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Hair Like a Fox - Book Review

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Re: Hair Like a Fox - Book Review

Post  imprisoned-radical on Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:51 am

DM5 wrote:ABC-

Congrats on your tenacity and results. You had said awhile back that hairloss can be stopped with diet and a few supplements and I totally agree. Wondering what supplements your taking in tandem. Also, when I was on my Coconut experiment taking around 3-4 grams a day I noticed alot of bloating and I gas. Do you get this and how do you deal with it? I actually stopped Coconut Oil for that but mostly because after awhile it made me really tired. I noticed as I stepped down the Coconut Oil my energy returned, but the bloating never left. When I was on the Oil, my loss halted pretty good even while I ate things like pizza, Mexican and Chinese food(never worried much about the Indian causing problems) and select desserts. It reminded me of when I was on Propecia.....my hair simply wasn't really affected. Do you eat this way all the time or do you allow yourself some happy slack?

The lauric acid in coconut oil is a potent inhibitor of both isoforms of 5AR. In clinical studies, coconut oil was as effective as saw palmetto extract at improving markers of benign prostatic hyperplasia, which is induced by 5AR activity in the prostate tissue. Some researchers believe that the anti-DHT effects of saw palmetto are due to its high lauric acid content. So maybe coconut oil acts as a natural substitute for propecia.

I posted the studies a while back. You should look through my older posts if you're interested in seeing them.

Interesting that you experienced bloating and reduction of energy while consuming coconut oil. Most alternative health communities extol coconut oil as a fat which increases metabolic rate.

I'd be interested in knowing if you get results via topical application of coconut oil. I did some research and found that the transient microflora will use lipases to break down the triglycerides, releasing the constituenct free fatty acids. If I'm not mistaken, lipid substances are well-absorbed transdermally.

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Re: Hair Like a Fox - Book Review

Post  DM5 on Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:07 am

ABC-

Interesting about the supplements. I used to take a product called TocoSorb and I got the same bloat after a couple of days. Tocosorb was pretty good with hair as well (from high beta-sis content) In regards to the bloat...... I meant that as the energy returned(as I was stepping down my dose of coconut oil) the bloat was still there. After I stopped the oil as with the Tocosorb the bloat left. Think since both inhibit DHT pretty good I wonder if I wasn't converting to estrogen(or in estromode)....... Some people can take blockers and stay high testosterone whereas others scales get tipped because of other factors. Which reminds me I was using Scalpure as well at the time, but loss didn't stop until I upped the Coconut Oil. Not to mention libido went down hill. It all reminded me of when I was on Propecia.

Speaking of Peat, I was on his site today looking at some of his research. I noticed a paper on Fish Oil and came away with some questions. I am going to probably drop my fish oil(can't use Krill, problems with Astaxanthin) if Peat is really on target in this regard. I just skimmed and wondered if most of the research he cited was mistakenly referring to rancid fish oil..... He was also talking about Linoleic acid being bad, but wondered again if the research was done on rancid. I will have to go back when I get some time and review. I am interested in his theories. Recently, I have been thinking about just going with Phosphatidylcholine for a bunch of the "neuro" benefits I thought I was getting from the fish oil. I think CS found some hair benefits as well (from phosphatidylserine) awhile back. Anyway getting way off topic now.


Last edited by DM5 on Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:22 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Hair Like a Fox - Book Review

Post  DM5 on Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:22 am

Imprisoned-

I also did notice lowered libido as I increased the Coconut Oil. I actually tried it topically and it caused instant shedding. You know Coconut Oil can lower the thyroid. I wonder if it wasn't lowering mine way too much.

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Re: Hair Like a Fox - Book Review

Post  droddy on Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:22 am

DM5 wrote:Imprisoned-

You know Coconut Oil can lower the thyroid. I wonder if it wasn't lowering mine way too much.

How so?


