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DMSA vs EDTA vs DMPS for metal chelation, and dosing

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DMSA vs EDTA vs DMPS for metal chelation, and dosing

Post  crincrin on Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:16 pm

What are the pros/cons (particularly side effects) of each? What doses are recommended? And what brands are reliable?

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Re: DMSA vs EDTA vs DMPS for metal chelation, and dosing

Post  pancacke on Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:49 pm

You want to chelate mercury right?
DMSA (alone or in combination with ALA): 1/8 to 1/2 mg of DMSA per pound of body weight, per dose
DMPS (alone): 1/4 to 1 mg of DMPS per pound of body weight, per dose (every 8 hours)

http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/Andy_dose_sched.html

Personally will start taking DMSA as soon as possible.

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Re: DMSA vs EDTA vs DMPS for metal chelation, and dosing

Post  crincrin on Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:27 pm

I'm more looking to chelate metals in general (lead, mercury, cadmium, etc). The level of lead in the general population are orders of magnitude more than the levels found in people living far from civilization. I also consumed lots of protein powder until a couple of days ago. They have been found to have high levels of heavy metals.

What I'm really curious about is the differences between those three chelators. Why would you use one over the other? Etc.

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Re: DMSA vs EDTA vs DMPS for metal chelation, and dosing

Post  pancacke on Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:51 pm

http://immortalhair.forumandco.com/natural-hair-regrowth-f1/black-rice-t4477-15.htm#41773

Look threw the metals list of symptoms and detox accordingly, ask if you want to know specific chealtion agents. For general detox you could use iodine/selenium and humifulvate, Modified Citrus Pectin...they cover a broad range.

I don't know if this is correct but I think I read somewhere that MSM always chelates the heaviest element it can find.......

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Re: DMSA vs EDTA vs DMPS for metal chelation, and dosing

Post  ubraj on Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:37 am

Unlike the others mentioned edta will pull minerals out of the body. Also, according to Boyd Haley believe he mentioned the edta/mercury bond is 100 times worse than mercury alone.

In short, avoid EDTA. Part of the reason why FDA is trying to crack down on chelation.


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Re: DMSA vs EDTA vs DMPS for metal chelation, and dosing

Post  crincrin on Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:12 am

jdp701 wrote:the edta/mercury bond is 100 times worse than mercury alone.

Do you mean that EDTA-mercury complex is more toxic than mercury alone?

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Re: DMSA vs EDTA vs DMPS for metal chelation, and dosing

Post  ubraj on Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:32 am

Yes.

some quotes

EDTA IVs are not advised for people who have mercury in their body
because the EDTA-mercury complex is about 100 x more toxic than
mercury itself (in other words it makes mercury poisoned people
sicker), and EDTA does not chelate mercury from the body (in other
words it doesn't help with the underlying problem).



We know
that EDTA will not pull on the mercury strongly enough to remove it
from the body - that has been established. I suspect that EDTA will
loosen it to some extent and thus a mercury poisoned person will have
some of the highly toxic EDTA-mercury complex zooming around for a bit
and then getting flung into sensitive tissues. Remember too that in
an IV treatment the dose of EDTA would be fairly large, flooding the
system, and could be loosening substantial quantities of metals.

The reports from real mercury poisoned adults who have had EDTA IV
treatments are consistent with my theory - they get worse with time
and often end up with some fairly strange problems that they didn't
have before EDTA IV treatment.
http://onibasu.com/archives/am/221656.html

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Re: DMSA vs EDTA vs DMPS for metal chelation, and dosing

Post  Yanks on Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:30 am

very interesting.. what about if we chelate mercury for a while (say via DMSA/ALA) and then do a round of EDTA? I wuold think it would help a lot with calcification in arteries and follicles etc. It seems we could get some regrowth w an approach like this as long as we can avoid the ill effects of EDTA

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Re: DMSA vs EDTA vs DMPS for metal chelation, and dosing

Post  Yanks on Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:34 am

Also, where is the best place to buy Detoxamin?

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Re: DMSA vs EDTA vs DMPS for metal chelation, and dosing

Post  4039 on Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:37 am

EDTA definitely has its benefits. Until undergoing a week's worth of EDTA, I was severely magnesium intolerant. Nothing is better for removing biliary sludge, busting up gallbladder stones and working on 1cm+ kidney stones. In suppository form, EDTA is especially good.

Though caution and care should be used with all these chelators. I wouldn't supplement with any chelator for long periods. And I would supplement with ALA, fulvic and malic acid, vitamin C, milk thistle long before using DMSA or EDTA.

