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is Taking Agnus Castus (Vitex) crazy for a male?

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is Taking Agnus Castus (Vitex) crazy for a male?

Post  FireFist on Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:14 am

I was just about to start my new regimen when i googled vitex it seems to be mostly for women and can decrease testis size and reduce T and all kinds of other shit

These are the results i got from my hair text:
http://immortalhair.forumandco.com/t4677-my-hair-tests-results-please-input-guys

So would it be safe to take Vitex?

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Re: is Taking Agnus Castus (Vitex) crazy for a male?

Post  Misirlou on Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:04 am

CS did previously slightly recommend (correct me if I'm wrong) Vitex...but I think he replaced the Vitex recommendation with something else, something more suitable.

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Re: is Taking Agnus Castus (Vitex) crazy for a male?

Post  CausticSymmetry on Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:18 am

FireFist - If you take St. Vitex (Chasteberry), it's the dose that matters. Too little raises prolactin levels (not what you want). If you take enough (preferably closer to 400 milligrams), it will help keep prolactin low (something you do want).


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Re: is Taking Agnus Castus (Vitex) crazy for a male?

Post  FireFist on Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:59 am

Im just asking this because i read here:
http://www.ehow.com/about_5547621_side-effects-agnus-castus.html
http://www.trying-to-conceive.com/alternative-treatments/vitex-chasteberry-side-effects/

Some scary stuff about reduce in T, and testis shrinking etc. Bah!

The Naturapist told me to take 40mg x 3 times a day, so 120mg daily.
What is the reasoning behind this supplement? what is it going to do?

Even the label on this product says its for women (overall feminine health and balance premenstrual women). For crist sake, what do you say CS?

http://www.iherb.com/Nature-s-Answer-Vitex-Agnus-Castus-Chastetree-Berry-90-Veggie-Caps/5191?at=0 the product i have

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Re: is Taking Agnus Castus (Vitex) crazy for a male?

Post  CausticSymmetry on Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:06 am

FireFist - It's rare for something to be specifically for women or men, at least in the natural kingdom. Chasteberry (St. Vitex) when used in dosages above 120 mg will help lower prolactin levels.

Elevated prolactin increases DHT and is also a factor in hair loss (think of the inflammation that occurs following intercourse).

Lowering prolactin is good for acne also.


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Re: is Taking Agnus Castus (Vitex) crazy for a male?

Post  FireFist on Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:29 am

CS, thank god you exist. (hah!)

Really though, can you comment on the two links i provided? wont vitex reduce T and cause some infertility SE in males? (as stated in those 2 studies)

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Re: is Taking Agnus Castus (Vitex) crazy for a male?

Post  CausticSymmetry on Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:44 am

FireFist - The does makes all the difference, also, unlike the study referenced on the link you mentioned, this study below was performed on humans (males), not rats.

Exp Clin Endocrinol Diabetes. 1996;104(6):447-53.
The effects of a special Agnus castus extract (BP1095E1) on prolactin secretion in healthy male subjects.
Merz PG, Gorkow C, Schrödter A, Rietbrock S, Sieder C, Loew D, Dericks-Tan JS, Taubert HD.

Department for Clinical Pharmacology, Frankfurt University Clinic, Neumarkt, Germany.

The effects of three doses of a special Agnus castus extract (BP1095E1)--extracts from 120 mg, 240 mg and 480 mg of drug per day--were examined within the framework of a placebo-controlled clinical study of tolerance and prolactin secretion in 20 healthy male subjects during a period of 14 days. There was good tolerance during the study as regards the following: adverse effects, the effects on blood pressure and heart rate, blood count, Quick's test, clinical chemistry as well as testosterone, FSH and LH values. During each study phase the 24-hour prolactin secretion profile was measured from the penultimate to the final day, and the amount of prolactin release was monitored an hour after TRH stimulation on the last day. A significant increase in the 24-hour profile was registered with the lowest dose in comparison to placebo, the opposite being the case with the higher doses, i.e. a slight reduction. In contrast to the administration of placebo, the 1-hour AUC after TRH stimulation resulted in a significant increase with the lowest dose and a significant reduction with the highest dose. The results suggest effects of the special Agnus castus extract which are dependent on the dose administered and the initial level of prolactin concentration.


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Re: is Taking Agnus Castus (Vitex) crazy for a male?