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Re: Hair Like a Fox - Book Review

Post  DM5 on Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:38 am

I am willing to bet that Coconut Oil(unless your taking other supplements like Tocotrienols) is what is stopping your hairloss. I think the dietary considerations pale in comparison to the anti-DHT things you are incorporating into your daily eating regimen. Wondering how much Coconut Oil you consume and if you are taking other supplements?

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Re: Hair Like a Fox - Book Review

Post  abc123 on Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:56 am

DM5 wrote:ABC-

Interesting about the supplements. I used to take a product called TocoSorb and I got the same bloat after a couple of days. Tocosorb was pretty good with hair as well (from high beta-sis content) In regards to the bloat...... I meant that as the energy returned(as I was stepping down my dose of coconut oil) the bloat was still there. After I stopped the oil as with the Tocosorb the bloat left. Think since both inhibit DHT pretty good I wonder if I wasn't converting to estrogen(or in estromode)....... Some people can take blockers and stay high testosterone whereas others scales get tipped because of other factors. Which reminds me I was using Scalpure as well at the time, but loss didn't stop until I upped the Coconut Oil. Not to mention libido went down hill. It all reminded me of when I was on Propecia.

Speaking of Peat, I was on his site today looking at some of his research. I noticed a paper on Fish Oil and came away with some questions. I am going to probably drop my fish oil(can't use Krill, problems with Astaxanthin) if Peat is really on target in this regard. I just skimmed and wondered if most of the research he cited was mistakenly referring to rancid fish oil..... He was also talking about Linoleic acid being bad, but wondered again if the research was done on rancid. I will have to go back when I get some time and review. I am interested in his theories. Recently, I have been thinking about just going with Phosphatidylcholine for a bunch of the "neuro" benefits I thought I was getting from the fish oil. I think CS found some hair benefits as well (from phosphatidylserine) awhile back. Anyway getting way off topic now.

I used to take TocoSorb too but I switched recently to this http://www.iherb.com/A-C-Grace-Company-Unique-E-120-Softgels/8294?at=0 . I do not think tocotrienols are beneficial at all as they decrease the livers ability to produce cholesterol.

I have not looked at all of peat's references but when he is speaking he does mean normal fish oil, not rancid. Here is some more reading:

http://chriskresser.com/when-it-comes-to-fish-oil-more-is-not-better
http://www.westonaprice.org/know-your-fats/precious-yet-perilous

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Re: Hair Like a Fox - Book Review

Post  DM5 on Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:25 am

abc123 wrote:
DM5 wrote:ABC-

Interesting about the supplements. I used to take a product called TocoSorb and I got the same bloat after a couple of days. Tocosorb was pretty good with hair as well (from high beta-sis content) In regards to the bloat...... I meant that as the energy returned(as I was stepping down my dose of coconut oil) the bloat was still there. After I stopped the oil as with the Tocosorb the bloat left. Think since both inhibit DHT pretty good I wonder if I wasn't converting to estrogen(or in estromode)....... Some people can take blockers and stay high testosterone whereas others scales get tipped because of other factors. Which reminds me I was using Scalpure as well at the time, but loss didn't stop until I upped the Coconut Oil. Not to mention libido went down hill. It all reminded me of when I was on Propecia.

Speaking of Peat, I was on his site today looking at some of his research. I noticed a paper on Fish Oil and came away with some questions. I am going to probably drop my fish oil(can't use Krill, problems with Astaxanthin) if Peat is really on target in this regard. I just skimmed and wondered if most of the research he cited was mistakenly referring to rancid fish oil..... He was also talking about Linoleic acid being bad, but wondered again if the research was done on rancid. I will have to go back when I get some time and review. I am interested in his theories. Recently, I have been thinking about just going with Phosphatidylcholine for a bunch of the "neuro" benefits I thought I was getting from the fish oil. I think CS found some hair benefits as well (from phosphatidylserine) awhile back. Anyway getting way off topic now.

