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AHK-Cu by itself ... my experience so far

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Re: AHK-Cu by itself ... my experience so far

Post  hammer2012 on Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:43 am

im not going no where, i think that this site is infact great.

However i will not discuss this topic anymore as the authorities will be involved in due course. CASE CLOSED.

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Re: AHK-Cu by itself ... my experience so far

Post  virtua_ on Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:47 am

hammer2012 wrote:the only person who owes people answers is finfighter. i know you and many other followers have been promptly told to write false testimonials. paypal also will be notified right after easter break due to illegal activities taking place, any accounts involved in the trade of illegal and prescription chemicals will be immediately frozen.

Wow...

One: No, I haven't been told to write testimonials about anything. Why would I bother, when I had to pay for the product? What would be in it for me?

Two: You seem to have some pretty lofty thoughts about your own power and how this works? PayPal are going to freeze accounts based on people buying chemicals that are free to order and get compounded from any pharmacy? Thankfully most states involved in this are not the dictatorships you seem to think they are...!

Agree with Paradox, if you have nothing more to contribute and are not going to answer any of our questions then I guess there's no need for further posts from you. We received the message, now we may do with it as we see fit! Smile

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Well

Post  bocor on Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:43 am

I would guess hammer is a cop or correctional officer of some type.Typical control freak....sad really that i share the gene pool with people like him Just another abused child looking for attention playing god,implementing the "rule of law" LOL u silly control freak why dont you go find some ants to burn under the magnifying glass im sure youll get your fix that way without having to pay for internet in the process...

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Re: AHK-Cu by itself ... my experience so far

Post  hellwig on Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:47 am

Non FDA approved chemicals are bad, umkay!

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Re: AHK-Cu by itself ... my experience so far

Post  JZ on Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:54 pm

Yeah, I'm pretty sure we all get it. Thanks? Meanwhile, this thread has nothing to do with non-FDA approved chemicals.

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Re: AHK-Cu by itself ... my experience so far

Post  JZ on Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:52 pm

hey guys, i'd love to add this to rejuve!

I think that mixture is a good idea for hair, but maybe wouldn't it on your face. Nidhogge thought AHK-Cu might be a little strong for the face, and having tried it like that, maybe it is. I'm not sure.

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Re: AHK-Cu by itself ... my experience so far

Post  j87x on Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:16 pm

How much is it?

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Re: AHK-Cu by itself ... my experience so far

Post  JZ on Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:47 am

I paid $30/gram. Estimate 20-24 grams/year. Honestly though, I don't know where you can buy it now. The guy I bought it from (Finfighter) was planning to sell it through the Raxuschem website, but that's not operating right now. Probably it will be soon.

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Re: AHK-Cu by itself ... my experience so far

Post  nidhogge on Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:15 am

Yea, I'm not to sure about how I feel about using AHK-Cu for the face. If you do add it to RejuvePlex, make that a RejuvePlex for your scalp-only, then have one with GHK-Cu for face-only.

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Re: AHK-Cu by itself ... my experience so far

Post  LawOfThelema on Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:15 am

the law and order retard hammer managed to spam this forum too? lol. ZOMG THE GUBBERMINT DIDNT APPROVE OF SOMETHING THEREFORE ITS EVIL

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Re: AHK-Cu by itself ... my experience so far

Post  Paradox on Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:11 pm

JZ,

Do you have an update on the AHK-Cu? It's been a few months now. Does someone have a good source?

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Re: AHK-Cu by itself ... my experience so far

Post  LawOfThelema on Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:13 pm

mpbtreatments.com sells it for cheaper than 30/g if you buy in the 10-20 g range

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Re: AHK-Cu by itself ... my experience so far

Post  JZ on Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:54 pm

I don't know of any other source right now. 10-20 g is probably the minimum you'd want to buy anyway, so that sounds like a decent price.

As for my experience, I'd like a bit more time to be sure, but when I look in the mirror right now I seem to be regrowing the hair in my temples. To be really precise, my left temple is covered with what appear to be growing terminal (dark) hairs, and when i say covered, I mean down to a NW0 level. It's definitely cosmetically significant: the skin there no longer looks bald...more like fuzzy. But the hairs are only 1/4" long and, who know, maybe they'll all fall out, or stop growing. My right temple is mostly covered with hair as well, but these hairs are so fine they're almost invisible, although they're about 3/4" long.

