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CS: Multivitamin, Dessicated Liver & Brewer's Yeast

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CS: Multivitamin, Dessicated Liver & Brewer's Yeast

Post  teacup on Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:02 am

CS,
Despite doing my best to have the most balanced diet it is tough.. So I was thinking of a multi vitamin but knowing which brand has the correct mix, in correct ratios, and one that is synthetic-free and pollutant-free is proving difficult likely due to my lack of knowledge.

I also found this quote you wrote in 2008

Personally, I would prefer to spend the money on Brewer's yeast, which provides all the B-complex (except the B12), and then take a seperate mineral formula along with tocotrienols, in the end you'll save money and get more benefits.

If I take brewer's Yeast, how should I supplement for B12?
Where do I get tocotrienols and minerals from?
What's your current position on Multivitamins vs. Dessicated Liver vs. Brewer's Yeast?
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Re: CS: Multivitamin, Dessicated Liver & Brewer's Yeast

Post  CausticSymmetry on Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:41 am

teacup - Some way to get multi-minerals and vitamins are from whole food sources like Spirulina, Chlorella, Bee products (like Royal Jelly), and of course Desiccated liver and Brewer's yeast.

Toco-sorb from Jarrow is an economical source of tocotrienols.


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Re: CS: Multivitamin, Dessicated Liver & Brewer's Yeast

Post  teacup on Fri Dec 31, 2010 4:32 am

Thanks, Say I took the above (Brewer's yeast, Pollen, Spirulina, Chlorella, Dessicated Liver, and Toco-sorb) along with Magnesium, Vitamin C and D+K, and Krill Oil. Plus the top 6 from the IH regimen.

Is there any other supplement to add to this ... for additional/lacking nutrients/minerals/multi-vitamins?
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Re: CS: Multivitamin, Dessicated Liver & Brewer's Yeast

Post  mphatesmpb on Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:32 pm

CS,

Is there any particular reason you don't include tocotrienols as part of your regimen? I have seen a number of impressive studies about its effect on hair loss (though the general opinion on internet forums is not as impressive - don't know what's up with that).

-MP
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Re: CS: Multivitamin, Dessicated Liver & Brewer's Yeast

Post  CausticSymmetry on Sat Jan 01, 2011 8:43 pm

mphatesmpb - Tocotrienols are great, and I think quite valuable. I would say absolutely essential if anyone is ingesting any hydrogenated oils or transfatty acids. I'm not perfect by any means with diet, however I go to great lengths to avoid consuming any trans-fats and/or hydrogenated oils.

I will eat processed food here and there, but if the label reads partially hydrogenated oils, I won't consume it at all (regardless of a "0" trans-fat content).

Tocotrienols is probably the only thing in nature that can partially compensate for trans-fatty acid consumption. It is generally unavoidable in restaurants or in processed food, so it is quite important.

Tocotrienols are far more important than vitamin E. The more aggressive the hair loss, the greater importance also on this. Tocotrienols lower Lp(a).


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Re: CS: Multivitamin, Dessicated Liver & Brewer's Yeast

Post  scottyc33 on Sun Jan 02, 2011 9:25 am

teacup wrote:Thanks, Say I took the above (Brewer's yeast, Pollen, Spirulina, Chlorella, Dessicated Liver, and Toco-sorb) along with Magnesium, Vitamin C and D+K, and Krill Oil. Plus the top 6 from the IH regimen.

Is there any other supplement to add to this ... for additional/lacking nutrients/minerals/multi-vitamins?

Iodine?

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Re: CS: Multivitamin, Dessicated Liver & Brewer's Yeast

Post  scottyc33 on Sun Jan 02, 2011 9:33 am

CausticSymmetry wrote:teacup - Some way to get multi-minerals and vitamins are from whole food sources like Spirulina, Chlorella, Bee products (like Royal Jelly), and of course Desiccated liver and Brewer's yeast.

Toco-sorb from Jarrow is an economical source of tocotrienols.


CS - what about stabilized rice bran as a source of tocotrienols?

