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injury/bald scalp/hair re-growth. explain.

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Re: injury/bald scalp/hair re-growth. explain.

Post  AL123 on Thu May 31, 2012 4:31 am

SlowMoe wrote:How about we get enough of this stuff for a 12 month trial hmmmm.
didn't really get it. can you re-phrase your question?

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Re: injury/bald scalp/hair re-growth. explain.

Post  elan164 on Thu May 31, 2012 5:12 am

AL123 wrote:

the links you provided confirms everything i've stated already. though i arrived at the conclusions with my own understanding.
so, adipose tissue, cushioning effect, skull expands (DHT causes bone growth), results in tight scalp, but if there is enough cushioning by adipose tissue, hair growth will sustain.

Yeah i agree completely with you, it's just a matter of finding a way to generate brown fat in the scalp. Emu oil, fish oil under a green house wrap is what im trying right now. I think its hard to find info on how to do that because it would be a huge breakthrough for people struggling with weight issues aka not good for big business.

Has anyone tried one of these massagers on their scalp? I think it would give a really good tingle. I remember my 90 year old grandpa had one and would use it on his knees. As a kid when i would go and visit it would play with it, i remember it giving me extremely tingly skin, to the point where i wanted to itch


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Re: injury/bald scalp/hair re-growth. explain.

Post  SlowMoe on Thu May 31, 2012 5:29 am

AL123 wrote:
SlowMoe wrote:How about we get enough of this stuff for a 12 month trial hmmmm.
didn't really get it. can you re-phrase your question?

I think we should perform a 12 month trial on this forum, if you can get your hands on a 12 month supply. Find someone with very short hair who is willing to take pictures once a month or so.
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Re: injury/bald scalp/hair re-growth. explain.

Post  j87x on Thu May 31, 2012 11:40 am

elan164 wrote:Emu oil, fish oil under a green house wrap is what im trying right now. I think its hard to find info on how to do that because it would be a huge breakthrough for people struggling with weight issues aka not good for big business.
I've been thinking about adding topical blue ice fermented cod liver oil/royal butter. I'm weary of using regular fish oil due to the oxidation/rancidity issues.

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Re: injury/bald scalp/hair re-growth. explain.

Post  LawOfThelema on Thu May 31, 2012 12:04 pm

j87x wrote:
elan164 wrote:Emu oil, fish oil under a green house wrap is what im trying right now. I think its hard to find info on how to do that because it would be a huge breakthrough for people struggling with weight issues aka not good for big business.
I've been thinking about adding topical blue ice fermented cod liver oil/royal butter. I'm weary of using regular fish oil due to the oxidation/rancidity issues.

This sounds good. High sources of alpha linoleic acid could also be good but the body has an issue with efficiently converting the ALA to EPA and EPA is what really helps keep the inflammatory reactions on the Omega 6 side under control. So taking EPA topically, directly rather than going thru metabolising ALA should be more effective. I think for rapid results topical is the way to go. Who is to say how much of the fish oil you take internally actually ever makes it to your hair follicle. That's not to say don't use antiinflammitory dietary factors, but it just seems so much more potent to do it topically on the affected area.

Other oils to consider
tea tree, lavender - anti DHT

thyme, oregano - anti PGD2


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Re: injury/bald scalp/hair re-growth. explain.

Post  Thin in FL on Thu May 31, 2012 12:23 pm

I've been making an effort lately to start with aggressive brushing (Ferox Method) and then apply a topical (favs include: olive, coconut, folligen, emu and polysorbate 80). I am in the beggining stages of this, but the logic seems to be there, especially given the brushing should help the topicals penetrate another layer.

About once a week I will do the above and put a shower cap on and sleep with the oils on my scalp... mixed feelings about this though.

About wounding... could a slick bald man just go nuts with sand paper and have a whole head of hair in a couple months?? Wounding seems like a fine line, I know of a few guys who have knicks and scars on their heads where hair doesn't grow...


Last edited by Thin in FL on Thu May 31, 2012 12:24 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : grammer, addition)

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Re: injury/bald scalp/hair re-growth. explain.

Post  LawOfThelema on Thu May 31, 2012 12:52 pm

Thin in FL wrote:
About once a week I will do the above and put a shower cap on and sleep with the oils on my scalp... mixed feelings about this though.

