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Is osteoporosis reversal possible?

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Is osteoporosis reversal possible?

Post  MikeGore on Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:54 am

In order to prevent Osteoporosis I have bought my mother, vitamin k2, vitamin d3 supplements and magnesium oil.

There is currently very little sign of osteoporosis. Currently there are slight signs of osteoporosis on some of the fingers, which seem slightly bent.

Is it possible to reverse this, with these supplements or do they only work to prevent?

Thanks :-)

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Re: Is osteoporosis reversal possible?

Post  CausticSymmetry on Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:11 am

Sounds like osteoarthritis. Boron with K2 will help. Check into cut issues and also niacinamide

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Re: Is osteoporosis reversal possible?

Post  bobthebuilder on Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:15 am

MikeGore wrote:In order to prevent Osteoporosis I have bought my mother, vitamin k2, vitamin d3 supplements and magnesium oil.

There is currently very little sign of osteoporosis. Currently there are slight signs of osteoporosis on some of the fingers, which seem slightly bent.

Is it possible to reverse this, with these supplements or do they only work to prevent?

Thanks :-)

If your interested look up David Wolfe's work. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGb4e3Hljek and http://www.naturalnews.com/027660_David_Wolfe_bone_density.html

Be very careful with calcium, you will give your mother high blood pressure, high risk of heart disease, etc if the wrong form of calcium is ingested.
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Re: Is osteoporosis reversal possible?

Post  steventerrell on Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:46 pm

Not exactly. But you may be able to curb it. You can make fractures less likely by maintaining or improving your bone density.

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Re: Is osteoporosis reversal possible?

Post  MikeGore on Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:15 pm

The current supplement used is this one (http://www.solgar.com/solgarproducts/calcium-magnesium-boron-tablets.htm). Magnesium, calcium, boron. Is this good? Also, is it the right form of the calcium. Should I be worried, that she is taking calcium in her supplement.

Also. that boron, amount seems very small. Should I perhaps also buy a separate boron supplement. Is there risk of overdose, or side effects.

Also, do supplements like glucosamine and chondrotin, either alone or together, work to prevent or reverse osteoarthritis. Would a cream or supplement be better?

What else do I need? can anyone give me the full list please? :-)

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Re: Is osteoporosis reversal possible?

Post  rofl on Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:54 pm

dont quote me, but i seem to recall being told somewhere in my studies that to buffer pH calcium is 'stolen' from bones. So to keep calcium in ur bones instead of supplementing with calcium, use minerals such as potassium to raise pH.
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Re: Is osteoporosis reversal possible?

Post  MikeGore on Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:38 am

Hi,

I'm trying to find something that will help my mother. It's very frustrating to try to find a prevention or cure for osteoarthritis with relation to finger deformities. Almost every information I read on the internet is about inflammation and pain in the joints but the confusing thing is, treatment mentioned are not in regard to deformities. I read about information talking about pain medication and anti-inflammatory as if it is a cure for arthritis. There is no pain, only deformity. Most info is focused on pain relief, which I find very annoying because there is tons of information about NSAID pain medication as if its the cure. Why the heck would pain relief fix or prevent a deformity I will never understand.I'm looking for especially info about finger deformities. Most ostearthritis websites don't even mention the finger deformities for some reason.

What causes this and how does one prevent and reverse it? So far my mother has been using the following:

Vitamin D3
Vitamin K2
Magnesium
Boron
Glucosamine-Chondroiton
Krill Oil

The only thing I know left is niacinamide. Is there anything else?

But what is causing it? Other people my mothers age don't seem to have it. Howcome some people have it and others don't? Is it hormonal?

She is taking anti-depressants which I have tried to ween her off, but for now she is still taking them. Do anti-depressants cause finger deformities?

I think the supplements are not going to fix this problem though. There needs to be a device somewhere that allows the strengthening of the joints in the fingers. Anyone know of anything like this?

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Re: Is osteoporosis reversal possible?

Post  CausticSymmetry on Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:35 am

Don't forget silica.


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Re: Is osteoporosis reversal possible?