Post  FireFist on Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:30 pm

Thank for your parents for having you for me CS

Why is it good to lower prolactin secretion? (what does it do good?)
What possible SE i "may" encounter?

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Re: is Taking Agnus Castus (Vitex) crazy for a male?

Post  tooyoung on Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:13 am

CS, would this chasteberry supp be good enough?

http://www.iherb.com/Nature-s-Way-Vitex-Fruit-400-mg-100-Capsules/2053?at=0


If excess masturbation caused too much prolactin, could I take 1 of these chasteberry for 3 months, while normalising thyroid with iodine, and then not reorder the chasteberry. I'm planning on adding zinc into the mix as well. All while asbtaining.

Would that work, or have I got something wrong?

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Re: is Taking Agnus Castus (Vitex) crazy for a male?

Post  CausticSymmetry on Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:38 am

FireFist wrote:Thank for your parents for having you for me CS

Why is it good to lower prolactin secretion? (what does it do good?)
What possible SE i "may" encounter?

Prolactin is a negative factor for hair growth. Too much will induce sleeping stages of hair follicles, it will also reduce growth phases.

Prolactin can be elevated during a low thyroid condition.


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Re: is Taking Agnus Castus (Vitex) crazy for a male?

Post  CausticSymmetry on Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:40 am

tooyoung wrote:CS, would this chasteberry supp be good enough?

http://www.iherb.com/Nature-s-Way-Vitex-Fruit-400-mg-100-Capsules/2053?at=0


If excess masturbation caused too much prolactin, could I take 1 of these chasteberry for 3 months, while normalising thyroid with iodine, and then not reorder the chasteberry. I'm planning on adding zinc into the mix as well. All while asbtaining.

Would that work, or have I got something wrong?

All you really can do is test it out. Human physiology is too complex to speculate on how well this will work (or not). I should point out that abstaining isn't necessary if everything is in balance.


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Re: is Taking Agnus Castus (Vitex) crazy for a male?

Post  tooyoung on Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:06 pm

Alright, thanks for the reply CS, I'll give it a shot, everythings not in balance with me and I just feel at the moment abstaining is the right thing to do.

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Re: is Taking Agnus Castus (Vitex) crazy for a male?

Post  CausticSymmetry on Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:13 pm

tooyoung - One thing I forgot to mention, the chasteberry is fine. The dosage being 400 mg or greater is ideal.


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Re: is Taking Agnus Castus (Vitex) crazy for a male?

Post  oblomov on Tue Apr 12, 2011 3:42 pm

CausticSymmetry wrote:FireFist - It's rare for something to be specifically for women or men, at least in the natural kingdom. Chasteberry (St. Vitex) when used in dosages above 120 mg will help lower prolactin levels.

Elevated prolactin increases DHT and is also a factor in hair loss (think of the inflammation that occurs following intercourse).

Lowering prolactin is good for acne also.


As CS implies above, prolactin is one of the key stress hormones. It can increase DHT and damage your hair.

Although estrogen is a moderate prolactin antagonist, there's no need to take estrogenic substances to decrease prolactin.

Just take a dopamine agonist, such as mucuna pruriens. Dopamine was first known as prolactin inhibiting factor, before its full role in the body as a catecholamine was known. It directly inhibits prolactin production in the pituitary.

But Vitex may have other beneficial properties besides decreasing prolactin.



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Re: is Taking Agnus Castus (Vitex) crazy for a male?

Post  FireFist on Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:58 pm

I dont get it, is vitex healthy? is it recommanded?
what are the potencial side effects?

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Re: is Taking Agnus Castus (Vitex) crazy for a male?

Post  tooyoung on Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:00 am

Is vitex a dopamine agonist?

CS, does this make sense? Excess masturbation has caused caused my prolactin levels to go up, lowering my dopamine levels, which makes me have poor concentration and motivation. Also lowering testosterone and wasting zinc through ejaculation and semen.

Also, does altering dopamine levels, effect the balance with serotonin, which lowers melatonin production and causes me to have bad sleep problems.

By searching the forums I saw you said in the past "If sugar cravings or alcohol cravings exist, or have potential low thyroid it can be a sign of excess prolactin."

I have been taking iodine now for around 2 months, I have both sugar and alcohol cravings and have suspected thyroid problems, this could show a potential link to excess prolactin?

I've read ejaculation raises cortisol, you've said in the past, "Sure, but short term cortisol isn't all that bad--only chronic, long term rises in cortisol."
Surely raising this cortisol multiple times every day is classed as chronic and bad? Which may be linked to my periods of high anxiety.

