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Dermarollers. Good, bad, or just plain useless?

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Dermarollers. Good, bad, or just plain useless?

Post  Growdamnit on Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:43 am

What's everyone's take on dermarollers? Do they work? Have people gained any ground from it? Let's settle this, so we don't have to waste everyone's time.

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Re: Dermarollers. Good, bad, or just plain useless?

Post  AS54 on Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:56 am

Hey Grow,

I've been using a dermaroller on my face for several months now. As of yet, I haven't noticed anything drastic, but then again I didn't have to many wrinkles or anything like that I was trying to repair to begin with. So its difficult for me to say concretely whether the dermaroller is effective. I think in theory, it should be effective at doing what it's promoted to do: increase collagen. By inciting the wound healing response, I can't see a reason why it wouldn't be capable of doing this. Whether its enough to substantially improve skin condition, I can't be sure. It would probably be better to see if it has been effective for an older guy or gal, who may have a few wrinkles they are trying to repair.

I also think it could marginally increase the delivery of topicals. The thing is that the pores you are creating with the needles are quite small and more than likely close as quickly as they were opened. But there may be some residual benefit from their creation, particularly if the topical is applied just prior to rolling.

In my mind (itzmecorey has spurred the thought for me) its worth exploring some of the deliver methods used in some of the medicated gels. Androgel for example uses a special type of gel that enhances absorption. If we could find a way to tap into that, we'd probably enhance the effectiveness of our topicals quite a bit.

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Re: Dermarollers. Good, bad, or just plain useless?

Post  whodathunkit on Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:14 am

Anthony, what size needle are you using? Are you using any actives? Particularly if you're not using longer needles, there won't be any benefits unless you're  using the right actives (vitamin C, vitamin A, CP's, etc.).

Grow, dermarolling has been proven to substantially improve skin condition but you have to do it right.  Also, not much benefit unless you've already got some wrinkles.  Anthony's 24, not sure he's the age bracket yet to see results.

Consensus/settling will be difficult to achieve.  Even the experts vary on their preferred technique (deeper, less frequent rolls; deeper, more frequent rolls; shallow needles, more frequent rolls, etc.) and most of the effort necessary to declare needling a success has been concentrated on women's faces.  I think needling the head will be most useful for getting the max out of any actives you're using, be they growth factors/stem cells, CP's, whatever. Based on what I know right now growth factors with needling probably hold the highest hope for those of us suffering from hairloss. But I'm not an expert, so take that with a grain of salt. It's just an opinion.

Skin should be clean and disinfected before rolling and then actives applied later but not necessarily right after. Like wait about 20 minutes.  The skin will still be permeable but the needle channels will have closed sufficiently so that not "everything" gets in.  "Everything" is not necessarily a good thing.  Most potions have some nasties in them along with the good stuff.  

Consensus seems to be that if you're not doing medical needling (1.0mm - 2.0mm needles) for deep collagen induction, 0.2mm or 0.3mm is sufficient to pierce the stratum corneum and allow actives to work more effectively.  You can do shorter needles one or two times per week.

Be careful cleaning and sterilizing the roller after you roll and before using it.  On another forum I read about one woman got a staph infection from not cleaning her roller properly.

I recently revived my interest in needling for collagen induction, which is why I come up with all this now.   Haven't tried it on my head yet, though.  I bought a couple of dermastamps for that, but am trying to find the time and gumption.  Needling hurts, even with topical anesthetic.

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Re: Dermarollers. Good, bad, or just plain useless?

Post  BOSCO on Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:01 am

I don't know if dermarollers work but I'm giving it a try anyway.  I tried Ferox brushing but I became alarmed seeing too many hairs on my brush.  I decided to try dermarolling instead. I'm using a .5 mm roller.  I've only been using it a couple of months now so it's too soon to tell.