I used to take TocoSorb too but I switched recently to this http://www.iherb.com/A-C-Grace-Company-Unique-E-120-Softgels/8294?at=0 . I do not think tocotrienols are beneficial at all as they decrease the livers ability to produce cholesterol.

I have not looked at all of peat's references but when he is speaking he does mean normal fish oil, not rancid. Here is some more reading:

http://chriskresser.com/when-it-comes-to-fish-oil-more-is-not-better
http://www.westonaprice.org/know-your-fats/precious-yet-perilous

Thanks for the links. He also talked about Linoleic acid being bad. That is in grass-fed beef, amongst alot of the products people use for hairloss(emu oil, etc). Do you have any info on that?

In regards to Beta-Sitosterol , it is a well-known DHT blocker. Beta-sitosterol works by decreasing the absorption of cholesterol in the intestine and reducing the amount of DHT in the body. Its concentration is pretty high in Saw Palmetto amongst other herbs which accounts for many of the hairloss testimonials. Its concentration is also pretty high in many tocotrienol products. It works differently than pharmaceuticals like Propecia, but nonetheless exerts its effects on hair and prostate by lowering concentrations of DHT in the body. Beta-Sitosterol

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Re: Hair Like a Fox - Book Review

Post  bh2o on Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:21 pm

I read the short version that was out earlier this year. I like Peat's work and enjoyed reading Roddy's blog.

That said, I tried a similar diet and it just was not for me. Diet is without a doubt a very important factor for overall health, and without a proper diet supplements are a waste for the most part. I might revisit this diet once I get my head together, as right now any strict diet will just make things worse I think in my case. My respect to those that can actually do the diet though.

ABC- you mention that tocotrienols are not beneficial because they reduce cholesterol production in the liver. Do you have some literature on that? I was actually going to take A.C. Grace tocotrienols in the evening apart from my tocopherols in the morning.

Also, what form of K do you take? I take MK7. Everything that I read of Activator X is that it is supposedly MK4.

Blue Ice makes a product- Fermented Skate Liver Oil which is supposedly higher in Vitamins D and E than FCLO. It also has K (activator X, I presume) and A. Additionally it has squalene, and small amounts of CoQ10 and some other stuff. Of course it has PUFA's so that is a deal breaker for me, after having read Peat's arguments agaist it when you brought PUFA to my attention. Otherwise a very good product IMO. I still might try it once my vitamins D,A,E,K run out, and see how the added PUFA affects me.

This stuff:

http://www.building-health.com/blue-ice%E2%84%A2-fermented-skate-liver-oil-non-gelatin-capsules-120-p-72.html

One serving* provides approximately: Vitamin A 3500 IU's; Vitamin D 600 IU's; EPA 120+ mg; DHA 130+ mg. Total Omega-3, Omega-6, Omega-7, Omega-9, Vitamin E, and Vitamin K are present, but not currently measured. Also present are Alkoxyglycerols, Squalene, Chontroitin, and Price Factor X.


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Re: Hair Like a Fox - Book Review

Post  droddy on Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:59 pm

The word "strict" keep getting tossed around, but I just had steak, sugar, and milk for breakfast. It really isn't strict at all.

Last night I had a pint of ice cream.

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Re: Hair Like a Fox - Book Review

Post  bh2o on Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:39 pm

droddy wrote:The word "strict" keep getting tossed around, but I just had steak, sugar, and milk for breakfast. It really isn't strict at all.

Last night I had a pint of ice cream.

Sorry dude. I'm just getting things mixed up, perhaps got the preview confused with stuff that I read on your blog like oysters, raw meat, stuff like that. But to be clear when I say strict I use it to describe the version of the diet that I tried, which was very limited, but should not speak for your work. I still eat gelatin by the way--love the stuff. Good luck.

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Re: Hair Like a Fox - Book Review

Post  droddy on Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:44 pm

bh2o wrote:
droddy wrote:The word "strict" keep getting tossed around, but I just had steak, sugar, and milk for breakfast. It really isn't strict at all.

