Critical Look at PUFA vs. Saturated Fats

anthonyspencer54 on Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:20 am

Interesting blog post by Chris Masterjohn on the big fat debacle, PUFA vs. Saturated...

http://www.westonaprice.org/blogs/cmasterjohn/2012/05/17/ajcn-publishes-a-new-pufa-study-that-should-make-us-long-for-the-old-days/

I'm sure ol' Ray would have a field day with this, but I'd like to see a good debate on the fats, and some good evidence for both sides. Fatty acid metabolism is a very complex process and I'm having trouble trying to get a complete view of the whole picture especially when the issue of carbohydrate is thrown in.

But some main takeaways that I find very important:

1) The liver fat accumulation associated with saturated fatty acids is completely ameliorated by a diet sufficient in protein, choline, and methionine.
2) The oxidative and adverse metabolic effects of PUFA seem to be mitigated by sufficient vitamin E, and only during times of sufficient stress and oxidative burden does high membrane PUFA content become a problem.

I also believe getting a proper ratio of omega 3 to omega 6 should almost completely eliminate the negative aspects of PUFA in the diet, so long as the overall load doesn't exceed around 15 grams, that puts omega 6 and omega 3 content at around 3% total calories respectively. I know Peat's fans are going to think that's way too high, as I believe he recommends less than 5 per day.

anthonyspencer54 on Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:28 am

An article from the Rife website:

http://royalrife.com/diabetes.html

Seems to agree that one of the problems with PUFA is an imbalance in n-3 to n-6.
Without sufficient n-3 in the membrane, the cell cannot translocate the GLUT-4 receptor
to the cell surface in response to insulin. They cite this as the cause for diabetes, and
sufficient omega 3 intake can correct it.

The effect of dietary fat [on insulin resistance] is largely or completely overridden if the high-fat diet is modified to contain nontrivial quantities (in excess of 5–10% of total fat intake) of polyunsaturated omega-3 fatty acids. (http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/40/2/280.short)

abc123 on Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:55 am

anthonyspencer54 wrote:An article from the Rife website:

http://royalrife.com/diabetes.html

Seems to agree that one of the problems with PUFA is an imbalance in n-3 to n-6.
Without sufficient n-3 in the membrane, the cell cannot translocate the GLUT-4 receptor
to the cell surface in response to insulin. They cite this as the cause for diabetes, and
sufficient omega 3 intake can correct it.

The effect of dietary fat [on insulin resistance] is largely or completely overridden if the high-fat diet is modified to contain nontrivial quantities (in excess of 5–10% of total fat intake) of polyunsaturated omega-3 fatty acids. (http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/40/2/280.short)

If n-3 is so crucial for health I'd honestly like to know why I'm not dead by now. I've been at 0.8% pufa for 18 months now, and therefore probably close to 0.2% n-3. Because I am a very lean individual, I should be experiencing a cellular deficiency by now.

Also, the liver fat accumulation in that study really has nothing to do with actual fatty liver.

anthonyspencer54 on Fri Aug 03, 2012 4:24 am

ABC,

I knew you'd be the first haha.

I just have a couple of questions. I've been thinking about starting to really hammer-down and track my PUFA intake. But I feel like it would be very difficult to actually know exactly how much you are getting without severely reducing the variation in your diet. I mean, most n-6 also comes with some level of n-3 as linoleic acid. How do you track how much you are getting so specifically? Could you give me an example of your daily diet, just wondering what your other sources of fat are. You'd almost have to eat no animal fat and minimize meat to be that low. 4 oz. of beef contains between 2-3 grams PUFA.

Also, having gone that long on low PUFA, have you noticed any changes in your energy level, body fat, sense of well-being?

I mean, membrane fluidity is pretty much correlated only with the amount of PUFA in them. Omega 3 is needed for not only neural regeneration, the brain has a high omega 3 content. Proper functioning of the retina requires n-3. That just doesn't seem like enough to be getting in the diet, but hell, maybe I"m overestimating our needs.

Thanks sir.

abc123 on Fri Aug 03, 2012 5:04 am

anthonyspencer54 wrote:ABC,

I knew you'd be the first haha.

Lol... I still lurk quite a bit; just not compelled to post much

I just have a couple of questions. I've been thinking about starting to really hammer-down and track my PUFA intake. But I feel like it would be very difficult to actually know exactly how much you are getting without severely reducing the variation in your diet. I mean, most n-6 also comes with some level of n-3 as linoleic acid. How do you track how much you are getting so specifically? Could you give me an example of your daily diet, just wondering what your other sources of fat are. You'd almost have to eat no animal fat and minimize meat to be that low. 4 oz. of beef contains between 2-3 grams PUFA.

I have a calorie counting background so I am quite aware of what I am eating. I suppose you could just put your diet into nutritiondata.com to see the fatty acid %.

As you guessed, I hardly eat any animal fat. I think the last time I ate muscle meat was 6 months ago. The fat I eat comes almost exclusively from low-fat milk and large amounts of coconut oil.

Also, having gone that long on low PUFA, have you noticed any changes in your energy level, body fat, sense of well-being?

I am like a different person; although I can't conclusively say it was pufa. I changed a lot of other things.

I mean, membrane fluidity is pretty much correlated only with the amount of PUFA in them. Omega 3 is needed for not only neural regeneration, the brain has a high omega 3 content. Proper functioning of the retina requires n-3. That just doesn't seem like enough to be getting in the diet, but hell, maybe I"m overestimating our needs.

My diet, low in iron, rich in coconut and aspirin, probably drastically decreases my "need" for n-3.

RP has been pufa restricting for decades. Regardless if one thinks he's full of shit or not, when you listen to an interview with him, it is very clear his brain is functioning spectacularly. His ability to recall facts is nothing short of astonishing.

Thanks sir.

anthonyspencer54 on Fri Aug 03, 2012 2:43 pm

ABC,

Good stuff, thanks. I wasn't considering the iron component either. I think one of the studies I read recently showed that one of the primary stressors to PUFA in the liver was the iron load. But again, your diet is pretty antiinflammatory so perhaps without so much n-6, the n-3 just isn't necessary to counterbalance it.

And I agree about RP. I may not be on board with everything the good doc says, but I've listened to a few interviews with him and for his age, he is very clear minded and he speaks smoothly without many pauses to gather his thoughts like you tend to hear in older people.

lambyjay on Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:30 pm

anthonyspencer54 wrote:ABC,

I mean, membrane fluidity is pretty much correlated only with the amount of PUFA in them..

Thanks sir.

That could be the case but I was under the impression that the cell uptakes and releases cholesterol as the main mechanism behind maintaining fluidity.

Increased PUFA in the membrane results in cholesterol uptake (lower blood cholesterol) and increased saturated fat in the cell membrane results in a release of cholesterol into the bloodstream to increase membrane fluidity (thus this mainstream phobia of cholesterol is quite idiotic if this is the case).

Critical Look at PUFA vs. Saturated Fats

Critical Look at PUFA vs. Saturated Fats

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