Liquid, Topical EDTA -eradicating the calcification at the source (?)

I'm starting my experiment with LIQUID, TOPICAL EDTA -and I want to give some background and pose some questions.



EDTA is something that needs to be covered more and paid attention to, and might be something that all of us need to do for a period of, I don't know, six or eight weeks.

I don't want to cover it here because the information is pretty wide spread so I encourage everyone to google "EDTA, Calcification, but essentially it's a chelation agent. Action-Reaction actually put together a good article on the benefits of this for fighting hair loss, and I swear I'll get that up at some point and we'll make a video that shows his face.

I, like a few others, have absolutely convinced myself that the reason that you can't easily grow hair that has been long gone -no matter WHAT conventional treatment you are using- is because those follicles are ENCASED IN CALCIFICATION. Calcification is your body's natural reaction to repeated, chronic inflammation. I also think that this was somewhat common knowledge before the internet happened to explode right as propecia was gaining fame (and the propecia junkies successfully made it seem like stopping DHT is the ONLY PATH to success).

Now this is where EDTA plays a potential role here for us. EDTA has an advantage over other chelation agents because it allegedly binds to calcium deposits MUCH BETTER than other things while not damaging any tissue (as opposed to, say, folic acid -which does break down calcification but can really hurt you). It can ELIMINATE calcification of tissue.

The two problems with it are that it's slow acting and doesn't penetrate well. Well, here's the thing... the older I get, the more I think that "penetration" is sort of a crock. We aren't trying to make Transdermal Patches when we use hair loss topicals... we're trying to penetrate only 4mm. Plus, I've seen things that state that topicals actually go into the hair follicle pretty easily -and maybe some of the problem with hair loss is that LOTS OF THINGS get into the follicle pretty easily. I could be wrong about all of that, but those are just my thoughts.

As far as slow acting, I have no idea how long it would take -but the ORIGINALLY INTENDED PURPOSE of this liquid is a six week course, with small maintenance doses (for artery cleansing and heart health). As far as I know, no one in the history of the world has applied this topically yet, lol... so I have no idea if it could even function this way but it makes sense to me that something like this could be applied DIRECTLY to the tissue since we're not worried about going all the way through the body.

Ok, I received my liquid EDTA a little while ago -literally about an hour ago. As you can see by the label, it claims to be 100% EDTA. It says that the ORAL dose is 14 drops with 2 ounces of water:



...and it has a warning that this is hella concentrated, so you HAVE to mix it down when you take it:



So, of course, because of my dedication to science, I put it on my head full-strength straight away without any hesitation.


Here is the GOOD THING... it's not overly greasy, and you could possible wear it on your hair in public -so that's the first test. It spreads pretty well, too, so you could apply it at least in your thinnest areas without using too much (this is a $50 bottle, so it HAS to go a long way).

Here is the bad thing... it stung like a mutherblanker in concentrated form. I could tolerate it for about ten minutes, then I caught myself rubbing my head so much that I started sweating, and that made the whole thing worse. I added a blast of water to my head from the sink, rubbed it around, and now it's fine.

I kind of am happy that it stung, though... it tells me that this actually does something. Ok, so moving forward, I suppose that I'm going to have to mix this down.

Orally, you are supposed to mix it with water, so I'm considering that -and I'm considering trying the 14 drops to two ounces, although I'm afraid that might be too week for the scalp.

I am also considering mixing it with ethyl alcohol; however I have no idea whether this will chemically change the solution. If someone is a chemistry buff, feel free to chime in. This could potentially solve any possible penetration issues, although if the stinging was an indicator, it felt like it penetrated some.

So, once again I'm blindly tearing down a road, and I don't know what to expect! Hopefully this is a key thing that we are all missing.

So, any thoughts on this would be great. By the way... I use MYSPACE for my picture hosting now, believe it or not! Nobody else is using it, so why not. It's a good free picture gallery/storage dump.

-O.M.G.

OverMachoGrande wrote:So, of course, because of my dedication to science, I put it on my head full-strength straight away without any hesitation.

... it stung like a mutherblanker in concentrated form. I could tolerate it for about ten minutes, then I caught myself rubbing my head so much that I started sweating, and that made the whole thing worse. I added a blast of water to my head from the sink, rubbed it around, and now it's fine.

I kind of am happy that it stung, though... it tells me that this actually does something. Ok, so moving forward, I suppose that I'm going to have to mix this down.