Last night I had a pint of ice cream.

Sorry dude. I'm just getting things mixed up, perhaps got the preview confused with stuff that I read on your blog like oysters, raw meat, stuff like that. But to be clear when I say strict I use it to describe the version of the diet that I tried, which was very limited, but should not speak for your work. I still eat gelatin by the way--love the stuff. Good luck.

It's cool.

I've parted ways with my interest in raw food. I don't think it's necessary.

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Re: Hair Like a Fox - Book Review

Post  tooyoung on Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:59 pm

Danny - What are you supplementing at the moment?

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Re: Hair Like a Fox - Book Review

Post  FATE on Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:07 pm

Just brought 4kg of Nutiva Organic Extra Virgin Coconut Oil, going to test the hair loss halting properties of it internally daily over 3 months...

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Re: Hair Like a Fox - Book Review

Post  imprisoned-radical on Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:20 pm

FATE? wrote:Just brought 4kg of Nutiva Organic Extra Virgin Coconut Oil, going to test the hair loss halting properties of it internally daily over 3 months...

How much did the 4kg cost?

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Re: Hair Like a Fox - Book Review

Post  Red beard on Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:59 pm

FATE? wrote:Just brought 4kg of Nutiva Organic Extra Virgin Coconut Oil, going to test the hair loss halting properties of it internally daily over 3 months...

Hopefully it was refined.

That could be the problem with the people experiencing bloating. Was it refined or unrefined?

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Re: Hair Like a Fox - Book Review

Post  j87x on Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:13 pm

The diet disregards certain things, for instance coffee is on the pro hair list, yet coffee raises cortisol. Even if sugar does lower cortisol, it can cause inflammation. My head always itches after eating sugar. I wonder what his rationale for nuts being bad, but sugar being good is, considering that it goes against the paleo diet, hunters/gatherers finding nuts but not sugar (honey and fruit in small quantities if any).

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Re: Hair Like a Fox - Book Review

Post  Red beard on Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:30 pm

j87x wrote:The diet disregards certain things, for instance coffee is on the pro hair list, yet coffee raises cortisol. Even if sugar does lower cortisol, it can cause inflammation. My head always itches after eating sugar. I wonder what his rationale for nuts being bad, but sugar being good is, considering that it goes against the paleo diet, hunters/gatherers finding nuts but not sugar (honey and fruit in small quantities if any).

Because nuts are one of the highest sources of PUFA out there. They also contain antinutriants, they are seeds after all. Also about the whole evolution thing. Todays nuts are made edible by science. In the wild there would be no such thing as almonds, cashews, peanuts, etc. The nuts that are edible and maybe nutritious are the ones very few paleo followers would eat like acorns and chestnuts. I highly doubt paleo man would be scooping up lots of nuts, maybe a few at acertain time a year but fruit (sugar) would be much more available in most regains.

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Re: Hair Like a Fox - Book Review

Post  droddy on Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:36 pm

tooyoung wrote:Danny - What are you supplementing at the moment?

100 IU of vitamin E daily, and 1-2000 IU of vitamin D3, both applied topically.

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Re: Hair Like a Fox - Book Review

Post  hapyman on Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:40 pm

@DM5 - In regards to Peat talking about PUFAs, my understanding was that even in non-rancid form they can easily turn rancid in the body during the digestion process. The only thing to protect ingesting non-rancid PUFAs is taking it with enough vitamin E. I forget the exact amount he states is protective though.

==================

@droddy - I am not so sure you should give up on all raw foods. First is the large amounts of acrylamide found in most cooked foods, even those that are baked. Also the loss of vitamins could be an issue. For example Vitamin C is completely lost with cooking. Obviously supplementation could help here.

==================

As far as this diet is concerned I like a lot about what it is but I really can't believe in any sort of pasteurized dairy products. Pasteurized milk absolutely kills me. Unfortunately I have not been able to try any sort of raw milk yet but I have heard its amazing and doesn't cause problems unless the digestive tract is severely compromised. However I have been taking a raw whey concentrate from grass fed cows and I really thrive off of that.

