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Vitamin K Safety and Statins

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Vitamin K Safety and Statins

Post  MikeGore on Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:03 pm

Hi,

I just wanted to ask are there any dangers of Vitamin K (100 microgram) included in a multivitamin, of any dangerous interactions with statins, which is to be taken by someone in their late 50s.

My concern is that, doesn't vitamin K make the blood clot more? So if a person has high cholesterol and takes vitamin K, isn't that dangerous?

I am also confused about Vitamin K2, since we are told it is good for cardiovascular health and the dosage can be very high. Is Vitamin K very different from Vitamin K2?


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Re: Vitamin K Safety and Statins

Post  a<r on Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:36 pm

Vitamin K regulates clotting, both up and down.

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Re: Vitamin K Safety and Statins

Post  CausticSymmetry on Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:22 am

MikeGore wrote:Hi,

I just wanted to ask are there any dangers of Vitamin K (100 microgram) included in a multivitamin, of any dangerous interactions with statins, which is to be taken by someone in their late 50s.

My concern is that, doesn't vitamin K make the blood clot more? So if a person has high cholesterol and takes vitamin K, isn't that dangerous?

I am also confused about Vitamin K2, since we are told it is good for cardiovascular health and the dosage can be very high. Is Vitamin K very different from Vitamin K2?


I second A > R, also if you know someone who is taking a statin, I would recommend in the highest way to tell them to stop taking it.

Hopefully my article below will convince them to do so.

http://healthyfixx.com/15/the-truth-about-statin-drugs-may-cause-heart-attacks

Vitamin K not only helps the blood clot, it also helps prevent clotting. You won't hear that from a typical doctor, because they haven't learned one ounce of nutrition, at least nothing current.

It is well known that vitamin K is cautioned from the user of certain anti-coagulation medications, such as coumadin (also known as rat poison). However, that caution is false, to find out how, please read more info about it here and how it relates to vitamin K:

http://www.immortalhair.org/apps/blog/show/1671916-do-you-take-prescription-rat-poison-

Now in regards to statins in particular, it has nothing to do with clotting. Statins 'work' not by lowering cholesterol, but by increasing the activity of the Vitamin D receptor. Do note that it actually uses up vitamin D, and since the mechanism of statins benefit wise is by way of lowering inflammation, the very same action can be achieved simply by taking vitamin D and vitamin C.

Even better, without risk of side-effects. With a statin drug, you trade off a mild benefit with an increased risk of dying and serious side-effects. The mild benefit is prevention of a non-fatal heart attack in one out of 80 users.

Taking Vitamin K2 would be much smarter than taking a statin because one of the real causes of a fatal heart attack is a clot, it has absolutely nothing to do with cholesterol whatsoever. I wonder how long this myth will continue. Also vitamin K2 helps prevent calcification of the arteries and the heart valves.

The only thing dangerous would be to take a statin drug.



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Re: Vitamin K Safety and Statins

Post  4039 on Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:43 am

I've literally seen statins make perfectly healthy people into cripples suffering from undiagnosable mystery ailments. Full recovery from statin poisoning is even less likely than from almost any other pharmaceutical.

http://www.spacedoc.net

Make sure to visit the forum.
http://www.spacedoc.com/board/

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Re: Vitamin K Safety and Statins

Post  MikeGore on Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:08 am

Thanks for those replies.

I agree with what you have said about statins. I have hold him about this. The difficulty in situations like this is that, what I recommend is different to what the doctor prescribes, and it puts me in a situation where, if I insist upon him not to take the statin drug etc, and then something bad happens later on, I would probably be blamed and I would also feel responsible. Even showing articles, still wouldn't be enough, because mostly it is assumed that the doctor is always right.

I have told him that he should at least supplement with CoQ10 enzyme if he is to take a statin. I think the safest way would be to recommend taking, Vitamin K2 and D3, and then gradually reduce the statin. Did you say vitamin D + C has the same benefits to a statin? What type are we talking here D3 or any? Also would D and C in a multivitamin (like solgar which has high RDA amounts) suffice?

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Re: Vitamin K Safety and Statins

Post  Foodjobber on Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:12 pm

CausticSymmetry wrote:
Vitamin K not only helps the blood clot, it also helps prevent clotting. You won't hear that from a typical doctor, because they haven't learned one ounce of nutrition, at least nothing current.

Any links to studies where K2 helps *prevent* clotting? Don't get me wrong, I think K2 is very important, but I've not come across anything about prevention of clotting.

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Re: Vitamin K Safety and Statins

Post  CausticSymmetry on Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:20 pm

Foodjobber - There's been a discussion of this in the past, but I'll make it really easy.

The following is an animation where K2 is shown relating to calcification.

http://menaq7.com/index.php?page=vascular-animation

The following link is a list of references, the most famous is the Rotterdam study, where over 4,000 people were shown to have less calcium in the artery relative to the amount of K2 they had.

http://menaq7.com/index.php?page=references

Decalcify has the highest amount of K2 on the market, and having been taking K2 before its development, I have seen gradual improves over the vertex area.