LMAO!!!! I've had the same experience with copper peptides... Seriously though, this is interesting and thank you for posting this.

Ok, after thinking about it, this is obviously an ACID. I mean duh... it's even in the full name. So, without really knowing for sure what I'm talking about here, it seems to me that mixing this together into a weaker topical and STORING IT in solutions with a different PH might not be a good idea. Ethyl alcohol is pretty neutral, and who knows what your local water's PH is. I'm not sure if it's the best idea to keep those things together because it's going to break down the acid.

It may not be a concern... it might stay EDTA, but to be safe I think that it would be good to mix it up EVERY. TIME. I. USE. IT. I want to be sure that I'm putting EFFECTIVE, FRESH EDTA on my head.

It sounds like a pain in the ass, but I really think we only have to do this for a short time anyway (which is going to work out to be "ONE BOTTLE" for me). Here is how I'm going to be mixing this:



I'm going to play around with the dosages, but what I just tried right out of the gate was 1ml of water, 1ml of ethyl alcohol, and five drops of the liquid EDTA. It was ok... it didn't sting. That 2ml+ was a great size for covering my entire scalp. I feel that my scalp might be SLIGHTLY oily, but I'm not sure it is because I had that debacle earlier using it full strength. If it is, it's not really noticeable.

Oh, obviously I should have kept my finger on the end of the syringe when I shook it up. Whatever... it was "live TV", and like the finest actors... I only do one take.

I may try 10 drops tomorrow. The bottle says that it contains "1000 drops", so 10 drops twice a day is 50 days -and that's a really good time frame I think.

Am I going to stick with it? I don't know -that's the TRICK isn't it! I don't know if my hair is going to end up circus orange or what, either, but hopefully everything will be fine.

JosephineMarie...

Nice to meet a fellow experimenter ---consequences BE DAMNED!

-O.M.G.

May I recommend if you don't find much in results with EDTA alone you can also experiment with adding topical Doxycycline to the EDTA.

Topical Doxycycline or another Tetracycline antibiotic would treat the nanobacteria that would be released from EDTA.

OverMachoGrande wrote:JosephineMarie...

Nice to meet a fellow experimenter ---consequences BE DAMNED!

-O.M.G.

Ha ha--that's right--to hell with the consequences! You might lose on the experiment, but if you do nothing you are certain to lose, right? I kind of go into my hair experiments like a bull in a china shop, but, I might be doing something right occassionally b/c I've been shedding for 8 years and I still don't have to wear a wig or topper, although my hair is thin.

So how long do you think you might give this experiment? You were waffling there on how long you'd be willing to do this, and I'd like a committment lol! '-) (but not if you start developing clown hair from it). I mean--if one uses something like Rogaine--and I am definitely not advocating that here, it's just an example--how soon does one see hair sprouting? Three months? I think anything takes at least a minimum of two months, don't you think?

oirvblp wrote:May I recommend if you don't find much in results with EDTA alone you can also experiment with adding topical Doxycycline to the EDTA.

Topical Doxycycline or another Tetracycline antibiotic would treat the nanobacteria that would be released from EDTA.

That's actually something that I haven't even considered! I'll definitely look into it. I'm just starting a couple of google searches on it now.

JosephineMarie wrote:So how long do you think you might give this experiment? You were waffling there on how long you'd be willing to do this, and I'd like a commitment lol! '-) (but not if you start developing clown hair from it). I mean--if one uses something like Rogaine--and I am definitely not advocating that here, it's just an example--how soon does one see hair sprouting? Three months? I think anything takes at least a minimum of two months, don't you think?

I'm going to really try to keep with it for the entire contents of one bottle! One thing I've found today is damn... it's actually a really good hair styler for me. I have extremely wild hair that's always messy. I can hardly ever get it in any sort of style. For a couple of months this summer, I actually gave up and used WildRoot to just slick it back. It was actually pretty good that way, but I can usually feel it on me and it bugs me a little.

I don't know whether or not the "good styling" came about from the concentrated amount I put on this morning, though. Maybe when I put on the two dilute treatments it was simply re-wetting it, and made it style-able again. So, if I have a good, style-able hair day tomorrow, you bet I'll be more prone to stick with it!

It probably was the mixture, though, and not just a fluke. It felt really "slippery" -which I found odd because normally alkaline things are more slippery -not acids. Anyway, this made it spread really well over my scalp and through my hair, and we already know that ethyl alcohol can really control and boost hair, so hey... maybe I'll have great STYLED hair for the next few weeks!