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Re: CS: Multivitamin, Dessicated Liver & Brewer's Yeast

Post  j87x on Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:38 pm

I don't understand how b vitamins from a food source are better than synthetic vitamins. They are all in the same forms (thiamine, niacin, riboflavin, etc). How are they more bioavailable if they are the same form, and the same molecular structure?

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Re: CS: Multivitamin, Dessicated Liver & Brewer's Yeast

Post  Mastery on Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:12 pm


Food source is always better for reasons that we may not fully be able to quantify, but it's true.

As for what CS is talking about - I agree:- try cutting out all cooked oils from your diet and see what it does to your scalp. Hello - what a difference. And see how it makes you feel - woof!

M
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Re: CS: Multivitamin, Dessicated Liver & Brewer's Yeast

Post  j87x on Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:20 pm

Mastery wrote:
Food source is always better for reasons that we may not fully be able to quantify, but it's true.

As for what CS is talking about - I agree:- try cutting out all cooked oils from your diet and see what it does to your scalp. Hello - what a difference. And see how it makes you feel - woof!

M

I was hoping there was a more scientific answer other than an "appeal to nature." Ascorbic acid is just one part of the vitamin C, fruits contain a handful of other co-factors and enzymes that go along with it. I don't see this with vitamin B, unless the b vitamins in brewer's yeast actually are in different forms than a synthetic b-complex, but I can't find that info anywhere.

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Re: CS: Multivitamin, Dessicated Liver & Brewer's Yeast

Post  Mastery on Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:53 pm


Science is always like a small blanket on a cold night, helpful but never big enough to keep you warm.

Read Kuhn "structure of scientfic revolutions"

As for why natural is better, this is no simple statemnt but the most profound expresson of biological divinity and epistemological humility.

Don't take my word for it though - look up Svent Gyorgi

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Re: CS: Multivitamin, Dessicated Liver & Brewer's Yeast

Post  empty on Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:56 am

Mastery, you didn't ever really answer his question...

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Re: CS: Multivitamin, Dessicated Liver & Brewer's Yeast

Post  Mastery on Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:33 am


With respect, I did do my very best and my time is sometimes very short to answer very long answers which are needed to such quesions. Just look up why Szent Gyrogi did so well when he realised lemon juice healed scurvy but Vit c did not. CS is right, its the same get your B vits from nature as much as you can but take a supp to play safe too.

Nature is our teacher, we are not controllers of it. We are students. Gaia hypothesis et al., and feedback loops.

Sorry, if that's not enough - but at least it sets out the prinicple.

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Re: CS: Multivitamin, Dessicated Liver & Brewer's Yeast

Post  tooyoung on Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:24 am

CS, how much spirulina and chorella is good enough? I was looking up potential supps I could add to my regimen and saw osteoboron had spirulina in.

http://www.iherb.com/Now-Foods-OsteoBoron-90-Vcaps/4849?at=0

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Re: CS: Multivitamin, Dessicated Liver & Brewer's Yeast

Post  mphatesmpb on Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:46 am


Natural B Vitamins Are Better Than Synthetic Ones


By: Robert J Thiel, Ph.D., N.D.
Introduction

At our office, we sometimes recommend products which contain various B vitamins. Some of our clients have indicated that the synthetic B vitamins that they take are at least as good because they normally contain higher amounts of the individual vitamins than the food formulas we normally recommend. Is this true? Are humans better off eating higher amounts of un-natural synthetics or smaller amounts of food complex B vitamins?

United States Pharmacopoeia (USP) synthetic vitamin B isolates are not food, even though they are often called "natural" and are sometimes added to foods—they are synthesized, standardized chemical isolates1. In nature, vitamins are never isolated: they are always present in the form of food vitamin-complexes2-4. This paper will discuss some of the physiochemical differences between individual natural B vitamins and synthetic ones, as well as cite clinical research which suggest that vitamins in a food complex are superior to USP isolated ones.

Vitamin B1, Thiamin The free vitamin B1 (called thiamin) is a base. When it is synthesized it becomes a solid salt such as thiamin hydrochloride or thiamin mononitrate5. Synthetically thiamin is usually marketed as thiamin hydrochloride or thiamin mononitrate6 and is a made from Grewe diamine (a coal tar derivative7) processed with ammonia and other chemicals8. No thiamin hydrochloride (often listed as thiamin HCL) or thiamin mononitrate is naturally found in food or the body (thiamin pyrophosphate is the predominant form in the body(9) 6. Yeast and legumes are excellent food sources of natural thiamin9.

