Confused about types of magnesium

I have a bottle of orotate (discontinued/back-ordered) on the way from iherb, but I wanted to buy some to take in the mean time because I don't know how long it will take to get here. So I go to Longs pharmacy and look at what Nature Made has (a brand that I thought was decent). They only sell mag oxide, WTF!? How can they live with themselves selling such a shit product? So they had a two for one special on the brand Radiance mag citrate. I bought two. I came home and looked up mag citrate and it seems that it's bioavailability is higher than oxide, but it is still referred to as a laxative product which means that it isn't being absorbed. Other sites say that citrate is pretty bioavailable, but I don't want to crack the bottle not knowing for sure. I couldn't find any other types of mag in the pharmacy. What is strange as well is that mag orotate is not mentioned on most mag sites I went to. Is it a fairly new type of mag? Why is it looked passed? Iherb has discontinued it (probably due to lack of sales), but if it is the most bioavailable, then why has it not caught on? Something seems to be missing. George Eby doesn't mention it from what I've read on that web page either. IH can you shed some light on this and perhaps tell me what the "next best" form of magnesium would be next to mag orotate? Thanks

http://www.1fast400.com/a32_Magnesium_Function.html says this:

3. What form of magnesium is best?

Magnesium is available in many forms, most of which are highly bioavailable. The exception is magnesium oxide, which has very low bioavailability (11). Magnesium citrate, chloride, lactate, and aspartate all have high bioavailability (11, 12), with citrate being the highest. Magnesium may have lower bioavailability when taken with calcium, but the combination is often recommended because taking both together helps to prevent excesses of one or the other.

Do you agree IH?

JHarsh80 - Our bodies were never designed to compensate for a Magnesium deficiency, but it is very well regulated on the calcium front, hence the Parathyroid Gland. All the parathyroid gland does is regulate calcium.

Magnesium Orotate is better known for "professional use," but it is the best Magnesium. Most of the good stuff of everything is not well publicized and not advertised, nor are they available in stores. The orotate minerals are most famous related to Dr. Hans Nieper of Hanover Germany. He used Orotate minerals for various medical conditions.

I never buy anything in stores with a few exceptions, since retail is always over priced and rarely are the products uncommonly good.

Locally, the best Magnesium other than Orotate is Magnesium Aspartate and Magnesium Taurinate.

Here's a few of the more recent studies that involve Mag Orotate:

Exp Gerontol. 2008 Jul;43(7):653-7.
Targeting oxidative stress in surgery: Effects of ageing and therapy.

In the current era cardiac surgeons are being called upon to operate upon older, sicker patients. The effect is to augment oxidative stress and increase the rate of post-operative complications and ultimately mortality. We have developed antioxidant-based pre-treatment regimes initially based on coenzyme Q(10). A randomised trial of coenzyme Q(10) in elective cardiac surgery patients demonstrated augmented plasma and cardiac mitochondrial membrane coenzyme Q(10) content, improved mitochondrial respiration and increased myocardial tolerance of oxidative stress. The addition of omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids, alpha-lipoic acid, selenium and magnesium orotate in a second clinical trial, improved post-operative recovery with demonstrable reductions in myocardial damage, rate of atrial fibrillation and length of hospital stay. Finally we performed a pilot study of this combined metabolic therapy regimen to which we added preoperative physical exercise and mental stress reduction with indications of further improvements in post-operative recovery. We conclude that simultaneously targeting a number of key deficiencies with a metabolic formulation prior to surgery results in peri- and post-operative clinical and economic benefits.


Int J Cardiol. 2008 Feb 15.
Magnesium orotate in severe congestive heart failure (MACH).

BACKGROUND: Aim of this study was to evaluate adjuvant magnesium orotate on mortality and clinical symptoms in patients with severe heart failure under optimal cardiovascular medication. METHODS: In a monocentric, controlled, double-blind study, 79 patients with severe congestive heart failure (NYHA IV) under optimal medical cardiovascular treatment were randomised to receive either magnesium orotate (6000 mg for 1 month, 3000 mg for about 11 months, n=40) or placebo (n=39). Both groups were comparable in demographic data, duration of heart failure and pre- and concomitant treatment. RESULTS: After mean treatment duration of 1 year (magnesium orotate: 364.1+/-14.7 days, placebo: 361.2+/-12.7 days) the survival rate was 75.7% compared to 51.6% under placebo (p<0.05). Clinical symptoms improved in 38.5% of patients under magnesium orotate, whereas they deteriorated in 56.3% of patients under placebo (p<0.001). CONCLUSION: Magnesium orotate may be used as adjuvant therapy in patients on optimal treatment for severe congestive heart failure, increasing survival rate and improving clinical symptoms and patient's quality of life.

CausticSymmetry wrote:JHarsh80 - Our bodies were never designed to compensate for a Magnesium deficiency, but it is very well regulated on the calcium front, hence the Parathyroid Gland. All the parathyroid gland does is regulate calcium.

IH. Are you implying that magnesium SHOULD be supplemented because unlike say...calcium, where it will be taken from the bones if there is a deficiency; there is no way for the body to compensate for a mag def? Will iodine affect the parathyroid or just the thyroid? George Eby says that if you are treating depression, you should restrict all calcium supplementation and supplement magnesium. I'm getting kind of confused as to what is going to be going on if I don't supplement calcium (or drink milk), take magnesium, and then add iodine into the mix.