Mixed feelings in what sense? In my own situation I live with my parents. The only issue I'd worry about is getting made fun of by my father who is a really emotionally abusive person. I'd still do it anyway (wear the cap) and just ignore what he has to say. Keeping my hair in a good state is more important than appeasing someone elses archaic and silly notions about what males should and shouldnt do to deal with balding.

About wounding... could a slick bald man just go nuts with sand paper and have a whole head of hair in a couple months?? Wounding seems like a fine line, I know of a few guys who have knicks and scars on their heads where hair doesn't grow...
I have seen people recommend sand papering. Not viable for those of us who aren't slick bald. Concerning the scars where hair doesnt grow: I dont think we would want to wound so traumatically so as to generate scar tissue which could damage the follicle irrevocably or prevent hair from sprouting up thru such thick tissue..

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Re: injury/bald scalp/hair re-growth. explain.

Post  j87x on Thu May 31, 2012 4:02 pm

I'm starting to wonder if coconut oil (medium chain triglycerides) are a bad idea topically, since they are supposed to help decrease adipose. Any ideas?

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Re: injury/bald scalp/hair re-growth. explain.

Post  LawOfThelema on Thu May 31, 2012 4:32 pm

I came across that as well. I figured it applies to ingestion. Would it apply to topical absorbtion?

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Re: injury/bald scalp/hair re-growth. explain.

Post  LawOfThelema on Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:12 am

http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/early/2012/03/15/ajpendo.00623.2011.abstract

Abstract

Here, we show that Elovl3 (Elongation of very long chain-fatty acids) was involved in the regulation of the progression of adipogenesis through activation of peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor (PPAR) γ in mouse adipocytic 3T3-L1 cells. The expression of the Elovl3 gene increased during adipogenesis, the expression pattern of which was similar to that of the PPARγ gene. Troglitazone, a PPARγ agonist, enhanced Elovl3 expression in adipocytes, as it did that of other PPARγ-target genes. Promoter-reporter analysis demonstrated that 3 PPAR-responsive elements in the Elovl3 gene promoter had the potential to activate its expression in 3T3-L1 cells. Moreover, the chromatin immunoprecipitation assay revealed that PPARγγ bound these PPAR-responsive elements of the Elovl3 promoter. When the Elovl3 mRNA level was suppressed by its siRNAs, the level of intracellular triglycerides was significantly decreased; and the expression level of adipogenic, lipolytic, and lipogenic genes was also repressed. In the mammalian two-hybrid assay, C18:1 and C20:1 very long chain-fatty acids (VLCFAs), which are the products of Elovl3, activated PPARγ function. In addition, these same VLCFAs could prevent the Elovl3 siRNA-mediated suppression of adipogenesis by enhancing the expression of adipogenic, lipolytic, and lipogenic genes in adipocytes. Moreover, this VLCFAs-mediated activation was repressed by a PPARγ antagonist. These results indicate that the expression of the Elovl3 gene was activated by PPARγ during adipogenesis. Elovl3-produced C18:1 and C20:1 VLCFAs acted as agonists of PPARγ in 3T3-L1 cells. Thus, the Elovl3-PPARγ cascade is a novel regulatory circuit for the regulation of adipogenesis through improvement of PPARγ function in adipocytes.

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Re: injury/bald scalp/hair re-growth. explain.

Post  jobey on Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:29 am

I posted years ago now that i felt scalp massage had helped my hair. A few months ago i decided to try massage again after a long break.
Again i feel it has helped. My skull was tight and is now much more flexible. Hairs that were minturising rapidly seem to be hanging on in there.
I have a shaven head so can massage vigorously without ripping hairs out. Maybe this is key.

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Re: injury/bald scalp/hair re-growth. explain.

Post  LawOfThelema on Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:41 am

I don't think it matters much. My hairs are 6+ inches long and very few fall out by massaging.

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Re: injury/bald scalp/hair re-growth. explain.

Post  Thin in FL on Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:12 am

LawOfThelema:
Lol, my mixed feelings on a shower cap were not based on pride or feeling too goofy, I could care less about that (not that anybody but my wife sees me anyway). THE reason, is that in the morning my head and hair feel suffocated... the oil absorbation and extended time is good IMO, but for me I feel like my scalp/skin hasn't been able to breathe, thus I prefer to leave the oil on for extended periods during the evening. Just personal preference for the most part.

