Search
 
 

Display results as :
 


Rechercher Advanced Search

Check Out Our Sponsors
Brought to you by
Hair Loss Forum
Navigation
 Portal
 Index
 Memberlist
 Profile
 FAQ
 Search
Navigation
 Portal
 Index
 Memberlist
 Profile
 FAQ
 Search

an ideal EFA composition of a topical oil/ safflower more effective than finasteride

Page 2 of 2 Previous  1, 2

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: an ideal EFA composition of a topical oil/ safflower more effective than finasteride

Post  moby on Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:53 pm

you still haven't gotten anywhere. What should we be taking ORALLY to get the equivalent efficacy of finasteride?

moby

Posts : 558
Join date : 2012-07-21

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: an ideal EFA composition of a topical oil/ safflower more effective than finasteride

Post  TrueGround on Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:05 pm

Moby,

If we knew the answer to a completely safe alternative to fin, don't you think the word would be all over the place by now? He's specifically trying to concoct a topical here. If he can get the fatty acid composition right with an efficient extraction method of herbs and solid delivery to the tissue, he might be onto something.


TrueGround

Posts : 208
Join date : 2012-01-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: an ideal EFA composition of a topical oil/ safflower more effective than finasteride

Post  AL123 on Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:20 pm

If he can get the fatty acid composition right with an efficient extraction method of herbs and solid delivery to the tissue, he might be onto something.
this. in MPB, scalp sites are at fault. i prefer topical applications. moby and trueground, check the following pictures. i'll take them down then.

before:
http://i45.servimg.com/u/f45/17/45/29/29/dsc07810.jpg

after 1 month:
http://i45.servimg.com/u/f45/17/45/29/29/img_2010.jpg

after 4 months:
http://i45.servimg.com/u/f45/17/45/29/29/dsc09410.jpg
http://i45.servimg.com/u/f45/17/45/29/29/dsc09510.jpg
http://i45.servimg.com/u/f45/17/45/29/29/dsc09511.jpg

AL123

Posts : 101
Join date : 2012-04-20

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: an ideal EFA composition of a topical oil/ safflower more effective than finasteride

Post  AL123 on Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:26 pm

TrueGround,
i plan to use another method today.
the blender method.
i'll grind the herbs, and blend them in the oil. at medium/high speeds, the oil would go 'warm', this slight change in temperature and the smell would give a fair idea of the infusion. but at least it won't go bad. i'll try getting the mixture checked in a lab to ensure the level of infusion.
so, it's not the heat/light which ruins it, but the presence of air/oxygen along with the heat. as i told you, my solar infusions never went rancid, even when i kept them under sunlight for a 3-4 weeks.

AL123

Posts : 101
Join date : 2012-04-20

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: an ideal EFA composition of a topical oil/ safflower more effective than finasteride

Post  AL123 on Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:39 pm

i decided on the following 3 carrier oils, taking into account their essential fatty acid composition:
equal proportions (250g each) of:

olive oil: 20g Linoleic acid, 188g oleic acid, 40g saturated
coconut oil: 7.5g linoleic acid, 15g oleic acid, 215g saturated
sesame oil: 112.5g linoleic acid, 105g oleic, 32.5 saturated

infusing 250g ground flax seeds: 54g alpha-linolenic acid
and then some of my special herbs, few of the ingredients of which are quercetin and luteolin.

the above maintains a 2.6:1 ratio of LA:ALA, which is supposed to be 'ideal'. oleic acid will help with the penetration, and lauric acid in the saturated fats is known to be a better penetration enhancer. i could infuse safflower seeds for it's LA and quercetin, but that has already been taken care of, unless an expert here points out why else safflower extract worked better than finasteride at inhibiting 5-ar.

AL123

Posts : 101
Join date : 2012-04-20

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: an ideal EFA composition of a topical oil/ safflower more effective than finasteride

Post  Thin in FL on Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:22 pm

http://www.hairloss-research.org/UpdateFishOil8-12.html

A slight tangent, but I have been following this thread, and the above article help clarify some of what's been discussed here.

Thin in FL

Posts : 57
Join date : 2012-04-12

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: an ideal EFA composition of a topical oil/ safflower more effective than finasteride

Post  AL123 on Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:36 pm

Thin in FL wrote:http://www.hairloss-research.org/UpdateFishOil8-12.html

A slight tangent, but I have been following this thread, and the above article help clarify some of what's been discussed here.