"Thiamin is rapidly destroyed above pH 8...the addition of sodium bicarbonate to green beans and peas to retain their color or to dried beans to soften their skins inactivates thiamin" 9. High heat, x-rays, and UV irradiation also destroy thiamin9,10 Thiamin mononitrate tends to be used for food fortification since it is more stable under storage and processing conditions 6. An animal study found that a natural food complex vitamin B1 was absorbed 1.38 times more into the blood and was retained 1.27 times more in the liver than an isolated USP thiamin hydrochloride11.

Vitamin B2, Riboflavin The free vitamin B2 (called riboflavin) is a weak base. When synthesized it becomes an orange amorphous solid12. Some synthetic riboflavin analogues have very weak vitaminic activity12. Some natural variations, especially in coenzyme forms, occur in plant (including fungal) species13. One study found that the pasteurization of bovine milk seems to reduce the bound form of riboflavin from 13.6% to 2% [14]. An animal study found that a natural food complex vitamin B2 was absorbed into the blood and was retained 1.92 times more in the liver than an isolated USP riboflavin 11.

Vitamin ‘B3’, Niacinamide "Niacin is a generic term...the two coenzymes that are the metabolically active forms of niacin (are)...nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD) and NAD phosphate (NADP)...Only small amounts of free forms of niacin occur in nature. Most of the niacin in food is present as a component of NAD and NADP...nicotinamide is more soluble in water, alcohol, and ether than nicotinic acid...many analogues of niacin have been synthesized, some of which have antivitamin activity "15.

Niacinamide (also called nicotinamide) is considered to have less potential side-effects than niacin15; it also does not seem to cause gastrointestinal upset or hepatotoxicity that the synthetic time-released niacin can cause16. Beef, legumes, cereal grains, yeast, and fish are significant natural food sources of vitamin B316. Processing losses for this vitamin are mainly due to water leaching17. Synthetic niacin is usually made in a process involving formaldehyde and ammonia8. An animal study found that natural food complex niacinamide is 3.94 times more absorbed in the blood than USP niacinamide and 1.7 times more retained in the liver than isolated USP niacinamide11.

Vitamin ‘B5’, Pantothenate Pantothenate was once known as vitamin B518. USP "Pantothenic acid consists of pantoic acid in amide linkage to beta-alanine", but the vitamin sometimes referred to as B-5 is not found that way in nature19. In food it is found as pantothenate; foods do not naturally contain pantothenic acid19. "Synthetic D-pantothenate, the active enantiomer is available as a calcium or sodium salt. However, multivitamin preparations commonly contain its more stable alcohol derivative, panthenol"20. Producing synthetic pantothenic acid involves the use of formaldehyde8. Organ meats, yeast, egg yolks, and broccoli are rich dietary sources of natural pantothenate20. Cooking meat and the processing of vegetables lead to significant losses of pantothenate (15-50% and 37-78% respectively)20.

Vitamin B6 "An understanding of the various forms and quantities of these forms in foods is important in the evaluation of the bioavailability and metabolism of vitamin B-6"... one of the forms that vitamin B-6 exists is in the form of "5’0-(beta-Dglycopyransosyl) pyridoxine. To date only plant foods have been found to contain this interesting form of vitamin B-6"21. Yeast and rice bran contain more natural vitamin B6 than other foods22. The most common form in vitamin pills is USP pyridoxine hydrochloride which is not naturally found in food23. At least one synthetic vitamin B-6 analogue has been found to inhibit natural vitamin B6 action24.

Vitamin B6 supports the nervous, skin, and tongue; severe shortages result in abnormal brain patterns and convulsions25. Synthetic B6 usually requires formaldehyde in its production 49 and the extremely high amounts used in some synthetic supplements poses more risk than the lower amounts generally found in food vitamins 23. An animal study found that natural food complex vitamin B6 was absorbed 2.54 times more into the blood and was retained 1.56 times more in the liver than an isolated USP form11.