Post  sanderson on Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:21 am

In this paper the most significant biological and clinical aspects of a biopreparation made of chicken eggshells are reviewed. Eggshell powder is a natural source of calcium and other elements (e.g. strontium and fluorine) which may have a positive effect on bone metabolism. Experimental and clinical studies performed to date have shown a number of positive properties of eggshell powder, such as antirachitic effects in rats and humans. A positive effect was observed on bone density in animal models of postmenopausal osteoporosis in ovariectomized female rats. In vitro eggshell powder stimulates chondrocyte differentiation and cartilage growth. Clinical studies in postmenopausal women and women with senile osteoporosis showed that eggshell powder reduces pain and osteoresorption and increases mobility and bone density or arrests its loss. The bioavailability of calcium from this source, as tested in piglets, was similar or better than that of food grade purified calcium carbonate. Clinical and experimental studies showed that eggshell powder has positive effects on bone and cartilage and that it is suitable in the prevention and treatment of osteoporosis.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15018022


Based on the high calcium content, chicken egg shells are an interesting source of calcium. We studied the short-term effects on bone mineral density (BMD) of the lumbar spine and hip in 9 women and one man (mean age +/- SD, 63.9 +/- 8.1 years) with osteoporosis or osteopenia. Also the effects on pain and general well-being were monitored. Ten women (62.5 +/- 5.0 years) from a population study on BMD served as a control group. During a study period of 4-8 months, the intervention group consumed twice daily a dairy-based supplement which resulted in a daily intake of, among others, 3.0 g of egg shell powder, 400 IU of vitamin D3 and 400 mg of magnesium. BMD of the lumbar spine (anteroposterior (AP) and lateral (LA) position) and hip were measured by dual-energy X-ray absorptiometry. After the intervention period, BMDs of the lumbar spine, total proximal femur and trochanter were significantly (p < 0.05) increased with (median) 4.4%: (range) 1.7 to 10.4% (lumbar spine AP), 5.7%: -1.3 to 15.9% (lumbar spine LA), 2.2%: -1.9 to 9.4% (total proximal femur), 1.8%: -1.8 to 9.0% (trochanter). Within a period of 4 months, an important reduction in pain was reported and as a consequence an improvement in general well-being. In the control group, BMDs of the lumbar spine AP and of the femoral neck significantly decreased over a period of 8 months with -0.7% (-1.3 to 0.2%) and -0.9% (-2.4 to -0.1%) respectively. Six women of the intervention group continued to use the supplement on their own free will and without any check on compliance, up to 24 months. They consumed the supplement only once daily except for the last three months when they were asked to take the double dosage again. After 24 months BMDs did not differ from baseline. This study shows that egg shell powder is a source of bioavailable calcium. Furthermore, this pilot study indicates that the chicken egg shell powder enriched dairy-based supplement increases BMD of subjects with a low bone mass in the short term and as a consequence delays bone demineralisation for a longer period. (Tab. 3, Fig. 1, Ref. 23.)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10758743
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Re: Is osteoporosis reversal possible?

Post  MikeGore on Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:00 pm

I've been reading information regarding osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis and how actually they are an auto immune disorders. So another approach necessary to fight this is anti-inflammatory supplements. So far one of the best anti-inflammatory supplement seems to be curcumin (which has been mentioned for hair loss on this site many times anyway).

But I am still looking for something for the deformed fingers. I come across really horrible sites. The doctor goes on to talk about treatment and therapy, only to find out upon further reading that he is talking about surgery. Really hates those sites, that consider surgery and prescription drugs treatments. And they go on and on again about relieving the pain ffs. For the life of me I don't understand how doctors have managed to be so mind numbingly stupid, in an occupation that involves the well being of people. The idea that doctors are intelligent is definitely a myth because I've come across some stupid idiot doctors that always think they know best, when they don't know shit. It's so annoying seeing them talk about stuff like NSAIDs and predisnone, as if they are wonderful solutions. I remember I was probably 14 years old when I found out that NSAIDs are not really good for you. But people are so freaking obsessed about getting rid of pain, they seem to think it must be something wonderful. Watching videos about doctors giving presentations to MD students is really annoying. They mention their FDA backed bullshit medicines as if they are saviours. What a nightmarish world we live in. Brainwashed imbeciles which probably would have been better if they never became doctors in the first place.