Yea I agree with your remarks on wounding, scar tissue IMO is a terrible thing for the galea. Fibrosis/scar tissue has been identified as possible results of inflammation, thus no good.
It seems with the brushing that it has to be just enough to create proper healing/stimulation, without triggering 'too much healing' aka, scarring. I think the brushing is excellent for busting up potential fibrosis and calcification.

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Re: injury/bald scalp/hair re-growth. explain.

Post  LawOfThelema on Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:30 am

its probably just a mental thing, man. it just feels weird because you dont do it often. i dont think the scalp needs to "breathe" per se. it can breathe for the 16 hours you arent sleeping. lol

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Re: injury/bald scalp/hair re-growth. explain.

Post  LawOfThelema on Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:55 pm

j87x wrote:
elan164 wrote:Emu oil, fish oil under a green house wrap is what im trying right now. I think its hard to find info on how to do that because it would be a huge breakthrough for people struggling with weight issues aka not good for big business.
I've been thinking about adding topical blue ice fermented cod liver oil/royal butter. I'm weary of using regular fish oil due to the oxidation/rancidity issues.

So I was in the drug store today reading the various fish oils. Salmon oil had the highest doses of EPA and DHA out of all the oil supplements, which are what we want. Not sure if you can find it in a fermented variety though. If nothing else it might be worth just taking it internally, again, along with an internal source of Gamma Linoleic acid.

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Re: injury/bald scalp/hair re-growth. explain.

Post  bartek007 on Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:55 pm

Hello,I'm from Poland (East Europe).In my region very popular method to fight against hair loss (MPB) is rubbing salt on scalp.Wash Your hair in mild shampoo and rub salt into scalp for 10-15 minutes and rinse Your hair in warm water.I do this every day and my hair loss has completly stoped and after 4-5 months I see plenty new hairs.During salt rub my scalp become red and itch....It is good sign.Sorry for my English

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Re: injury/bald scalp/hair re-growth. explain.

Post  young trunks on Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:18 pm

bartek007 wrote:Hello,I'm from Poland (East Europe).In my region very popular method to fight against hair loss (MPB) is rubbing salt on scalp.Wash Your hair in mild shampoo and rub salt into scalp for 10-15 minutes and rinse Your hair in warm water.I do this every day and my hair loss has completly stoped and after 4-5 months I see plenty new hairs.During salt rub my scalp become red and itch....It is good sign.Sorry for my English

Pictures?

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Re: injury/bald scalp/hair re-growth. explain.

Post  Decro435 on Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:57 am

bartek007 wrote:Hello,I'm from Poland (East Europe).In my region very popular method to fight against hair loss (MPB) is rubbing salt on scalp.Wash Your hair in mild shampoo and rub salt into scalp for 10-15 minutes and rinse Your hair in warm water.I do this every day and my hair loss has completly stoped and after 4-5 months I see plenty new hairs.During salt rub my scalp become red and itch....It is good sign.Sorry for my English

It makes sense, Salt would dissolve the sebum reducing the body's inflammatory response. Salt is also an anti-inflammatory. Look at most natural treatments, they all act on dissolving sebum and inhibiting inflammation which is the final act in MPB. Apple Cider Vinegar , baking soda etc.. all work in the same way. Whether or not Sea Salt has a stronger effect is unknown. I might try sea salt instead and see how I get on with it.

Would you mind me asking what age you are and how advanced is your hair loss?.

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Re: injury/bald scalp/hair re-growth. explain.

Post  LawOfThelema on Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:33 am

Bartek007, So you just rub dry salt into the scalp?

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Re: injury/bald scalp/hair re-growth. explain.

Post  Balthier on Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:06 am

the fact that your scalp became red means it was increasing circulation which might be the only reason that works.

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Re: injury/bald scalp/hair re-growth. explain.

Post  SlowMoe on Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:39 am

Balthier wrote:the fact that your scalp became red means it was increasing circulation which might be the only reason that works.

Yeah. Also, the salt might be causing micro abrasions, and irritating the abrasions at the same time, causing even better blood flow...?
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Re: injury/bald scalp/hair re-growth. explain.

Post  SlowMoe on Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:33 am

I found this interesting.

A study was conducted where fin was used to maintain the hair surrounding the hair transplant area. 94% of the people in the fin group had improved hair density at the end of the trial period....Interestingly, 67% of the test subjects in the placebo group were found to have improved hair density.