Vitamin ‘B9’, Folate The vitamin once known as vitamin M (and also vitamin B918) exists in foods as folate (also known as pteroylglutamate)26. Initially, natural food complex folate was given for people with a pregnancy-related anemia in the form of autolyzed yeast; later a synthetic USP isolate was developed26. Pteroylglutamic acid, the common pharmacological (USP) form known as folic acid, is not found significantly as such in the body and appears to be absorbed differently than folate26. Folic acid is not found in foods, but folate is26. Herbert reports a study found "that consumption of more than 266mcg of synthetic folic acid (PGA) results in absorption of unreduced PGA, which may interfere with folate metabolism for a period of years" 26. Fortification with synthetic folic acid has been found to increase consumption for those who already have higher dietary intakes of folate more than those with lower intakes27. It is believed that fortification with synthetic folic acid may put a portion of the population at risk for vitamin B12 deficiency28, yet all grain products advertised as enriched must (according to the US FDA) be fortified with folic acid29. "Foods with the highest folate content per dry weight include yeast, liver and organ meats, fresh green vegetables and some fruits"26. Food processing is a concern since "50-95% of folate in food may be destroyed by protracted cooking or other processing such as canning, and all folate is lost from refined foods such as sugars, hard liquor, and hard candies"26. An animal study found that a natural food complex folate was absorbed only 1.07 times more into the blood, yet was retained 2.13 times more in the liver than isolated USP folic acid 11.

Vitamin B12 Initially natural food complex vitamin B12 was given for people with pernicious anemia in the form of raw liver, but due to cost considerations a synthetic USP isolate was developed30. Cyanocobalamin (the common pharmacological/USP form of vitamin B12) is not found significantly as such in the body; it is usually present in reduced metabolically active coenzyme forms (without the cyanide) often conjugated in peptide linkage31-32. According to Herbert (and others) vitamin B-12 when ingested in its human-active form is non-toxic, yet Herbert and Das have warned that "the efficacy and safety of the vitamin B12 analogues created by nutrient-nutrient interaction in vitamin-mineral supplements is unknown"31. Some synthetic vitamin B12 analogues seem to be antagonistic to vitamin B12 activity in the body 33-34. Synthetic B-12 is made through a fermentation process with the addition of cyanide8. An animal study found that a natural food complex vitamin B12 was absorbed 2.56 times more into the blood and was retained 1.59 times more in the liver than isolated USP cyanocobalamin11.
Food Processing and Fortification

The primary reason that nutrition became recognized as a separate science was the result of food processing. The refining of brown rice into white rice reduced B-complex vitamins and initially led to deaths in Asia due to beriberi5,35. At first beri-beri was thought to be due to an infection, until it was learned that it was due to a lack of B vitamins. Actually, the reason they are called ‘B’ vitamins, is that the B initially stood for ‘beri-beri’. The ‘solution’ to beri-beri was to add synthetic USP vitamins. Even though synthetic USP vitamins are added to white rice and does help prevent beri-beri, this ‘fortified’ white rice does not contain the same nutrients as unpolished brown rice (nor does white flour contain the same nutrients as whole flour)35,36 and can contribute to other health problems (such as constipation due to lack of fiber). Adding synthetics, most of which are not in the same chemical form as found in food vitamins, forces the body to digest them in ways it never should have to—why add this unnatural digestive stress?

The earlier refining of corn meal which reduced natural vitamin B-3 and amino acid levels was so devastating it produced around U.S. 7,000 deaths per year for several decades [37]. The refining of whole grains (including wheat, rice, and corn) has resulted in a dramatic reduction of their natural food complex nutrients25,35. The milling of wheat to white flour reduces the natural food complex vitamin and mineral content by 40-60%35. Various food processing techniques (including pasteurization of milk) reduce the available vitamin B6 in foods by 10-50%35-36. Irradiation of meat and other foods "changes the characteristics of food"6 and has been found to reduce levels of vitamins B1, B6, and other nutrient levels6,22,37. Unknown nutrients may also be affected from food processing. No one yet knows how the combinations of these more recent food processing techniques will effect human health38, but it is not likely that they will promote optimal nutrition. In nature, vitamins are never isolated. The primary reason that isolated USP vitamins were developed was cost30.

