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Little concerned about the boron in Decalcify

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Little concerned about the boron in Decalcify

Post  baller234 on Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:47 am

I've been wanting to try decalcify because it is quality zinc, magnesium, and potassium orotate supplement all in one. I've been taking ZMA but I've heard orotate is better. I' curious as to why boron was put in there. My experience with boron in the past was an increase in estrogen. I've read boron increases copper too, not sure if that's true or not but it doesn't seem desirable to me. One of you knowledgeable fellas wanna clear this up for me? lol

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Re: Little concerned about the boron in Decalcify

Post  CausticSymmetry on Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:48 am


That's a nice link on boron. The principle reasons why boron is in there is due its positive effect on infection (it's a natural antimicrobial) and its beneficial effect on calcium metabolism and hormones.

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Re: Little concerned about the boron in Decalcify

Post  LittleFighter on Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:02 am

Probably no one can answer this here.

I have posted info in the past showing that Boron decreases estradiol. In only one page (where are the references?) they give negative statements saying it is estrogenic.

Researchers, in the above-mentioned study [1], decided to give participants boron levels near the upper end of what one can get through diet. They gave 8 healthy volunteers right around middle-age 10 mg of sodium tetraborate - Borax for you old-timers - on a daily basis. The results were remarkable.
Looks at the sex life-boosting properties that Borax exhibited:

1. Free Testosterone. Increased 28%. [5] (See my link on Free Testosterone for more information.)

2. Estradiol. Decreased 39%.[5] (NOTE: You do not want your estrogen to go too low. See my link on The Importance of Some Estrogen for details.)

3. DHT. Increased (not statistically significantly however).

4. Vitamin D. (not statistically significantly, but boron is a known increaser of Vitamin D)

5. C-Reactive Protein. Statisically significant decrease.

6. TNF-alpha. Statisically significant decrease.



See:
http://www.fruitexb.com/


Also, borax or inorganic boron compounds are not fructoborates, so they might not work equally well.
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Re: Little concerned about the boron in Decalcify

Post  LittleFighter on Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:05 am

http://www.ergo-log.com/boron.html

If men take 10 mg boron every day for a week with their breakfast, their free testosterone levels rise by almost thirty percent and their estradiol goes down by forty percent, sports scientists at the University of Medical Sciences in Teheran discovered.

A reduction of TNF and CRP levels where found too.
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Re: Little concerned about the boron in Decalcify

Post  baller234 on Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:01 pm

Hmm interesting. I wonder how that one study came to the conclusion that it increases estrogen in males?

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Re: Little concerned about the boron in Decalcify

Post  987 on Sat Jun 23, 2012 3:24 pm

LittleFighter wrote:http://www.ergo-log.com/boron.html

If men take 10 mg boron every day for a week with their breakfast, their free testosterone levels rise by almost thirty percent and their estradiol goes down by forty percent, sports scientists at the University of Medical Sciences in Teheran discovered.

A reduction of TNF and CRP levels where found too.

That sounds great but isnt free T what we should be worried about converting into dht, or is this why we'd
want to increase shbg along with testosterone levels in any case? Does higher shbg just cancel out the point of increased free test levels?For some reason Iam under confident assumption that I am one of those really low shbg cases.

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Re: Little concerned about the boron in Decalcify

Post  LawOfThelema on Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:55 pm

i doubt free t would be the main bottleneck in dht conversion. its more likely 5ar activity. increasing free t without affecting 5ar should have a negligible effect if any on your hair.

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Re: Little concerned about the boron in Decalcify

Post  baller234 on Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:24 am

From http://www.ithyroid.com/boron.htm


The following study shows that boron supplementation in males can increase estradiol (estrogen) and testosterone levels. This suggests that boron is involved in the conversion of progesterone into estradiol and testosterone. Since we have seen that hypers often have high progesterone levels and low estradiol levels (testosterone levels not known), this study offers more evidence that a boron deficiency may be involved in hyperthyroidism.
Biol Trace Elem Res 1997 Mar;56(3):273-86


The effect of boron supplementation on its urinary excretion and selected cardiovascular risk factors in healthy male subjects.

Naghii MR, Samman S

Department of Biochemistry, University of Sydney, NSW, Australia.