Ok, the timeframe that I was waffling on was simply because from what I've seen about taking it orally, it's often a six week program or so. I don't know if that time frame is accurate, though. In my world, I always hear people tell me "the laser clinic said I only had to use if for six months and then come back for occasional maintenance treatments" -and that's just not true at all. So, I already have known from experience that just because people make a slick looking product, it doesn't mean they know a thing about using it!

It just so happens that using it twice a day with 10 drops would be about six or so weeks. So, that's what I'm going to shoot for. I'm hoping that I'll be able to "just tell" that something is going on -maybe my skin feels different or something, maybe a bunch of baby hairs, I don't know. You're right... even if it was super-grow hair formula and worked 100%, it'd take at least a couple of months minimum AFTER it started working to notice it because it'd take a while to get those hairs growing again. It'd take a long, long time of lasering, etc. to get the hairs back to normal, VIABLE, COUNTABLE size, too.

I used five drops this morning, and I used ten drops tonight -and the 10 drops stung a little bit. It didn't last more than about five or ten minutes, but it still stung! I don't know if it's just because I stung the hell out of myself earlier today or what, but I think ideally I'd like to do 5 drops, THREE times a day. It'll be a while before I hammer down the amount of drops. As far as frequency, most oral EDTA supplements that I've seen are meant to be taken up to five times a day, so this is influencing my decision a bit here.

I don't know how much I'll be able to tell with results, either, but one thing is certain... this is a really new angle for me. I did do some mild scalp peels over the summer and I've messed with a few other scalp treatments, but an acid that specifically targets calcification directly on my forehead is a new one! I'll try to trail blaze this though, and maybe other people can follow and we'll be able to develop a consensus of whether it's helpful or a waste of time.

I'm might start doing EDTA supplements as well just for the extra punch from the "other side" of the skin.

-O.M.G.

The Do-it-Yourself man in action. Nice video and good to have you over here OMG. One thing I know about EDTA after having using it is that is gets circulation moving and chelates metal. I never would of though about using it in hairloss but that's pretty sweet as well. I remember you were using some bromelaine topicals at one point maybe last spring. Wonder if that did anything. This is a pretty interesting topic for sure.

DM5 wrote:The Do-it-Yourself man in action. Nice video and good to have you over here OMG. One thing I know about EDTA after having using it is that is gets circulation moving and chelates metal. I never would of though about using it in hairloss but that's pretty sweet as well. I remember you were using some bromelaine topicals at one point maybe last spring. Wonder if that did anything. This is a pretty interesting topic for sure.

I got tired of the bromelain because heating it, etc. was a real pain! Now that I'm becoming desensitized to the whole preparing-your-topical-every-single-day idea and it's not as scary as it used to be, I might pick it back up -find a way to do it that I'm happy with- and go from there.

To be honest, the SYRINGES are making the big difference here in my attitude -it makes it so simple. I'll find a way to do that with the bromelain also.

I have a bunch of 6mm ones that I can use because they are too big for the squirrel!





I'm not sure what the reason is, but those plastic syringes "wear out" really quickly, and become very hard to push. The number one concern with feeding baby squirrels is asphyxiation... I don't think their breathing/swallowing mechanism is as developed as ours, and it's extremely easy to flood their lungs. So, you have to do it SLOW.

I ordered 30 3ml syringes (the recommended size), but I wanted to try the 6ml tubes, too, so I got 10 of them. Turns out the 6ml tubes are too big, too... liquid comes out fast so you run the risk of shooting fluid into their lungs.

Anyway, I'm going to put the 6ml syringes to good use for hair loss!

-O.M.G.

Here is just a quick "morning after" update...

When I took my shower this morning, my hair did wash out nice and clean, and was UNDAMAGED -thick and strong, just like before. I know some of you are like "Why are you talking about the stlying aspects, and why should we care that it washed out?"

The reason for this is because I have totally fried my hair before with experimenting like this. The last time was with formulating a bayberry seed extract topical in 2007. I put that in, woke up the next morning, and my hair was "kinky", damaged, and turned a few shades RED. I don't want that to happen -my genetics are borderline close to a "daywalker" anyway, so I don't need anything to add any ginger to my hair color, ok?!