The left temple especially has just developed over the last couple weeks. Honestly, it literally just started growing terminal hair...the vellus hairs became terminal, and some new terminal hairs appeared to emerge from the skin as well. Odd, because before this it was completely bald-looking, whereas the right temple looked about the same as it does now.

Is AHK the reason? It's probably part of it. However, I should like to say the a few isolated hairs became terminal exactly 7 days after I started doing the brushing, etc. (as described on this site by Ferox and others), and I think this is a major factor.

I read that AHK by itself helps encourage blood vessel formation, and it has other benefits. But I think that the brushing, etc., really helps scalp blood flow begin again, and this probably encourages blood vessel formation even more. In other words, I think AHK helps prep the scalp, but the brushing really makes the terminal hair growth start.

I don't want to make predictions, but, yes, at this particular moment, my scalp is noticeably growing hair in places that didn't have it a month ago. That must mean something.


Last edited by JZ on Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:07 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: AHK-Cu by itself ... my experience so far

Post  JZ on Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:01 pm

nidhogge wrote:Yea, I'm not to sure about how I feel about using AHK-Cu for the face. If you do add it to RejuvePlex, make that a RejuvePlex for your scalp-only, then have one with GHK-Cu for face-only.

Nid, do you have a source that says GHK-Cu is milder on the face than AHK-Cu? I'm not disagreeing with you...in fact, I get the same impression. But I can't remember reading it in any definitive place. It was more like vague, ambiguous comments that Dr. Pickart made. I'd really like to find out.

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Re: AHK-Cu by itself ... my experience so far

Post  Paradox on Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:07 am

JZ wrote:I don't know of any other source right now. 10-20 g is probably the minimum you'd want to buy anyway, so that sounds like a decent price.

As for my experience, I'd like a bit more time to be sure, but when I look in the mirror right now I seem to be regrowing the hair in my temples. To be really precise, my left temple is covered with what appear to be growing terminal (dark) hairs, and when i say covered, I mean down to a NW0 level. It's definitely cosmetically significant: the skin there no longer looks bald...more like fuzzy. But the hairs are only 1/4" long and, who know, maybe they'll all fall out, or stop growing. My right temple is mostly covered with hair as well, but these hairs are so fine they're almost invisible, although they're about 3/4" long.

The left temple especially has just developed over the last couple weeks. Honestly, it literally just started growing terminal hair...the vellus hairs became terminal, and some new terminal hairs appeared to emerge from the skin as well. Odd, because before this it was completely bald-looking, whereas the right temple looked about the same as it does now.

Is AHK the reason? It's probably part of it. However, I should like to say the a few isolated hairs became terminal exactly 7 days after I started doing the brushing, etc. (as described on this site by Ferox and others), and I think this is a major factor.

I read that AHK by itself helps encourage blood vessel formation, and it has other benefits. But I think that the brushing, etc., really helps scalp blood flow begin again, and this probably encourages blood vessel formation even more. In other words, I think AHK helps prep the scalp, but the brushing really makes the terminal hair growth start.

I don't want to make predictions, but, yes, at this particular moment, my scalp is noticeably growing hair in places that didn't have it a month ago. That must mean something.

Thanks for the update. just to be clear, you're not using an AA right, just the Cu and brushing?

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Re: AHK-Cu by itself ... my experience so far

Post  JZ on Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:47 am

Along with occasional emu oil and cinnamon leaf oil and nutrional supplements, yup, that's all. No AAs.

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Re: AHK-Cu by itself ... my experience so far

Post  israelite on Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:20 pm

i'm on every hairloss prodouct known to man. when i added ahk to my regimen i began to see hairs BELOW my juvenile hairline

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Re: AHK-Cu by itself ... my experience so far

Post  israelite on Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:27 pm

juvenile hairline

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Re: AHK-Cu by itself ... my experience so far

Post  The_Mentalist on Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:11 pm

Jz

" 1 mg AHK-Cu to 100 mL liquid = 1% solution" You mean 1g?

What ratio did you use for the solution? I have 70% Ethyl Alcohol, and will try to find Propylene Glycol (what % conc. is good?). Do you think 2/3 alc. and 1/3 PG for the ahk solution will be good?


Can I just use minox solution instead of PG in the vehicle?

Does anyone know what drug stoes I can get PG from? I am talking about here in the US

Also jz,
Your update please?

Anyone, can respond, please
Thx

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Re: AHK-Cu by itself ... my experience so far

Post  JZ on Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:45 pm

Sorry! Yes, 1 g to 100 mL = 1% solution.