I guess the good thing is there is no pain. Maybe that is a good sign, perhaps the many supplements I've advised my mother to take has helped. Which is what I always thought. If there is no pain does that mean its not getting worse?

We have found finger splints which seems useful. The only thing I want to find out is, do joints heal, cartilage regrow, and tendons and ligament somehow reattach itself if given all the right nutrients and kept in the finger splint. There is absolutely no information about this online.

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Re: Is osteoporosis reversal possible?

Post  MikeGore on Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:30 am

Okay I give up. There is no information online about arthritis related finger deformities treatment. None.

I tend to believe that everything has a natural solution and cure. Healing these joints, tendon, ligaments whatever is causing the bent fingers should be possible, but there is practically no information online about this.

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Re: Is osteoporosis reversal possible?

Post  sanderson on Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:35 am

MikeGore wrote:Okay I give up. There is no information online about arthritis related finger deformities treatment. None.

I tend to believe that everything has a natural solution and cure. Healing these joints, tendon, ligaments whatever is causing the bent fingers should be possible, but there is practically no information online about this.

Im pretty sure what i posted is something that will help massively
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Re: Is osteoporosis reversal possible?

Post  MikeGore on Tue Nov 04, 2014 12:46 pm

Thanks for that post sanderson.

But I'd like to believe that similar to putting a broke arm in a cast that would heal, the same can be done for these fingers.

I've read in a number of places that joints are not like bones though and do not heal well because they have limited blood supply.

THe problem is at this point, we don't even know what the cause of the bent fingers are. Perhaps the cartilage is in tact which is why there is no pain. Or the supplements is really helping with the inflammation and getting rid of the pain, I dunno.

I think it will need to be examined first, something that doctors don't seem to care to do. But put it simply, its seems like joint instability of the finger joints which may have ruptured tendons or ligaments that is causing it to look bent.

They haven't gotten better over the years, so why would they now? The only difference now is the splinting and some additional supplements I have found.

Also, anyone ever heard of Super Cissus? It is mentioned as the only supplement that actually repairs tendons and ligaments.

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Re: Is osteoporosis reversal possible?

Post  Odysseus on Tue Nov 04, 2014 1:03 pm

Cissus and bones

Preliminary studies hint that Cissus may help build bones –in rats and maybe in people . So far, the research is limited mostly to lab animals and test tubes . No study to date has demonstrated that Cissus can rebuild bone or reverse osteoporosis in humans.

That said, it is because of the preliminary research mentioned that Cissus may be found in supplements for osteoporosis.
http://supplement-geek.com/cissus-quadrangularis-review/

http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-1166-cissus%20quadrangularis.aspx?activeingredientid=1166&activeingredientname=cissus%20quadrangularis
How does it work?
There is not enough information to know how Cissus quadrangularis might work for medicinal purposes in people. Test tube studies and research in animals show that it has antioxidant, analgesic, and anti-inflammatory properties. It might have activity against the organism that causes malaria.

A paper published in the World Journal of Gastroenterology in October 2010, on conflicts of interest in alternative weight loss product research, noted that at least three studies supported the safety and effectiveness of CQ for weight loss, but "lack financial disclosures or funding sources, beyond mentioning that the CQ being tested was provided by" General Health Alliances, an herbal products manufacturer. The studies did not disclose that one of its authors was a chief scientific officer for GHA that holds a patent on a CQ product.[5]

C. quadrangularis has been studied for its effects in a rat model for osteoporosis.[6]

C. quadrangularis has been studied in animal models of bone fracture.[7]

Its bactericidal effects on Helicobacter pylori indicate a potential use for treating gastric ulcers in conjunction with NSAID therapy.[8]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cissus_quadrangularis

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Re: Is osteoporosis reversal possible?