Does that make any sense at all? Is the root of my problems masturbation? What course of action could solve this problem?

I was thinking Phosphatidylserine for cortisol and increasing testosterone and improving cognitive function. Zinc. Vitex or mucuna pruriens to lower prolactin short time while the thyroid improves. Iodine to normalise the thyroid and prolactin. Melatonin to help sleep. Abstaining.

Could this theoretically work?

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Re: is Taking Agnus Castus (Vitex) crazy for a male?

Post  CausticSymmetry on Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:01 pm

tooyoung - You might want to take a look at this thread:

http://immortalhair.forumandco.com/t5318-l-ornithine-attenuates-corticotropin-releasing-factor-induced-stress-responses-acting-at-gabaa-receptors

You might be interested in trying 3 to 6 grams of L-ornithine at night. It helps with sleep and it might reduce
corticotropin-releasing factor. Not only is this useful for GH, but having a good sleep is vital for hair or body growth.

Taking 5-HTP may help (everyone is different), so if that doesn't work there are other methods also.

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Re: is Taking Agnus Castus (Vitex) crazy for a male?

Post  tooyoung on Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:59 am

Thanks CS, would just L-ornithine solve all the problems? Should I not take the other things?

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Re: is Taking Agnus Castus (Vitex) crazy for a male?

Post  CausticSymmetry on Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:51 am

tooyoung wrote:Thanks CS, would just L-ornithine solve all the problems? Should I not take the other things?

The cortisol and dopamine are not really related to each other, not exactly.

Trouble sleeping can be a result of a few things.

To answer your question, PS is pretty expensive stuff, and maybe not what you're looking for. There are cheaper ways to lower cortisol.

Cortisol can keep you awake if you make too much of it at night. It's possible that L-ornithine might help.


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Re: is Taking Agnus Castus (Vitex) crazy for a male?

Post  tooyoung on Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:23 pm

I was hoping the PS would help short term with some memory and other brain problems. Got important exams coming up next 2 months and it was a kind of desperate attempt to increase how much I can memorise and recall.

What about the other parts, prolactin, testosterone etc. Should I take the vitex, zinc as planned?

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Re: is Taking Agnus Castus (Vitex) crazy for a male?

Post  j87x on Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:54 pm

Any idea how long elevated levels of prolactin stays in the blood after excessive sexual activity? I got my test results back and for prolactin was 7.0, normal range is 2.0 - 18.0 ng/mL for males >18 years. This was after stopping chasteberry for a couple weeks. Testosterone was high. In the studies, how high does prolactin have to be to aggravate hairloss? I'm trying to figure out whether or not it would still be beneficial to take it at all.

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Re: is Taking Agnus Castus (Vitex) crazy for a male?

Post  Misirlou on Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:27 pm

What would signs of high prolactin content in the body be?

CS: Why did you stop using chasteberry?

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Re: is Taking Agnus Castus (Vitex) crazy for a male?

Post  tooyoung on Thu May 12, 2011 5:30 am

Been looking around and mucuna pruriens seems better than chasteberry with many other benefits. Can I take chasteberry and mucuna pruriens at the same time? What about Damiana with those two?

CS, when searching I saw you tried some Damiana back in 2009 I think it was, how did it go?

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Re: is Taking Agnus Castus (Vitex) crazy for a male?

Post  CausticSymmetry on Thu May 12, 2011 7:18 am

Misirlou wrote:What would signs of high prolactin content in the body be?

CS: Why did you stop using chasteberry?

Before I really started with the iodine obsession, I was using chasteberry to control any possible elevation of prolactin. I also take MP as well. With iodine it isn't really necessary, since the thyroid is usually the culprit behind an elevation of prolactin (unless the pituitary gland has a problem).


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Re: is Taking Agnus Castus (Vitex) crazy for a male?

Post  CausticSymmetry on Thu May 12, 2011 7:21 am

tooyoung wrote:Been looking around and mucuna pruriens seems better than chasteberry with many other benefits. Can I take chasteberry and mucuna pruriens at the same time? What about Damiana with those two?

CS, when searching I saw you tried some Damiana back in 2009 I think it was, how did it go?

Damiana looked interesting and it's funny, but I didn't keep up with it. The research was interesting.
I'll have to revisit it again and see if there's any new findings.

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