Boron (B) is an essential trace element for plants and its interrelationship with mineral and bone metabolism and endocrine function in humans has been proposed. Relatively little is known about the occurrence of B in the food chain and hence a biomarker which reflects its intake is required. Two studies were carried out to quantify the urinary B concentration of subjects consuming their habitual diet and the effect of supplementation. In addition, the effect of supplementation on plasma lipoprotein cholesterol concentrations and susceptibility to oxidation and plasma steroid hormones were determined. Boron excretion, obtained on two different occasions from 18 healthy male subjects, was found to be in the range 0.35-3.53 mg/day, with no significant difference between the two occasions. Supplementation with 10 mg B/d for 4 wk resulted in 84% of the supplemented dose being recovered in the urine. Plasma estradiol concentrations increased significantly as a result of supplementation (51.9 +/- 21.4 to 73.9 +/- 22.2 pmol/L; p < 0.004) and there was a trend for plasma testosterone levels to be increased. However, there was no difference in plasma lipids or the oxidizability of low-density lipoprotein. Our studies suggest that the absorption efficiency of B is very high and estimation of the urinary B concentration may provide a useful reflection of B intake. In addition, the elevation of endogenous estrogen as a result of supplementation suggests a protective role for B in atherosclerosis.





also




The following study is a gold mine. The study shows that boron supplementation increases estradiol and testosterone and for reasons given above I believe that these results suggest that boron might be deficient in hyperthyroidism. Additionally boron was shown to decrease plasma concentrations of calcium. High calcium levels may be associated with increased heart rate. Since calcium and magnesium act as antagonists, this reduction of calcium by boron may allow magnesium levels to rise and thereby lower the heart rate and muscle cramps.

Additionally boron was shown to increase plasma copper, copper-zinc superoxide dismutase (SOD is one of the body's most important free radical scavengers), and ceruloplasmin (a protein which transports copper). Here is direct evidence that boron is essential for copper metabolism and therefore quite probably for the correction of hyperthyroidism and possibly hypothyroidism.

Furthermore, the study offers a possible explanation for why estrogen may slow thyroid function: it increases plasma copper, SOD, and ceruloplasmin. Boron also increased these variables whether estrogen was administered or not.

This is excellent documentation to support my observations that boron was important in my recovery from hyperT.
Environ Health Perspect 1994 Nov;102 Suppl 7:59-63


Biochemical and physiologic consequences of boron deprivation in humans.

Nielsen FH

United States Department of Agriculture, Agricultural Research Service, Grand Forks, North Dakota 58202-9034.

Boron deprivation experiments with humans have yielded some persuasive findings for the hypothesis that boron is an essential nutrient. In the first nutritional study with humans involving boron, 12 postmenopausal women first were fed a diet that provided 0.25 mg boron/2000 kcal for 119 days, and then were fed the same diet with a boron supplement of 3 mg boron/day for 48 days. The boron supplementation reduced the total plasma concentration of calcium and the urinary excretions of calcium and magnesium, and elevated the serum concentrations of 17 beta-estradiol and testosterone. This study was followed by one in which five men over the age of 45, four postmenopausal women, and five postmenopausal women on estrogen therapy were fed a boron-low diet (0.23 mg/2000 kcal) for 63 days, then fed the same diet supplemented with 3 mg boron/day for 49 days. The diet was low in magnesium (115 mg/2000 kcal) and marginally adequate in copper (1.6 mg/2000 kcal) throughout the study. This experiment found higher erythrocyte superoxide dismutase, serum enzymatic ceruloplasmin, and plasma copper during boron repletion than boron depletion. The design of the most recent experiment was the same as the second study, except this time the diet was adequate in magnesium and copper. Estrogen therapy increased plasma copper and serum 17 beta-estradiol concentrations; the increases were depressed by boron deprivation. Estrogen ingestion also increased serum immunoreactive ceruloplasmin and erythrocyte superoxide dismutase; these variables also were higher during boron repletion than depletion for all subjects, not just those ingesting estrogen.



So it would seem boron would be great for some one with hyperthyroidism. These studies seem to suggest a slowing of the thyroid which I don't think us non hypers want.



Last edited by baller234 on Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:25 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spacing)

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Re: Little concerned about the boron in Decalcify

Post  Witherwind on Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:56 pm

For the past couple of days I've upped the dose of boron to 6 to 9 mg 2 times a day. And the amazing thing is that it turned my usual yellow and clumpy semen for the past 5 years to white and non-clumpy.

I've previously been eating boron 3mg 3 times a day and it had no what-so-ever effect.

This shows 2 things, one, that it is antimicrobial as CS said as boron is excreted in the urine and i believe that yellow semen is a sign of infection in the prostate in contrary to modern medicine.

Two, boron increases testosterone and clumpy semen, a sign of low testosterone, was diminished.

I think the effects of boron supplementation depends on individual to individual and same goes to the dosage.