So could it be that the wounding caused by the transplant initiated angiogenesis in the hairs surrounding the implants? I think so, and if it is true, that would be even more proof that circulation is indeed involved in the MPB process and that DHT and DHT sensitive receptors are but a piece of the puzzle.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/16188178/?i=62&from=androgenetic%20alopecia%20placebo


Effects of finasteride (1 mg) on hair transplant.

AuthorsLeavitt M, et al. Show all Journal
Dermatol Surg. 2005 Oct;31(10):1268-76, discussion 1276.

Affiliation
Medical Hair Restoration, 120 International Parkway, Ste. 240, Heathrow, FL 32746, USA. mlleavitt@aol.com

Abstract
BACKGROUND: The improved scalp coverage achieved by hair transplant for men with androgenetic alopecia can be diminished by continued miniaturization and loss of preexisting, nontransplanted hairs.

OBJECTIVES: To evaluate whether finasteride 1 mg, administered daily from 4 weeks before until 48 weeks after hair transplant, improves scalp hair and growth of nontransplanted hair in areas surrounding the transplant and to evaluate the safety and tolerability of finasteride for men undergoing hair transplant.

METHODS: In this randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study, 79 men with androgenetic alopecia (20-45 years of age) were assigned to treatment with finasteride 1 mg (n = 40) or placebo (n = 39) once daily from 4 weeks before until 48 weeks after hair transplant. Efficacy was evaluated by review of global photographs by an expert dermatologist and by macrophotography for scalp hair counts.

RESULTS: Treatment with finasteride resulted in significant improvements from baseline, compared with placebo, in scalp hair based on global photographic assessment (p < .01) and hair counts (p < .01) at week 48. Visible increases in superior/frontal scalp hair post-transplant were recorded for 94% and 67% of patients in the finasteride and placebo groups, respectively. Finasteride treatment was generally well tolerated.

CONCLUSION: For men with androgenetic alopecia, therapy with finasteride 1 mg daily from 4 weeks before until 48 weeks after hair transplant improves scalp hair surrounding the hair transplant and increases hair density.
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Re: injury/bald scalp/hair re-growth. explain.

Post  elan164 on Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:10 pm

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0014489474900332

Brown adipose tissue (BAT) was the most heavily infected tissue (mean 223 amastigotes/50 microscopic fields) by Trypanosoma cruzi in mice (P > 0.05) out of the 16 tissues examined. The second most infected group of tissues was the heart (mean 83 amastigotes), adrenal cortex (64), skeletal muscle (56), and pancreas (54). BAT and the adrenal cortex were only slightly infected in rats, and not infected at all in hamsters and guinea pigs.

It appears that something is present in BAT, and in the adrenal cortex of mice that is physiologically attractive and growth stimulating to T. cruzi. Certain in vitro experiments with T. cruzi may be in order to determine whether certain steroid hormones may be stimulatory.

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Re: injury/bald scalp/hair re-growth. explain.

Post  LawOfThelema on Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:56 pm

well, what density parameter are they using ^^

the overall density MUST RISE as a result of the transplant itself. thats what a hair transplant is. or are they somehow measuring the density of all the hair minus the transplanted hair?

i think all that study is saying is that with or without fin hair transplants work at improving the appearance of the hair in the balding region. fin is a good adjuct treatment to HT. seems to be what the article is saying.

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Re: injury/bald scalp/hair re-growth. explain.

Post  Mastery on Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:01 pm

Decro435 wrote:
bartek007 wrote:Hello,I'm from Poland (East Europe).In my region very popular method to fight against hair loss (MPB) is rubbing salt on scalp.Wash Your hair in mild shampoo and rub salt into scalp for 10-15 minutes and rinse Your hair in warm water.I do this every day and my hair loss has completly stoped and after 4-5 months I see plenty new hairs.During salt rub my scalp become red and itch....It is good sign.Sorry for my English

It makes sense, Salt would dissolve the sebum reducing the body's inflammatory response. Salt is also an anti-inflammatory. Look at most natural treatments, they all act on dissolving sebum and inhibiting inflammation which is the final act in MPB. Apple Cider Vinegar , baking soda etc.. all work in the same way. Whether or not Sea Salt has a stronger effect is unknown. I might try sea salt instead and see how I get on with it.

Would you mind me asking what age you are and how advanced is your hair loss?.


All fits with my sea water therapy protocols....

M
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