Post  CausticSymmetry on Tue Nov 04, 2014 1:45 pm

MikeGore wrote:Okay I give up. There is no information online about arthritis related finger deformities treatment. None.

I tend to believe that everything has a natural solution and cure. Healing these joints, tendon, ligaments whatever is causing the bent fingers should be possible, but there is practically no information online about this.

There are treatments for this, it is reversible. The real problem here though is that in order to get real headway, it requires a large feat that most people are unwilling to deal with.

It's a significant lifestyle change/modification. Any particular monotherapy is unlikely to make any significant impact.



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Re: Is osteoporosis reversal possible?

Post  102 on Wed Nov 05, 2014 3:40 am

Increase calcium in the diet relative to phosphorus, and at the same time the ratio of calcium:vitamin D needs to be balanced. Increasing calcium requires a greater and proportional intake of vitamin D and K at the same time.

Also, bone formation is heavily influenced by the load bearing experienced by the bone. Osteoporosis has been shown to be inhibited by consistent weight bearing exercise. Find ways to safely place stresses on the bone. This does not necessarily require movement at the joint. You could theoretically get this (in the bones of the hip and leg, for example) by standing under a bar statically with a challenging amount of weight (but not dangerous amount).

On the subject of arthritis, it is worsened by exposure to some dietary proteins, such as casein in milk. People can get improvement by cutting these things out of the diet. If I was worried, I'd be cutting any casein- or gluten- containing food out.

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Re: Is osteoporosis reversal possible?

Post  MikeGore on Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:07 am

Thank you so much for those responses.

It's good to hear that things can be done.

As difficult as it is lifestyle changes for diet should be probably be adopted and I will suggest this strongly to my mother.

I think one reason that there is little information about finger deformities is because most arthritis sufferers have problems with pain.

I'm considering buying one of those ultrasound therapy devices in the future since they are said to promote blood circulation and healing.

Are there any other method of increasing blood circulation to this joints? Hot water, or topical stuff? Probably same as the hair solutions I guess.

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Re: Is osteoporosis reversal possible?

Post  102 on Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:51 am

As far as pain prevention/remedies and treating the problem once its become significant, I'm not the person to ask here.

But what I would do, without question, would be eliminate anything that could be creating an inflammatory immunological response - at least what you can control.

The problem, as others have mentioned, is that it requires a great deal of work, discipline, and sorting through minutia - not to mention the very difficult task of organizing such that you can create entirely new eating habits, meaning food preparation and different habits for shopping, etc. Its something you've got to sit down and plan out concretely and just make it happen until it becomes normal, everyday habit.

Again, I'd cut out every food that contains casein and gluten. Period. If I could I'd also remove corn-containing anything, including HFCS.

The elephant in the room is that this pretty much includes anything processed. That means a diet of almost exclusively quality fruits, vegetables, meats and animal fats, and some more obscure grains, perhaps quinoa (I personally think its a good alternative). Besides the difficulty of trying to incorporate this dietary filter into your lifestyle, you also have the pain and fear of parting with things which we've mostly grown up eating and have developed very fond relationships with, like soda/pop, baked deserts, pastas, you name it.

Besides that, the other most important thing afaic is controlling the fatty acid makeup of the diet. Aiming for a 4:1 or 3:1 ratio of omega-6 to omega-3 is absolutely huge. It gets talked about a lot but I doubt if people actually give this due diligence. Its a game changer. But again, the work involved isn't trivial. You've got to use online tools to tally up the fatty acids in your "food pool" and sum it all up. See what you can substitute, delete. Or find ways to increase omega-3 with things like fish oil or flax oil, or what have you. SELF nutrition has a tool with pretty thorough descriptions of various foods, including the omega-3 and 6 content.

First come up with a list of foods you (or whoever) enjoys that are devoid of the things we mentioned. Then come up with meals based on those foods. Then put together a schedule of eating for a week, or two weeks. Something repeatable. (Whatever monotony exists in the diet is outweighed by the health benefits). Then start calculating. Input the foods you'll eat for three days at a time (or a week at a time). Find out what your 3:6 ratio is. Try to replace with foods higher in 3's to bring your ratio of n-6:n-3 fa's as close to 4:1 as possible. Its not so much about absolute levels of these...the ratio is most important. So that means using things to increase your omega-3 relative to 6 is viable, without having to lower n-6 to impossible levels. When I come up short, I use oils rich in 3 to supplement and bring the ratio closer to ideal.

But eating a diet full of processed foods makes this task virtually impossible. You'll find that eating a diet of clean foods actually makes hitting this target much simpler. Of course, doing the work to analyze the diet is always a monotonous chore. So its about how strong your impetus is.

Besides that, antioxidant therapy with plenty of vitamin C and E. Getting more D3 and K2, and animal-form A. Stay mineralized. Using a trace mineral supplement is good. Get enough iodine. Take an acid supplement (and perhaps an enzyme blend) with meals to aid digestion.

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Re: Is osteoporosis reversal possible?

Post  MikeGore on Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:44 pm

I am frustrated about the lack of information regarding osteoarthritis and deformity in fingers. Tons of websites online going on about what causes arthritis, but nothing about a solution. And if you don't have pain in your fingers they don't consider it arthritis, even though the deformity is caused by the arthritis. Freaking upsetting. What is the cure! To strengthen those fingers and straighten them, and rebuild the cartilage that is gone.

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Re: Is osteoporosis reversal possible?

Post  long hair on Sat Jan 09, 2016 1:39 am

does she drink coffee or cola confused ...this can lower bone density in women.

http://health.clevelandclinic.org/2014/09/sodas-tea-and-coffee-which-can-lower-your-bone-density/

you must search for exercise to deform them again ..may be there is a former for fingers Rolling Eyes .
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Re: Is osteoporosis reversal possible?

Post  CausticSymmetry on Sat Jan 09, 2016 4:02 am

The treatment does exist and it's been around for a very long time. In many cases the best treatments are not the latest, but just forgotten studies (that have no patent) or drug.

Niacinamide A half-century ago, William Kaufman, MD, described his results using niacinamide in the treatment of several hundred patients with Osteoarthritis. 

The dosage was 900 to 4,000 mg per day, depending on the degree of impairment of range of motion of the joints. Treatment with niacinamide usually resulted in an increase in joint mobility (measured objectively), as well as subjective improvements in joint discomfort, inflammation, and pain. Improvement with niacinamide therapy usually did not occur until after three to four weeks of treatment. Thereafter, progressive improvement occurred for one to three years if niacinamide was continued. Some patients receiving long-term niacinamide treatment maintained improved joint function (as demonstrated by an increase in joint range index) for as long as twenty years.

However, patients who stopped taking the vitamin gradually reverted to their pre-treatment status. Because Kaufman’s study lacked a control group, the possibility of a placebo effect cannot be ruled out. However, a double-blind study by Jonas et al, tended to support Kaufman’s observations.

In that study, 72 patients with OA of at least five years’ duration were randomly assigned to receive niacinamide (500 mg six times per day) or a placebo for 12 weeks. 

Outcome measures included global arthritis impact, pain, joint mobility, and erythrocyte sedimentation rate (ESR). Global arthritis impact improved by 29 percent in patients receiving niacinamide and worsened by 10 percent in patients given placebo (p = 0.04 for difference between groups). 

Although pain levels were no different in the two groups, patients on niacinamide reduced their anti-inflammatory medication by 13 percent, compared with a slight increase in medication in the placebo group (p = 0.014 for difference between groups). 

Niacinamide reduced the ESR by 22 percent compared with placebo (p < 0.005) and increased joint mobility (as measured by the joint range index) by 8.0 degrees, compared with 3.5 degrees in the placebo group (p = 0.04). Niacinamide’s delayed onset of action, its capacity to induce progressive improvement, and its gradual (as opposed to abrupt) loss of effect after treatment is discontinued, suggest this vitamin somehow helps control OA, rather than merely relieving symptoms. 

Niacinamide effects prostaglandins and offers anti-inflammatory action. 