A secondary reason probably was standardization (it is harder to standardize food), including stability1,6,26. Neither reason justifies placing USP isolates on the same health level as natural vitamins as found in foods.
Conclusion

Studies suggest that the bioavailability of natural food complex B vitamins is better than that of isolated USP vitaminse.g. 5,12, that they may have better effects on maintaining aspects of human health beyond traditional vitamin deficiency syndromes, and at least some seem to be preferentially retained by the human body11. It is not always clear if these advantages are due to the physiochemical form of the vitamin, with the other food constituents that are naturally found with them, or some combination.

Regardless, it seems logical to conclude that for purposes of maintaining normal health, natural vitamins are superior to synthetic ones. Eating high dose synthetic B vitamins is like trying to make a computer when you only have 90% of the pieces with many of those pieces being larger than normal size; eating natural B vitamins is like trying to make a computer with 100% of the parts with all the parts the correct size. Which of the ‘computers’ would work better? Obviously the one with 100% of the right parts!

Most people can improve their health by eating health-building whole foods such as fruits and vegetables and whole grains (and consuming less refined carbohydrates) [25]. This alone can help increase the consumption of natural B vitamins. Vitamin B nutrition should come from food or from supplements which are as close to food as possible. Since no one knows everything there is to know about nutrition, it seems logical from both a historical and modern perspective to consume vitamins in the forms found in natural food complexes and not to try to build health based on chemical isolates.
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Re: CS: Multivitamin, Dessicated Liver & Brewer's Yeast

Post  CausticSymmetry on Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:19 am

Nice article!


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Re: CS: Multivitamin, Dessicated Liver & Brewer's Yeast

Post  fadero on Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:20 am

How effective is raw wheat germ as a source of tocotrienols?

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Re: CS: Multivitamin, Dessicated Liver & Brewer's Yeast

Post  Delphine on Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:19 am

I was reviewing this thread and was inspired to do a search on the above question. http://intuitivepathsuperfoods.com/products/tocotrienols-raw-organictocotrienol/

The current commercial sources of tocotrienol are rice, palm, and annatto.[10] The ratio of tocopherol-to-tocotrienol in rice, palm, and annatto is 50:50, 25:75, and 0.1:99.9, respectively.

Other natural tocotrienol sources include rice bran oil, coconut oil, cocoa butter, barley, and wheat germ.[11] Sunflower, peanut, walnut, sesame, and olive oils, however contain only tocopherols.[12] Vitamin E supplements typically supply 50–200 mg/day of mixed tocotrienols.

But I looked at the info on my bottle of vitamin E supplement, Unique E, which is supposed to be a pure concentrated form of the natural E complex, and didn't see anything about tocotrienols. Did another search, it seems they produce a tocotrienols supplement separately.

I agree with the article posted about getting our B vitamins from natural sources. That's why I take brewer's yeast and desiccated liver. Been taking more desiccated liver tablets lately, makes a good difference. I also eat fresh liver, including chicken liver.
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Re: CS: Multivitamin, Dessicated Liver & Brewer's Yeast

Post  scottyc33 on Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:35 am

j87x wrote:
Mastery wrote:
Food source is always better for reasons that we may not fully be able to quantify, but it's true.

As for what CS is talking about - I agree:- try cutting out all cooked oils from your diet and see what it does to your scalp. Hello - what a difference. And see how it makes you feel - woof!

M

I was hoping there was a more scientific answer other than an "appeal to nature." Ascorbic acid is just one part of the vitamin C, fruits contain a handful of other co-factors and enzymes that go along with it. I don't see this with vitamin B, unless the b vitamins in brewer's yeast actually are in different forms than a synthetic b-complex, but I can't find that info anywhere.

When I take a synthetic multi, without fail, my pee turns neon yellow. For some reason this is especially true for B complex vitamins. This does not happen when I take large quantities of whole food based sources of vitamins.


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