JHarsh80 - That's correct, the body has no compensatory mechanism for a Magnesium shortage, so most of us, due to poor magnesium content in the soils, or magnesium leaching carbohydrates, sugars, etc. will lead to a need for more.

Note that where milk is consumed in the greatest amounts, there is an association with osteoporosis. Of course, that is because most milk is pasteurized which inactivates the alkaline phosphatase enzyme.

Also, some countries with the lowest dietary calcium intake have the lowest occurrence of osteoporosis, although that has to do with lots of vitamin D and other factors.

Will iodine effect the parathyroid? No.

That's good to know. It seems like calcium is overemphasized? If you need not even supplement calcium for osteoperosis, what is calcium supplementation good for? I recall reading George Eby's page about calcification in the body due to too much calcium. I don't remember what he said exactly but the gist was that magnesium is more important than calcium for bones.

Calcium deposits can occur when there is a lack of Magnesium and the other major factor is low levels of Vitamin K2 or menaquinones. Calcification of the soft tissues and arteries occurs with poor flora, which is what makes vitamin K2.

Hi CS, in another post, you mentioned if too much Mag Orotate consumed you create a mag deficienty, so whats the right quantity recommended?? thanks in advance.

2560 - Actually that doesn't apply to Magnesium Orotate. Only other forms of Magnesium.

The reason other forms, particulary the oxide form is that it will flush it out.

Thanks CS, for the clarification, there are many subtlies to remember, regarding vitamins and minerals and there dosages.

Caustic you may have mentioned this another post regarding calcium deposits/fibrosis but in summary if one has this problem what would be a good approach? You meantioned before these deposits can be 'broken down'

I think i'm all clear but it would be good know anyway...

2560 - I just bought a new computer today and wow, I can't "repair" windows, so had to put my hard drive back into the old computer...oh well...anyway I'm back on line, whew!

As far as subtleties go, it depends various factors, but to simplify, if you're getting an optimal dosage of minerals and vitamins there are a couple catagories to consider.

synthetic isolates verses whole food sources. Of the synthetic isolates, when it comes to b vitamins, it's best to opt for the "active" forms.

Methylcobalamin instead of Cyanocobalamin, Hydroxyl 5-Phosphate instead of only Pyridoxal hydrochloride. There's better forms of folate, and when it comes to B-complex, it can get complicated. There are more active forms of Thiamine, having plenty of choline in the diet will enhance the activity of the rest of the b-complex.

On the whole food versions, I'm quite partial to New Chapter, since they literally "grow" their vitamins using cultures. This is ideal since it will be the entire complex in its natural state.

When synthetic isolates are compared to whole food version, the differences are staggering under a microscope.

The reason activated synthetic isolates are better than standard isolates is there is no enzyme activity needed to convert them, so if the body is under a dis-eased state, the vitamins in active form will work much better, than standard isolates.

Then it comes down to dosages, and that in itself depends on conditionally essential periods.

Back to whole food based...., the only draw back here is the price. New Chapter is quite expensive. But then, so is something like Ortho-Core which is kind of premium, but that one isn't quite perfect. I haven't found anything really complete.

isaac - On fibrosis. A Magnesium shortage can contribute to fibrosis. Also glycation, which is when sugars cross link with glucose. The regimen is design to prevent fibrosis from occurring. What about reversal?

Magnesium oil can help in theory, as it can diffuse calcium. Calcium build up in related to fibrosis. Taurine is also an anti-fibrotic. DMSO to an extend is anti-fibrotic, so is iodine. I've often wondered what would happen if we applied DMSO mixed with SSKI on our scalps.

The reason I wonder this is because DMSO mixed with SSKI (Super Saturated Potassium Iodide) is a treatment used at home for Dupuytren's contracture and Peyronie's disease, which are diseases related to too much hardened collagen build-up.

Isn't it ironic that as we age collagen degrades in your facial skin due to various factors, and it builds up in your scalp dermis where we don't want it? It's almost humorous how it seemingly 'migrates' north and we get wrinkles and go bald! Isn't that about a bitch? So we have people injecting collagen into their faces because they neglected them by not using sunscreen and letting free radicals run rampant. Why the hell can't the elasticity stay in our faces where we want it?

How to get more wrinkles or better, how to get less of them.

Cigarette smoke increases the expression of MMP-12, which is a protein that breaks down elastase.

HMG CoA reductase inhibiters increases MMP-12 expression. In English that means statin drugs such as Lipitor, Zocor, Vytorin, Zetia and the rest of the poisons in that category accelerate wrinkling.

Ecklonia cava helps preserve skin elasticity by increasing elastase. It also inhibits MMP-1 (interstitial collagenase) and MMP-9 ( gelatinase B). Great for hair and terrific for skin.

Neptune Krill Oil, if I remember correctly preserves skin 55% than placebo.

Hardened collagen is something that occurs during periods of hypoxia or low oxygen. This is primarily the cause of hardened collagen in the arteries and part of the relationship between heart disease and hair loss in the vertex area.

How to get fibrosis? Eating refined foods (without taking supplements) that breakdown too quickly into glucose, causing rapid rise in insulin is the cause of glycation which leads to fibrosis.