- the article suggests the role of fatty acids in the inhibition of 5-ar and achieving hair re-growth, hence confirming that we can dig into it and come up with a solution, though hardly anyone takes interest here.
on another forum, they say these fatty acids will do exactly as the studies suggest, if only they're in their 'free' form. and buying them from a chemical company in the free form is very very expensive (he said). who'd enlighten us here on the 'free' form thing? and whether we can perform a method on our available oils to extract free fatty acids?
- the article also highlights evening primrose oil for it's GLA. GLA and DGLA can be found in borage and black currant oils. i'll try to find black currant seeds to add to the infusion, if only an expert here guides me on the amount/dosage per ml of oil required.
- LA (only a tiny amount) is converted into GLA, which is then converted into DGLA, but it's said that one needs to raise EPA levels at the same time, because EPA blocks the conversion of DGLA into AA (arachidonic acid) which is a precursor of prostaglandin d2. now, we can raise EPA by increasing ALA (ALA converts to SDA, then into ETA, then EPA). where as we can get SDA directly from black currant oil as well.


AL123

Posts : 101
Join date : 2012-04-20

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: an ideal EFA composition of a topical oil/ safflower more effective than finasteride

Post  moby on Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:43 am

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12589947

"Our data revealed: (i) that incubation of MTC with [3H]-T resulted in marked conversion to [3H]-DHT when compared to similar incubation with BHC; (ii) that DHT-enhanced activity of 5 alpha-reductase was inhibited 80% by 15S-hydroxyeicosatrienoic acid, the 15-lipoxygenase metabolite of GLA, when compared to 55% by 15S-hydroxyeicosapentaenoic acid, the 15-lipoxygenase metabolite of EPA; and (iii) that their precursor fatty acids, respectively, exerted moderate inhibition. "

moby

Posts : 558
Join date : 2012-07-21

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: an ideal EFA composition of a topical oil/ safflower more effective than finasteride

Post  AL123 on Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:10 am

moby wrote:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12589947

"Our data revealed: (i) that incubation of MTC with [3H]-T resulted in marked conversion to [3H]-DHT when compared to similar incubation with BHC; (ii) that DHT-enhanced activity of 5 alpha-reductase was inhibited 80% by 15S-hydroxyeicosatrienoic acid, the 15-lipoxygenase metabolite of GLA, when compared to 55% by 15S-hydroxyeicosapentaenoic acid, the 15-lipoxygenase metabolite of EPA; and (iii) that their precursor fatty acids, respectively, exerted moderate inhibition. "

so, what's the point here? increasing GLA? will it convert to 15S-hydroxyeicosatrienoic acid?

AL123

Posts : 101
Join date : 2012-04-20

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: an ideal EFA composition of a topical oil/ safflower more effective than finasteride

Post  moby on Thu Sep 20, 2012 5:39 am

how was it not obvious? 5AR was up-regulated in that certain group of people with prostate issues. Supplementation with higher omega acids downregulated and inhibiting quite a lot of DHT. Remember that fatty acids study where they claimed to have gotten good results by giving their subjects 6 GRAMS of GLA daily?

moby

Posts : 558
Join date : 2012-07-21

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: an ideal EFA composition of a topical oil/ safflower more effective than finasteride

Post  Thin in FL on Thu Sep 20, 2012 6:29 am

http://www.hairloss-research.org/UpdateFishOil8-12.html (Source)

"by administering topically or systemically one or more unsaturated fatty acids selected from the 18:3 and higher acids in the n-6 series and 18:4 and higher acids in the n-3 series, in amounts of 1mg to 100g, preferably 50mg to 5g, daily with the limitation that for topical administration the acid(s) are selected from gamma-linolenic acid, acid and eicosapentaenoic acid."

So what's the practical application of a good GLA/EPA topical from the above?

"Cream of otherwise conventional cosmetic formulation containing by weight 5% evening primrose oil and 2% concentrated fish oil to be applied to the scalp twice per day in amounts of 1ml per 100 sq. cm. of skin."

Anyone using a topical that incorporates something similiar to the above?


Thin in FL

Posts : 57
Join date : 2012-04-12

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: an ideal EFA composition of a topical oil/ safflower more effective than finasteride

Post  AL123 on Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:11 am

moby wrote:how was it not obvious? 5AR was up-regulated in that certain group of people with prostate issues. Supplementation with higher omega acids downregulated and inhibiting quite a lot of DHT. Remember that fatty acids study where they claimed to have gotten good results by giving their subjects 6 GRAMS of GLA daily?
i asked because LA gets converted into GLA too.
so, should we look for GLA sources or increasing LA would do the trick? LA is easily available.
precaution: EPA levels have to be raised at the same time. GLA converts into DGLA which then gives rise to AA. that needs to be blocked by EPA. this was the very mistake i made with sesame oil. excessive LA, but no omega-3 to block conversion to AA. results were amazing in the beginning, as this study suggests the mechanism (inhibiting 5-ar). so it all makes sense.