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Re: Hair Like a Fox - Book Review

Post  droddy on Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:43 pm

j87x wrote:The diet disregards certain things, for instance coffee is on the pro hair list, yet coffee raises cortisol.

Coffee can lower blood sugar thus increasing stress hormones. Solution: eat it with sugar.

Coffee is rich in B1 and magnesium and can increase CO2, decreasing serotonin.

j87x wrote:Even if sugar does lower cortisol, it can cause inflammation. My head always itches after eating sugar.

You're eating plain white sugar?

If so, there is something wrong with YOU, not the sugar. Sugar can increase the metabolic rate. Increasing the metabolic rate dramatically increases the need for specific vitamins and minerals. If you increase the metabolic rate and are low on vitamin A for example, you would experience dandruff/shedding shortly after consuming sugar.

j87x wrote:I wonder what his rationale for nuts being bad, but sugar being good is, considering that it goes against the paleo diet, hunters/gatherers finding nuts but not sugar (honey and fruit in small quantities if any).

I go over all of this on my website and youtube videos.

I'm not interested in what paleo man ate. I'm interested in a way of eating to reverse hair loss.

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Re: Hair Like a Fox - Book Review

Post  CausticSymmetry on Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:56 pm

It's best to consume both tocotrienols and tocopherols. The delta-tocotrienol is a HMG CoA reductase inhibitor, however on monocyte-endothelial cell adhesion, it is not necessarily going to interfere with steroid hormone synthesis.

In fact, according to a patent, tocotrienols enhance the production of testosterone.

Moreover, if one were to eat fried food or any refined polyunsaturate fatty acids, tocotrienols is good production and is significantly more powerful than tocopherol fractions.

And if not by supplementation, or by coconut oil, we can talk to the palm, as in palm oil.

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Re: Hair Like a Fox - Book Review

Post  bh2o on Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:12 pm

CausticSymmetry- what is a good daily dose of tocotrienol?

Also, and not to derail this thread, can you share your thoughts real quick on fermented skate liver oil?


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Re: Hair Like a Fox - Book Review

Post  bh2o on Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:20 pm

Red beard wrote:
j87x wrote:The diet disregards certain things, for instance coffee is on the pro hair list, yet coffee raises cortisol. Even if sugar does lower cortisol, it can cause inflammation. My head always itches after eating sugar. I wonder what his rationale for nuts being bad, but sugar being good is, considering that it goes against the paleo diet, hunters/gatherers finding nuts but not sugar (honey and fruit in small quantities if any).

Because nuts are one of the highest sources of PUFA out there. They also contain antinutriants, they are seeds after all. Also about the whole evolution thing. Todays nuts are made edible by science. In the wild there would be no such thing as almonds, cashews, peanuts, etc. The nuts that are edible and maybe nutritious are the ones very few paleo followers would eat like acorns and chestnuts. I highly doubt paleo man would be scooping up lots of nuts, maybe a few at acertain time a year but fruit (sugar) would be much more available in most regains.

Not even chestnuts I take it.


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Re: Hair Like a Fox - Book Review

Post  CausticSymmetry on Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:49 pm

bh2o wrote:CausticSymmetry- what is a good daily dose of tocotrienol?

Also, and not to derail this thread, can you share your thoughts real quick on fermented skate liver oil?


For tocotrienols, this is a good example, it is based on the patent for hair loss.

http://www.iherb.com/Jarrow-Formulas-Toco-Sorb-Mixed-Tocotrienols-and-Vitamin-E-60-Softgels/137?at=hil335

Skate liver oil is rich in fat soluble nutrients, which I think are quite essential for hair growth, especially Vitamins A and D.

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Re: Hair Like a Fox - Book Review

Post  bh2o on Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:23 pm

Thanks Caustic.

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Re: Hair Like a Fox - Book Review

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