Lately, out of pure laziness, I've just used pure PG as the liquid. Earlier, I used a mixture of PG + water, with slightly more water than PG.

I bought a bottle of PG USP, which means >98% purity.

Yes, 2/3 ethanol to 1/3 PG sounds about ideal.

I think the idea is to have both alcohol (or water), which is absorbed quickly, and PG, which is absorbed slowly. I have read of numerous different formulas; usually the fraction of PG is about 1/5 to 1/3.

I can't think of any reason not to mix AHK with minox solution. Other people have done this. I have not heard that they would cross-react or anything.

At the end of the day, I believe that AHK-Cu is absorbed quite easily. So long as the solution doesn't irritate your skin or destablize the AHK-Cu, it should be okay.

I special-ordered the PG at a common drug store (pharmacy) chain (London Drugs). This was easy and it arrived in a couple days. I'm not in the US, but hopefully you could do the same at any major American drug store.

Okay, update. My new hairs (on my temples) are growing very slowly. Very, very slowly. They are also thinner than the surrounding hairs. However, they are now almost as long (1/2") as the surrounding hairs (3/4").

The higher (closer to crown) new hairs have grown much faster than the lower (closer to forehead) ones. The lowest hairs, at the NW0 line, have hardly grown at all since they first appeared.

For some strange reason, the hairs in my right temple, which originally had no hair at all, appeared very suddenly, fully pigmented, and have almost overtaken the hairs in my left temple. There were a few hairs in my left temple before this, but these remain unpigmented and no longer than several months ago...however, they have been joined by many new unpigmented hairs...which have reached this same length but no longer.
NOTE:In my post a few months ago, I said it was my left temple that suddenly started growing hair. It was actually the right. Stupid mirrors.


So what does it all look like? I guess it looks like I have maybe a NW 1.5 hairline...except with thin enough hair in the temples that you can see the skin through it. Yes, I have terminal hairs at the NW 0 line, but these are still too small to make a cosmetic difference. Also, because some of the temple hairs are less pigmented, you can't see them from a distance, so I look balder from farther away. But, on the whole, yeah, probably a NW 1.5 with thinnish hair. The slow growth is a little frustrating, but considering that I was NW 2-3 three months ago, I gotta feel pretty thankful about the whole thing.


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Re: AHK-Cu by itself ... my experience so far

Post  The_Mentalist on Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:09 pm

I think I am also seeing tiny hair on my temples and three straggling terminal hair on my forhead with not much hairline I have left. I think they came because I started combing real hard for the past 3/4 months when I started reading these forums. You seem to be doing the same. So, I am thinking, the hair on temples etc. we see is due to combing, and not by ahk? I am unsure though, because I started doing a lot of stuff lately.

No Pg luck in my stores and no they dont make special order s for you here. I think I will just try glycerin to see if its not too sticky. However, I am thinking of ahk prepared solution from evo-they say they might have it soon for sale.

Anyway, please keep us updated if you feel ahk is working and to what degree. I think you would have instinct what might be working better than others

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Re: AHK-Cu by itself ... my experience so far

Post  sc871 on Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:38 am

JZ wrote:

Yes, 2/3 ethanol to 1/3 PG sounds about ideal.

I think the idea is to have both alcohol (or water), which is absorbed quickly, and PG, which is absorbed slowly. I have read of numerous different formulas; usually the fraction of PG is about 1/5 to 1/3.

I can't think of any reason not to mix AHK with minox solution. Other people have done this. I have not heard that they would cross-react or anything.



That is ton of ethanol, which is not good for the skin, where did you come up with that high amount of ethanol?

I have heard of a number of people mixing ahk in minox solution, never heard anything direct about them cross reacting but a number of people suggest not to combine the two as they thought it was less efecttive .

The Mentalist, here is a link to some PG http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Depot-PROPYLENE-GLYCOL-PINT-Propylene-Glycol/dp/B005F5KYM4/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1343151543&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=prolyene+glycol

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Re: AHK-Cu by itself ... my experience so far

Post  JZ on Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:14 am

That is ton of ethanol, which is not good for the skin, where did you come up with that high amount of ethanol?
It is indeed a lot of ethanol, and I agree that ethanol is probably not great for the skin. Neither is PG, for that matter (it's considered a skin irritant), though I personally don't have a reaction to it. Whether the harshness of ethanol or PG will make a long-term difference probably depends on the person.