AL123

Posts : 101
Join date : 2012-04-20

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: an ideal EFA composition of a topical oil/ safflower more effective than finasteride

Post  AL123 on Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:13 am

Thin in FL wrote:http://www.hairloss-research.org/UpdateFishOil8-12.html (Source)

"by administering topically or systemically one or more unsaturated fatty acids selected from the 18:3 and higher acids in the n-6 series and 18:4 and higher acids in the n-3 series, in amounts of 1mg to 100g, preferably 50mg to 5g, daily with the limitation that for topical administration the acid(s) are selected from gamma-linolenic acid, acid and eicosapentaenoic acid."

So what's the practical application of a good GLA/EPA topical from the above?

"Cream of otherwise conventional cosmetic formulation containing by weight 5% evening primrose oil and 2% concentrated fish oil to be applied to the scalp twice per day in amounts of 1ml per 100 sq. cm. of skin."

Anyone using a topical that incorporates something similiar to the above?

they used unsaturated fatty acids, does this mean these were bought from a chemical company in the 'free' form, as in free from bonding to glycerol? as that's what the experts say on another forum.

AL123

Posts : 101
Join date : 2012-04-20

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: an ideal EFA composition of a topical oil/ safflower more effective than finasteride

Post  LawOfThelema on Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:58 pm

Buy bryans free form fatty acids. He said he bought some from a chemical company about a decade or so ago and never used them.

LawOfThelema

Posts : 949
Join date : 2012-05-17

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: an ideal EFA composition of a topical oil/ safflower more effective than finasteride

Post  AL123 on Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:28 pm

LawOfThelema wrote:Buy bryans free form fatty acids. He said he bought some from a chemical company about a decade or so ago and never used them.
how can we turn them into free form?

AL123

Posts : 101
Join date : 2012-04-20

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: an ideal EFA composition of a topical oil/ safflower more effective than finasteride

Post  AL123 on Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:39 pm

bump..for discussion.

AL123

Posts : 101
Join date : 2012-04-20

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: an ideal EFA composition of a topical oil/ safflower more effective than finasteride

Post  AL123 on Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:31 pm

bump...

AL123

Posts : 101
Join date : 2012-04-20

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: an ideal EFA composition of a topical oil/ safflower more effective than finasteride

Post  despacio on Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:17 am

How about Lard?

Fat composition
Saturated fats 38–43%:
Palmitic acid: 25–28%
Stearic acid: 12–14%
Myristic acid: 1%
Unsaturated fats 56–62%
Monounsaturated fats 47–50%:
Oleic acid: 44–47%
Palmitoleic acid: 3%
Polyunsaturated fats Linoleic acid: 6–10%

Check out this study:

http://scholarsresearchlibrary.com/DPL-vol3-iss1/DPL-2011-3-1-99-102.pdf

despacio

Posts : 24
Join date : 2011-09-03

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: an ideal EFA composition of a topical oil/ safflower more effective than finasteride

Post  Grub on Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:46 pm

I have been applying cold pressed, unrefined safflower oil and massaging into entire scalp before bed.. leaving it on all night and then shampooing clean in the morning.

As CS said it is a little messy but by applying it before bed and washing it out in the morning there is no need to go out with a greasy head.

Is there any harm in doing this every night?

Grub

Posts : 145
Join date : 2012-03-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: an ideal EFA composition of a topical oil/ safflower more effective than finasteride

Post  ferox on Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:45 am

so what oil combination is the best? And what do you mean by "infusing" ? how do you infuse the seeds into the oil?

ferox

Posts : 321
Join date : 2012-03-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: an ideal EFA composition of a topical oil/ safflower more effective than finasteride

Post  Crusher on Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:03 am

Didn't AL123 announce an update?

Crusher

Posts : 257
Join date : 2009-03-12

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: an ideal EFA composition of a topical oil/ safflower more effective than finasteride

Post  ferox on Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:37 am

Crusher wrote:Didn't AL123 announce an update?

I am also interested in that!

ferox

Posts : 321
Join date : 2012-03-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: an ideal EFA composition of a topical oil/ safflower more effective than finasteride

Post  ferox on Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:44 pm

bump!

Al, please give us an update!

ferox

Posts : 321
Join date : 2012-03-18

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: an ideal EFA composition of a topical oil/ safflower more effective than finasteride

Post  Joey Ramone on Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:13 am

There were some impressive results in this thread that never got bumped. Wonder what happened to the guy.

Joey Ramone

Posts : 158
Join date : 2010-02-02

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: an ideal EFA composition of a topical oil/ safflower more effective than finasteride

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 2 of 2 Previous  1, 2

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum