hair follicles.[14] The actions of IGF-I are modulated by proteins produced in dermal papilla cells which bind IGF (insulin-like growth factor-binding proteins: IGFBPs); the exact mechanism of modulation has not yet been resolved.[15] However, it has been shown that IGFBP-3 (which is the most abundant IGFBP type in dermal papilla cells) forms a complex with free IGF-I to reduce the concentration of IGF-I available for stimulation of hair elongation and maintenance of the anagen phase."

I found this excerpt from this link: http://dermatology.cdlib.org/DOJvol4num1/original/jankovi.html.

Here's a contradiction, taken from the study posted at the beginning of this thread:
"Addition of IGF-1 to cultures of rat and human skin scrotal fibroblasts significantly increased 5-alpha-reductase activity in a dose-dependent manner."

It appears that IGF-I is important for perpetuating the anagen phase of hair follicles, but it also upregulates conversion of testosterone to DHT. Maybe the increase in serum levels of IGF-I induced by consuming milk and hyperglycemic foods does not imply that there is also an increase in IGF-I within the hair follicle too? The only effect on hair follicles would then be the increased levels of circulating DHT. (This is also the premise of the article, which is basically the idea that acne is an androgen-dependent disease, and increased IGF-I correlates with more DHT)

MisterE,
can you direct me to that evidence that propecia decreases the effect of IGF-I?

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Re: IGF-1, Milk and Androgen Receptor

Post  tonyj on Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:11 pm

misterE Yesterday at 7:21 pm

tonyj wrote:
If milk is indeed just milk then why the does skim milk have a greater insulin response than whole milk? Should not all dairy products have the same insulin response?




The reason why skin-milk causes a larger increase in free-IGF-1 is because skim-milk has a higher percentage of protein per calorie. For instance whole-milk has most of its calories coming from fat, but if you remove the fat, the percentage of protein increases.

Yes that is correct, besides missing stuff in skim milk, skim milk has about 8.3g of protein per cup while whole milk has 8g of protein per cup. Not a huge difference yet skim milk has by far a greater insulin response. Let's recap what is missing in skim milk, FAT.

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Re: IGF-1, Milk and Androgen Receptor

Post  misterE on Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:47 pm

mphatesmpb wrote:
MisterE,
can you direct me to that evidence that propecia decreases the effect of IGF-I?


Prostatic involution in men taking finasteride is associated with elevated levels of insulin-like growth factor-binding proteins (IGFBPs)-2, -4, and -5.

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Re: IGF-1, Milk and Androgen Receptor

Post  misterE on Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:51 pm

tonyj wrote: Let's recap what is missing in skim milk, FAT.


Skim-milk has more protein which causes an increase in free-IGF-1 and a decrease in IGFBP-3, while the whole-milk has more saturated-fat and estrogen [1].


[1] Estrone and 17beta-estradiol concentrations in pasteurized-homogenized milk and commercial dairy products.

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Re: IGF-1, Milk and Androgen Receptor

Post  tonyj on Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:29 pm

misterE Yesterday at 7:21 pm

tonyj wrote:
If milk is indeed just milk then why the does skim milk have a greater insulin response than whole milk? Should not all dairy products have the same insulin response?




The reason why skin-milk causes a larger increase in free-IGF-1 is because skim-milk has a higher percentage of protein per calorie. For instance whole-milk has most of its calories coming from fat, but if you remove the fat, the percentage of protein increases.

The percentage increase from whole milk to skim milk based on one cup is |(8.0/8.3 -1)|*100=3.6% increase which accounts for 2 fold increase in the insulin response.

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Re: IGF-1, Milk and Androgen Receptor

Post  teacup on Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:56 pm

mphatesmpb wrote:I have been reading about the relationship between IGF and AGA. I've looked at several studies, and their results are contradictory with regard to whether IGF-1 is good or bad.

I'm also finding conflicting studies..