In some of the original AHK-Cu studies, they gave suggested formulas for the solution. I got this information second-hand; I haven't read the original studies. I could try to find them though.

Anyway, here's what I wrote down.
Preparation A:
Peptide-Copper Complex 1.0% (w/w)
Hydroxy Ethyl Cellulose 3.0% (w/w)
Propylene Glycol 20.0% (w/w)
Nonoxynol-9 3.0% (w/w)
Benzyl Alcohol 2.0% (w/w)
Aqueous Phosphate Buffer (0.2N)
71.0% (w/w)

Preparation B:
Peptide-Copper Complex 1.0% (w/w)
Nonoxynol-9 3.0% (w/w)
Ethyl Alcohol 96.0% (w/w)

Preparation C:
Peptide-Copper Complex 5.0% (w/w)
Ethyl Alcohol 47.5% (w/w)
Isopropyl Alcohol 4.0% (w/w)
Propylene Glycol 20.0% (w/w)
Lanoeth-4 1.0% (w/w)
Water 27.5% (w/w)

Preparation D:
Peptide-Copper Complex 5.0% (w/w)
Sterile Water 95.0% (w/w)

Preparation E:
Peptide-Copper Complex 2.5% (w/w)
Hydroxypropyl Cellulose 2.0% (w/w)
Glycerine 20.0% (w/w)
Nonoxynol-9 3.0% (w/w)
Sterile Water 72.5% (w/w)

Preparation F:
Peptide-Copper Complex 0.5% (w/w)
Sterile Water 16.5% (w/w)
Propylene Glycol 50.0% (w/w)
Ethanol 30.0% (w/w)
Nonoxynol-9 3.0% (w/w)

Preparation G:
Peptide-Copper Complex 5.0% (w/w)
Sterile Water 10.0% (w/w)
Hydroxypropyl Cellulose 2.0% (w/w)
Propylene Glycol 30.0% (w/w)
Ethanol 50.0% (w/w)
Nonoxynol-9 3.0% (w/w)

My point is that the exact proportions of liquids is flexible. There is typically a lot of ethanol, but could use water instead if you preferred. I think you could probably use only water and AHK-Cu; it just wouldn't have as long a shelf-life. Ethanol is perhaps absorbed faster through the skin, but, in the long-term, I'm not sure how much it matters.

I have heard of a number of people mixing ahk in minox solution, never heard anything direct about them cross reacting but a number of people suggest not to combine the two as they thought it was less efecttive .
I've read that minox interferes with collagen synthesis, which is what AHK helps, so I guess they might conflict in this way. On the other hand, Dr. Pickart (AHK inventor) says:
Hideo Uno, the scientist who wrote the Monograph on Minoxidil for for the UpJohn company when Rogaine first came out, did extensive testing on both minoxidil and copper peptide. He said the two worked well together. Minoxidil was best at growing new small, thin hairs and copper peptides were best at thickening the hair.

So, I am thinking, the hair on temples etc. we see is due to combing, and not by ahk? I am unsure though, because I started doing a lot of stuff lately.
Yeah, that's the question. I used AHK for a while before I started brushing, and I did get lots of new vellus hairs. However, these did not go terminal until after I started brushing. Then they went terminal fast (7 days). At least, some of them did.

AHK is supposed to do a couple things. It reverses fibrosis of hair follicles that haven't had hair in a long time. Possibly, fibrosis could be a factor that prevents hair regrowth even if you're brushing, so AHK might be a necessary step before brushing works. Also, AHK helps the formation of capillaries to hair follicles, a necessary step for terminal hairs.

Now, brushing also helps the formation of capillaries to hair follicles, and probably does it a lot faster.

My feeling is this: AHK helps produce new vellus hairs easily, and, by helping new capillaries form, will eventually make these hairs go terminal. But it'll take a long time, whereas brushing makes it happen a lot faster. On the other hand, I think brushing might take longer to work if the follicles and surrounding tissue haven't been "prepped" by AHK.

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Re: AHK-Cu by itself ... my experience so far

Post  sc871 on Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:36 pm

JZ wrote:
That is ton of ethanol, which is not good for the skin, where did you come up with that high amount of ethanol?
It is indeed a lot of ethanol, and I agree that ethanol is probably not great for the skin. Neither is PG, for that matter (it's considered a skin irritant), though I personally don't have a reaction to it. Whether the harshness of ethanol or PG will make a long-term difference probably depends on the person.