Kaufman observed niacinamide was most effective when taken in frequent, divided doses. Thus, 250 mg taken six times per day was more effective than 500 mg taken three times per day. The need for frequent dosing is presumably related to the short half-life of the vitamin. 

Sustained-release forms of niacinamide are commercially available, and some practitioners have found them to be an acceptable alternative to more-frequent dosing with regular niacinamide.

Here is a form of sustained-release, because typical niacinamide requires multiple dosing throughout the day, this one makes it a lot easier. 

http://www.iherb.com/Nature-s-Plus-Niacinamide-1000-mg-90-Tablets/24199

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Re: Is osteoporosis reversal possible?

Post  MikeGore on Sat Jan 09, 2016 4:55 am

Thanks for those replies. That's impressive CS. Maybe I should buy a separate niacinamide, the sustained-release form.

The good thing is I do believe the arthritis is largely stopped and slowed down since there is no pain, thanks to the advice given here on the forum and you CS. Currently she is taking Vitamin K2, D3, Magnesium, Glucosamine, Chondroitin, MSM, Boron, Curcumin, a good multivitamin that does include the niacinamide (but that bottle has finished hasn't taken that in a while and also the krill oil which has been a while since last bottle). It doesn't look like its something that can be reversed with supplements though, unless it truly is a remarkable one. What makes the fingers look deformed? Lost cartilage? If cartilage is restored, will that straighten the fingers and tighten the joint into place?, normalizing everthing, including how it looks?

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Re: Is osteoporosis reversal possible?

Post  Reborn Hair PPP on Sat Jan 09, 2016 1:32 pm

MikeGore wrote:Thanks for those replies. That's impressive CS. Maybe I should buy a separate niacinamide, the sustained-release form.

The good thing is I do believe the arthritis is largely stopped and slowed down since there is no pain, thanks to the advice given here on the forum and you CS. Currently she is taking Vitamin K2, D3, Magnesium, Glucosamine, Chondroitin, MSM, Boron, Curcumin, a good multivitamin that does include the niacinamide (but that bottle has finished hasn't taken that in a while and also the krill oil which has been a while since last bottle). It doesn't look like its something that can be reversed with supplements though, unless it truly is a remarkable one. What makes the fingers look deformed? Lost cartilage? If cartilage is restored, will that straighten the fingers and tighten the joint into place?, normalizing everthing, including how it looks?

Hey Mike,

Sorry this is kinda off this forum's topic, but any promising results using the Takeda Medex Scalp Tension reliever (http://takeda-medex.com/shop/products/detail.php?product_id=4)

I was thinking of purchasing one and came across your posts, but I wanted to see if you got any good results.

Thanks!

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Re: Is osteoporosis reversal possible?

Post  Joey Ramone on Sun Jan 10, 2016 11:50 pm

Look up Katy Bowman and Restorative Exercise, particularly her book Move Your DNA which talks quite a bit about osteoarthritis and osteoperosis. Going gluten free has also helped my parents a great deal.

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Re: Is osteoporosis reversal possible?

Post  CausticSymmetry on Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:15 pm

MikeGore wrote:Thanks for those replies. That's impressive CS. Maybe I should buy a separate niacinamide, the sustained-release form.

The good thing is I do believe the arthritis is largely stopped and slowed down since there is no pain, thanks to the advice given here on the forum and you CS. Currently she is taking Vitamin K2, D3, Magnesium, Glucosamine, Chondroitin, MSM, Boron, Curcumin, a good multivitamin that does include the niacinamide (but that bottle has finished hasn't taken that in a while and also the krill oil which has been a while since last bottle). It doesn't look like its something that can be reversed with supplements though, unless it truly is a remarkable one. What makes the fingers look deformed? Lost cartilage? If cartilage is restored, will that straighten the fingers and tighten the joint into place?, normalizing everthing, including how it looks?

Given the nature of this condition would try her on a full bottle of the following and see if it makes a difference (this is quite helpful for OA of the hand).

http://www.iherb.com/Natrol-Cetyl-Pure-120-Capsules/5568

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