What really sold me on K2 is knowing what the drug warfarin (coumadin) does to patients, it blocks the activity of vitamin K. I mentioned this a little earlier in this thread . It is very well documented for over 80 years on the effects of coumadin have on causing a hypercalcification in soft tissue and the arteries. So there's really little question about the importance of K2.



Last edited by CausticSymmetry on Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:38 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Vitamin K Safety and Statins

Post  CausticSymmetry on Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:37 pm

MikeGore wrote:Thanks for those replies.

I agree with what you have said about statins. I have hold him about this. The difficulty in situations like this is that, what I recommend is different to what the doctor prescribes, and it puts me in a situation where, if I insist upon him not to take the statin drug etc, and then something bad happens later on, I would probably be blamed and I would also feel responsible. Even showing articles, still wouldn't be enough, because mostly it is assumed that the doctor is always right.

I have told him that he should at least supplement with CoQ10 enzyme if he is to take a statin. I think the safest way would be to recommend taking, Vitamin K2 and D3, and then gradually reduce the statin. Did you say vitamin D + C has the same benefits to a statin? What type are we talking here D3 or any? Also would D and C in a multivitamin (like solgar which has high RDA amounts) suffice?

Co-Q10 isn't enough to compensate for what a statin does. Where I worked for a number of years, every patient that had a statin, without exception who saw us (one of the larger integrative clinics around) was told to stop taking their statins from the moment they arrive. Quite often I would the patients would tell me how much better they are feeling.

Statins cause myalgia, it literally damages the muscle. The article I wrote explains it in more detail. If this damage continues long enough it can become irreversible. Statins can even trigger autoimmune diseases in some very susceptible people.

There is no risk, whatsoever in dropping a statin drug, it's the other way around. The very best a statin can do is prevent a non-fatal heart attack in a specific age group only in 1 out of 80 people, for all age groups its gets to be much higher numbers needed to treat. Statins does not increase lifespan, they decrease it.

Statins are the leading cause of congestive heart failure. Any doctor who prescribes a statin in my opinion is not an ally in your health and well being.

Taking 5,000 IU of D3 (he may need more) is going to help a lot. For health and to protect against the statin. If he takes 2,000 to 3,000 mg of vitamin C per day, that will help him live longer--how much longer? about 5 to 6 years longer.

According to JAMA in 2007, Doctors Are The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US, Causing 225,000 Deaths.


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Re: Vitamin K Safety and Statins

Post  Foodjobber on Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:21 pm

CS - Thanks for the links. I still can't obviously see anything about the prevention of clotting though. This may just be because I missed the appropriate reference, but I tried going through them as thoroughly as I could.

I'm already familiar with the studies showing reduction of calcification and studies showing that K2 is required *for* clotting, but my concern is that very high dose K2 (way higher, I'm presuming, than was measured in the prospective cohort studies) *might* send things too far in the other direction i.e. causing overclotting.

I already take K2, but I'm wary about going too high on the dose.


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Re: Vitamin K Safety and Statins

Post  CausticSymmetry on Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:49 pm

Foodjobber - At the moment I can't cite any studies due to limited time, but I can say for certain that Vitamin K2 is extremely safe in very high doses. There are Japanese studies using 45 mg (not micrograms) and also vitamin K in either K1 or K2 have been shown clinically to prevent excess clotting (that's correct, prevent excess clotting) for those women on heavy periods.

K2 apparently helps with homeostasis. This is in stark contrast to pharmaceuticals which only break enzymes and block receptors. K2 seems to help regulate more so. Another example is that those who are on coumadin "therapy" actually find better stabilization of their blood coagulation on K2 than without it.


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Re: Vitamin K Safety and Statins

Post  Foodjobber on Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:56 pm

CausticSymmetry wrote:Foodjobber - At the moment I can't cite any studies due to limited time, but I can say for certain that Vitamin K2 is extremely safe in very high doses. There are Japanese studies using 45 mg (not micrograms) and also vitamin K in either K1 or K2 have been shown clinically to prevent excess clotting (that's correct, prevent excess clotting) for those women on heavy periods.

K2 apparently helps with homeostasis. This is in stark contrast to pharmaceuticals which only break enzymes and block receptors. K2 seems to help regulate more so. Another example is that those who are on coumadin "therapy" actually find better stabilization of their blood coagulation on K2 than without it.


I've had a bit of a dig, and found one study that did explicitly look at whether high dose (45mg) K2 MK4 led to excessive clotting. It appears that it didn't... www .ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11846334

I am also aware that a long term (3 year) high dose of MK4 didn't seem to cause any problems.

That said, it was looking at MK4 in isolation, rather than MK4 & MK7 in conjunction. MK7 is an unknown for me as most of the research I've reviewed in the past concerns MK4.

Will keep digging.

BTW: I can't post links for some reason, so I put a space between the www and the rest of the link.



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