Looking at IGF-1 and cancers, you will find a TON of studies linking an increase in IGF-I concentrations with the risk of prostate, bladder, colorectal, and breast cancers.. Thus, one would expect to aim at lowering IGF-1, which is what I believe Mister E, maybe CS call for?? don't quote me.

I asked myself if IGF-1 was a predictor /causing of cancer or if it was simply a symptom of something else that causes cancer (and hair loss) ... A legit question, don't you think?

Take a look:

Article:

IGF-1 and Prostate Cancer: An Insubstantial Link

A study headed by June Chan at Harvard University links the growth protein insulin-like growth factor type-1 (IGF-1) with prostate cancer, but many health professionals caution against drawing quick conclusions. Methods used by Chan to assess this risk, including adjustment for other prostate cancer risk factors like smoking and the cancer-protective protein IGFBP-3, lead to questions regarding the accuracy of the conclusions drawn from this study. According to growth hormone clinical researcher Dr. L.E. Dorman, "In my experience, PSA [a widely accepted marker for prostate cancer] levels consistently drop 50% over a period of a month or two of growth hormone secretagogue therapy." Growth hormone--popularized for its anti-aging effects--works by stimulating IGF-1 production.

Dorman, the co-author of Growth Hormone: Reversing Human Aging Naturally, also points out that IGF-1 is produced by cells of the immune system, which may be stimulated in the presence of cancer.

"To conclude that IGF-1 stimulates the initiation of prostate cancer goes against everything that we know about its positive effects on the immune system, which protects against cancer. To make any substantial conclusions about the effects of these hormones on prostate cancer, a study should include the use of growth hormone therapy with prostate cancer patients."

Dr. L. Cass Terry, a long-time researcher of growth hormone notes the complete lack of cancer incidence in any of his growth hormone treated patients, "With 800 people over the age of about 40, you would think that given the normal incidence rate of cancer, some of these people would get cancer. It could be that there is some sort of protective effect from growth hormone replacement".

Terry and his associate Dr. Edmund Chein report the results of growth hormone treatment on a man who came to them with prostate cancer, indicating that without any usual forms of treatment like surgery, the patients' levels dropped from the 50 to 60 range down to 5 to 7 (men with prostate cancer usually show levels of PSA in the 10 to 20 range). It has been hypothesized that these effects come from stimulatory effects on the immune system that result from growth hormone therapy.

Pharmacologist James Jamieson, who headed the development of a growth hormone secretagogue, notes the importance of using growth hormone therapy in a way that keeps IGF-1 within a healthy range. "When stimulated to release growth hormone, the body has mechanisms that typically keep IGF-1 within a normal range."
Source: http://hgh.vespro.com/pressrel.html


Also, a reduction in IGF-1 can indicate an imminent cancer:

Reductions in serum levels of insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1) correlate with the development of hepatocellular carcinoma in patients with hepatitis C (HCV)-related cirrhosis, according to results of prospective study conducted in Italy.

..

Additional analysis from 17 patients who developed hepatic carcinoma showed that 21 months before their cancer diagnosis, IGF-1 levels did not differ significantly from baseline. However, 9.3 months prior to their diagnosis, mean IGF-1 levels had declined significantly (p = 0.002).

"The occurrence of a yearly reduction in serum IGF-1 levels > 9.3 µg/L should induce clinicians to start more aggressive surveillance (at 3-month intervals) of patients to obtain an early diagnosis of hepatocellular carcinoma," Dr. Carella's group recommends. "Less aggressive surveillance (at 12-month intervals) could be continued in the other patients with lower decreases in serum IFG-1 levels."

The authors note that serum AFP levels were elevated in only 25% of patients who developed cancer. They conclude that serum IGF-1 levels possess greater diagnostic accuracy than do AFP determinations.
Source: IGF-1 levels predict liver cancer in patients with HCV-related cirrhosis
http://www.oncolink.org/resources/article.cfm?c=3&s=8&ss=23&Year=2002&Month=12&id=9188


I'm not an expert on this. The question I'd like to ask the experts here is do we want IGF-1 high or low?

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