I would certainly make sure to have a solid daily foundation of the basic co-factors as well. The toxic load could literally be deleterious. Last thing you want is to place a heavy load on an already fundamentally weakened organ.

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Re: DMSA vs EDTA vs DMPS for metal chelation, and dosing

Post  4039 on Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:40 am

Yanks wrote:Also, where is the best place to buy Detoxamin?

Best way to (cheaply) avoid the ill-effects of EDTA is probably in suppository form. The idea of actively allowing EDTA to cross the BBB is a little scary to me. Though, that's just my opinion.


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Re: DMSA vs EDTA vs DMPS for metal chelation, and dosing

Post  Paradox on Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:53 am

4039 wrote:
Yanks wrote:Also, where is the best place to buy Detoxamin?

Best way to (cheaply) avoid the ill-effects of EDTA is probably in suppository form. The idea of actively allowing EDTA to cross the BBB is a little scary to me. Though, that's just my opinion.


Suppository is just a more efficient delivery method than oral. That has nothing to do with edta crossing or not crossing the BBB. Whatever chelator you use, you want to cross the BBB to remove metal from the brain. Some like to remove it from the body first though.

For example DMSA won't cross the BBB but ALA will, so they are used together for synergism. Sometimes people chose to use DMSA alone first to get as much out of the body as they can before addressing the brain.

There's also a theory that if you remove it from the body, it will move "downstream" out of the brain. I don't buy that personally but I'm no expert.

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Re: DMSA vs EDTA vs DMPS for metal chelation, and dosing

Post  Paradox on Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:58 am

rdkml wrote:Yes.

some quotes

EDTA IVs are not advised for people who have mercury in their body
because the EDTA-mercury complex is about 100 x more toxic than
mercury itself (in other words it makes mercury poisoned people
sicker), and EDTA does not chelate mercury from the body (in other
words it doesn't help with the underlying problem).



We know
that EDTA will not pull on the mercury strongly enough to remove it
from the body - that has been established. I suspect that EDTA will
loosen it to some extent and thus a mercury poisoned person will have
some of the highly toxic EDTA-mercury complex zooming around for a bit
and then getting flung into sensitive tissues. Remember too that in
an IV treatment the dose of EDTA would be fairly large, flooding the
system, and could be loosening substantial quantities of metals.

The reports from real mercury poisoned adults who have had EDTA IV
treatments are consistent with my theory - they get worse with time
and often end up with some fairly strange problems that they didn't
have before EDTA IV treatment.
http://onibasu.com/archives/am/221656.html

Jdp,

I just scanned through that link you gave, and I'm wondering if you read this part:

Also, the
EDTA could make the Hg2+ more toxic. However, the increase in Hg2+
toxicity caused by EDTA would be much less than the decrease in
toxicity caused by removal of the Pb2+ by EDTA. Therefore, even
though I know that EDTA cannot be expected to pull Hg2+ off of
protein thiol groups (a covalent bond) it could reduce
the "effective toxicity" of Hg2+ by removing Pb2+, Cd2+ etc.
freeing up reduced glutathione to bind and remove Hg2+. Note,
in 'chelation therapy" the situation is this. The Hg2+ that has
been in the body for some time is likely already bound covalently
to protein and will not be made more toxic by EDTA----neither will
it be removed by EDTA. The other heavy metals do not form covalent
bonds and can be more easily bound and removed by EDTA. This
removal of other toxic metals would make it easier for the body to
detox Hg2+ if help is given to remove other toxic heavy metals. The
danger comes with circulating Hg2+ that is being newly introduced
to the body from amalgams or other sources, or the Hg2+ that is in
foods also containing EDTA (a common additive).

Sincerely, Boyd Haley
Boyd E. Haley 859-257-7082
Professor and Chair
Dept. of Chemistry
University of Kentucky

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Re: DMSA vs EDTA vs DMPS for metal chelation, and dosing

Post  4039 on Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:03 am

Paradox wrote:

Suppository is just a more efficient delivery method than oral. That has nothing to do with edta crossing or not crossing the BBB. Whatever chelator you use, you want to cross the BBB to remove metal from the brain. Some like to remove it from the body first though.

I could be wrong, but I thought Detoxamin was a liposomal form, meaning it would indeed cross the BBB.

BTW, here's another interesting opinion from a doctor chelating with these materials daily.
http://gordonresearch.com/articles_mercury/edta_safe_for_brain.html

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Re: DMSA vs EDTA vs DMPS for metal chelation, and dosing

Post  Gibson on Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:27 am

I just started using EDTA, both internally and topically, the one by Arizona Naturals. So far i like it, I picked it up because I am pretty certain excess calcium is major factor for me, interms of calcification and circulation..

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