The "kinky" part is interesting, though... it actually made my hair look BETTER for a while because the kinks sort of matted my hair together for better coverage. So, I was kind of afraid that the easly styled hair I had yesterday was because of this -and I can proudly say that it wasn't. No kinks.

All this may change with repeated exposure to it, but I think it's safe to proceed with this as a topic. I wish someone would join me on it, but we'll see how it works out first.

So, the first stage with any new and exciting topical is whether or not it's going to stab you in the back, and no, it didn't... I think it's ok.

I went with FIVE DROPS again this morning, and I could still feel a SLIGHT stinging -it was tolerable, though, and it kind of serves as a "tracer bullet" so I'll know that I've applied it in the proper areas. I think I'm going to try five drops, three times a day, and that'll make the bottle last over the two month range.

Oh, and here is me SINGING "the morning after", too, just in case you wanted to see that:
http://www.youtube.com/johnchristianjr#p/u/21/DAsWW8KUajI


-O.M.G.

OverMachoGrande wrote:I'm not sure what the reason is, but those plastic syringes "wear out" really quickly, and become very hard to push

I'm wondering if the rubber part of the syringe just needs a little salad oil put on it - I had that same problem with those syringes when dosing my cat with pills--the rubber catches on the inside of the syringe (just needs lube I think).

The baby squirrel is adorable - thanks for sharing your pics

JosephineMarie wrote:I'm wondering if the rubber part of the syringe just needs a little salad oil put on it - I had that same problem with those syringes when dosing my cat with pills--the rubber catches on the inside of the syringe (just needs lube I think).

Yeah, I was thinking that might be the problem -that's the only thing that makes sense! I'll try to be a gentleman and just politely hint that salad oil might be a much better solution than the type of lube I was thinking of.

Oh, earlier you mentioned something about a scalp massage after the treatment, and I was thinking about it. I actually have one of those cheap, $65 Violet Ray things:



I know there is science behind why something like this could theoretically be beneficial for hair and skin -I don't know if this device is actually capable of BRINGING those results, though. One thing it does do is that it does stimulate the skin.

I tried it after my EDTA treatment this morning, and it worked so-so. There is something about this mixture that does seem to impede the contact moreso than the other topicals I've used, but it still did stimulate the scalp somewhat. So, I'll try it again a few more times and see if it seems like it's doing a good job.

I'm in the habit of at least slightly massaging my scalp with any topical, but I don't do it for too long -and I could see doing a longer massage definitely could help with this.

Oh, my hair wasn't quite as gloriously styled today as it was yesterday! It was definitely better than normal, but it wasn't news anchor hair.

-O.M.G.

PS... I will cry for days when it's time to release that squirrel ("Pistachio") back out into the wild in mid-October.

Did you know EDTA is in the Nizoral 1% as the "Inactive ingredients?
It's the last item on there so its probably not a lot.

OverMachoGrande wrote:

JosephineMarie wrote:I'm wondering if the rubber part of the syringe just needs a little salad oil put on it - I had that same problem with those syringes when dosing my cat with pills--the rubber catches on the inside of the syringe (just needs lube I think).

Yeah, I was thinking that might be the problem -that's the only thing that makes sense! I'll try to be a gentleman and just politely hint that salad oil might be a much better solution than the type of lube I was thinking of.

Leave it to a guy to take a few words and run with it - nah, just kidding, there was a small, not-so-innocent set-up there by me '-) A girl's gotta have fun

Never seen the violet light device before. I have a Wahl massager with a scalp attachment - I tried that for awhile but I think though I'd rather just use my fingers to massage my scalp--I think sometimes these hair routines just get too labor intensive. One ND I talked to about my hairloss said that I should look for a "TENS" brush. There's no such item that I could find. I think someone could make some cash off of it though it they designed one since reduced blood flow is so huge in the hairloss debacle.

I know you will miss your squirrely friend when you release him--I know how it feels. When I was a teen I rescued a young squirrel that got hit by a car--saw it get bounced off a car's tire. I nursed him back to health with very thin peanut butter milk shakes. Even took the little guy to the vet because he had a tick on his head and my mom and I didn't know what it was and were concerned. It's very good of you and your wife to take care of him--you are good people

OMG,
You might want to try topical ip6 for calcification. I don't know how well it absorbs but internally it works like a charm...my scalp is soft like a babybutt after one week...
http://www.riceplex.com/IP6-Inositol-Hexaphosphate.html