In some of the original AHK-Cu studies, they gave suggested formulas for the solution. I got this information second-hand; I haven't read the original studies. I could try to find them though.

Anyway, here's what I wrote down.
Preparation A:
Peptide-Copper Complex 1.0% (w/w)
Hydroxy Ethyl Cellulose 3.0% (w/w)
Propylene Glycol 20.0% (w/w)
Nonoxynol-9 3.0% (w/w)
Benzyl Alcohol 2.0% (w/w)
Aqueous Phosphate Buffer (0.2N)
71.0% (w/w)

Preparation B:
Peptide-Copper Complex 1.0% (w/w)
Nonoxynol-9 3.0% (w/w)
Ethyl Alcohol 96.0% (w/w)

Preparation C:
Peptide-Copper Complex 5.0% (w/w)
Ethyl Alcohol 47.5% (w/w)
Isopropyl Alcohol 4.0% (w/w)
Propylene Glycol 20.0% (w/w)
Lanoeth-4 1.0% (w/w)
Water 27.5% (w/w)

Preparation D:
Peptide-Copper Complex 5.0% (w/w)
Sterile Water 95.0% (w/w)

Preparation E:
Peptide-Copper Complex 2.5% (w/w)
Hydroxypropyl Cellulose 2.0% (w/w)
Glycerine 20.0% (w/w)
Nonoxynol-9 3.0% (w/w)
Sterile Water 72.5% (w/w)

Preparation F:
Peptide-Copper Complex 0.5% (w/w)
Sterile Water 16.5% (w/w)
Propylene Glycol 50.0% (w/w)
Ethanol 30.0% (w/w)
Nonoxynol-9 3.0% (w/w)

Preparation G:
Peptide-Copper Complex 5.0% (w/w)
Sterile Water 10.0% (w/w)
Hydroxypropyl Cellulose 2.0% (w/w)
Propylene Glycol 30.0% (w/w)
Ethanol 50.0% (w/w)
Nonoxynol-9 3.0% (w/w)

My point is that the exact proportions of liquids is flexible. There is typically a lot of ethanol, but could use water instead if you preferred. I think you could probably use only water and AHK-Cu; it just wouldn't have as long a shelf-life. Ethanol is perhaps absorbed faster through the skin, but, in the long-term, I'm not sure how much it matters.

I have heard of a number of people mixing ahk in minox solution, never heard anything direct about them cross reacting but a number of people suggest not to combine the two as they thought it was less efecttive .
I've read that minox interferes with collagen synthesis, which is what AHK helps, so I guess they might conflict in this way. On the other hand, Dr. Pickart (AHK inventor) says:
Hideo Uno, the scientist who wrote the Monograph on Minoxidil for for the UpJohn company when Rogaine first came out, did extensive testing on both minoxidil and copper peptide. He said the two worked well together. Minoxidil was best at growing new small, thin hairs and copper peptides were best at thickening the hair.

So, I am thinking, the hair on temples etc. we see is due to combing, and not by ahk? I am unsure though, because I started doing a lot of stuff lately.
Yeah, that's the question. I used AHK for a while before I started brushing, and I did get lots of new vellus hairs. However, these did not go terminal until after I started brushing. Then they went terminal fast (7 days). At least, some of them did.

AHK is supposed to do a couple things. It reverses fibrosis of hair follicles that haven't had hair in a long time. Possibly, fibrosis could be a factor that prevents hair regrowth even if you're brushing, so AHK might be a necessary step before brushing works. Also, AHK helps the formation of capillaries to hair follicles, a necessary step for terminal hairs.

Now, brushing also helps the formation of capillaries to hair follicles, and probably does it a lot faster.

My feeling is this: AHK helps produce new vellus hairs easily, and, by helping new capillaries form, will eventually make these hairs go terminal. But it'll take a long time, whereas brushing makes it happen a lot faster. On the other hand, I think brushing might take longer to work if the follicles and surrounding tissue haven't been "prepped" by AHK.

JZ, What kind of brush are you using, how long and how often?


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Re: AHK-Cu by itself ... my experience so far

Post  hairdecent on Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:22 pm

how do you think scalp derma-needling (wounding) with AHK compares to brushing with AHK, for forming new capillaries?

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Re: AHK-Cu by itself ... my experience so far

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