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Re: Little concerned about the boron in Decalcify

Post  LittleFighter on Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:18 pm

What type of boron did you use?

Fructoborate? (organic compound)

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Re: Little concerned about the boron in Decalcify

Post  Witherwind on Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:05 pm

I use source natural tri-boron. I have not tried other brands yet.

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Re: Little concerned about the boron in Decalcify

Post  CausticSymmetry on Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:27 am

I take three Decalcify's per day, which provides 9 mg of boron. When people ask me, why the boron? I answer, the antimicrobial activity.

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Re: Little concerned about the boron in Decalcify

Post  ubraj on Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:57 am

FWIW, not many people tackle methods to help lower radiation but boron is helpful here.

For example, radiation from a single dental X-Ray will raise cancer virus scores to be raised "very" significantly per Dr. Loyd.

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Re: Little concerned about the boron in Decalcify

Post  Changexpert on Mon Dec 21, 2015 11:34 am

So what's the consensus on boron's effect on estrogen? Does it increase or decrease estradiol?
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Re: Little concerned about the boron in Decalcify

Post  thissucks on Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:14 am

Any recent thoughts on Boron? I've never tried supplementing with it.

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Re: Little concerned about the boron in Decalcify

Post  CausticSymmetry on Sun Jun 04, 2017 3:39 am

thissucks wrote:Any recent thoughts on Boron?  I've never tried supplementing with it.

What is FruiteX-B (Calcium Fructoborate)?

The three-borate forms contained by the hydrolyzed calcium fructoborate (diester, monoester, and boric acid) are all biologically active, both at the intracellular (boric acid) and extracellular levels (diester and monoester).

Transportation of the boric acid through the cellular membrane is being accomplished by free diffusion or is facilitated by aquaporin-like protein transporter. Recently, it has been reported that boron is not being transported as borate anion [34], but only as boric acid. If so, the exact mechanism of boron transportation in the animal cell remains unclear [35–37]. Consequently, CF is superior to the boric acid/borate due to its complex action mechanism, both at the intracellular (as free boric acid) and extracellular level (as fructose-borate esters). Moreover, the free boric acid resulting from hydrolysis of the fructoborate complex may be less toxic than the dietary supplement intake of the regular boric acid/borax/sodium borate. Because CF has been shown to be an efficient, non-toxic precursor of the borate anion, having multiple published studies on its numerous potential contributions to human health, nutritional supplementation with CF offers significant benefits in support of healthy bone and joints, as well as for cardiovascular health.

The trace mineral boron is a micronutrient with diverse and vitally important roles in metabolism that render it necessary for plant, animal, and human health, and as recent research suggests, possibly for the evolution of life on Earth. As the current article shows, boron has been proven to be an important trace mineral because it (1) is essential for the growth and maintenance of bone; (2) greatly improves wound healing; (3) beneficially impacts the body’s use of estrogen, testosterone, and vitamin D; (4) boosts magnesium absorption; (5) reduces levels of inflammatory biomarkers, such as high-sensitivity C-reactive protein (hs-CRP) and tumor necrosis factor α (TNF-α); (6) raises levels of antioxidant enzymes, such as superoxide dismutase (SOD), catalase, and glutathione peroxidase; (7) protects against pesticide-induced oxidative stress and heavy-metal toxicity; (Cool improves the brains electrical activity, cognitive performance, and short-term memory for elders; (9) influences the formation and activity of key biomolecules, such as S-adenosyl methionine (SAM-e) and nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD+); (10) has demonstrated preventive and therapeutic effects in a number of cancers, such as prostate, cervical, and lung cancers, and multiple and non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma; and (11) may help ameliorate the adverse effects of traditional chemotherapeutic agents. In none of the numerous studies conducted to date, however, do boron’s beneficial effects appear at intakes > 3 mg/d. No estimated average requirements (EARs) or dietary reference intakes (DRIs) have been set for boron—only an upper intake level (UL) of 20 mg/d for individuals aged ≥ 18 y. The absence of studies showing harm in conjunction with the substantial number of articles showing benefits support the consideration of boron supplementation of 3 mg/d for any individual who is consuming a diet lacking in fruits and vegetables or who is at risk for or has osteopenia; osteoporosis; osteoarthritis (OA); or breast, prostate, or lung cancer.

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Re: Little concerned about the boron in Decalcify

Post  Columbo on Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:41 pm

I tried boron, 6 mg. It seemed to increase testosterone but it also gave me mighty itchy nips, indicating some sort of estrogen inducing activity. It could be that the extra testosteron was getting aromatised, but hard to say without testing
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