A couple of weeks ago I decided to dig in a little harder with the roller.  When I looked at my scalp in the mirror I saw blood red lines all over my scalp.  It was deeply red enough that I thought I had drawn blood but when rubbed my finger over the wounded areas, there was no blood on my finger.  I was still concerned but when I looked in the mirror about 20 minutes later everything looked normal.  No blood red lines anywhere.

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Re: Dermarollers. Good, bad, or just plain useless?

Post  4039 on Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:05 am

Only using a dermaroller helped me refill in my temples. My advice is don't go above 1mm for hair (I use .75mm) and clean your dermaroller before each use.

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Re: Dermarollers. Good, bad, or just plain useless?

Post  Growdamnit on Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:03 pm

So, is it generally a good thing to NOT go over 1mm? It seems like they work, too. I only have loss on my temples and that's what I'm looking to grow back.

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Re: Dermarollers. Good, bad, or just plain useless?

Post  alphadelta on Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:56 pm

long time ago i read the nicehair ebook in there it recommended 0.5 mm needles :


What Dermaroller Needle Size do you Need for Hair
Regrowth?
The needle size you need is a minimum of 0.5mm. Bigger is arguably better, but 0.5mm is
the optimum size you need to achieve the increase in blood circulation around the dormant
hair follicles. Any smaller and the results will be less significant and any larger will not
achieve particularly better results.

Here's what one of the manufacturers recommends based on their research:
After evaluation of all of the biopsies in Dr Schwarz’s study,
new collagen fibers were only found close to the corium and
not deeper than 0.5 to 0.6 mm. Although the Dermaroller
model MF8 has 1.5 mm long needles, no significant new
collagen and elastin formation could be found in the sub-
dermal tissue.

6 weeks after micro-needling, collagen and elastin fibers are
increased by 1000% and to a depth of 0.5 to 0.6 mm
Although we do not know much about the mechanisms of the
Dermaroller and how its needles induce such a dramatic
amount of collagen in a short session... ...we have scientific
proof that the needling procedure triggers new collagen
fibers, new melanozyts, stimulates re-vascularization, hair
growth, evening in scars (Camirand), re-pigments stretch
marks, fills depressed acne scars, softens scars and so on.
Quality needles do not damage the skin in the sense of a
classical injury. The pricking channels close within 60 to 90
minutes and infections therefore are unlikely.

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Re: Dermarollers. Good, bad, or just plain useless?

Post  4039 on Fri Aug 16, 2013 2:19 am

Great information alphadelta. I found .75mm just slightly more effective for hair growth than .50mm. Amazing the increase in dermaroller information since my last search a few years ago. Back then dermarollers were cost prohibitive; now you can get quality rollers inexpensively from China.


Last edited by 4039 on Fri Aug 16, 2013 2:31 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Dermarollers. Good, bad, or just plain useless?

Post  hadrion on Fri Aug 16, 2013 2:28 am

I bought a 1mm roller to try out on my head, but haven't worked up the nerve to use it just yet. I'm concerned about disinfecting the roller needles properly.

Any tips on cleaning/disinfecting the needles?

I was planning on giving it a go with Rejuvaplex to see how it works.


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Re: Dermarollers. Good, bad, or just plain useless?

Post  whodathunkit on Fri Aug 16, 2013 3:40 am

hadrion wrote:I bought a 1mm roller to try out on my head, but haven't worked up the nerve to use it just yet. I'm concerned about disinfecting the roller needles properly.

Any tips on cleaning/disinfecting the needles?

I was planning on giving it a go with Rejuvaplex to see how it works.

Immediately after rolling, swish in a large bowl of hot, soapy water for a few minutes.  Be VERY, VERY CAREFUL NOT TO HIT THE NEEDLES ON THE SIDE OF THE BOWL.  This may bend your needles, even a little bit.  You dont' want that.  Check to see any dried blood, etc. is not on the roller before rinsing.

Rinse thoroughly under hot tap water.

Then soak the roller head in some isopropyl or ethyl alchohol (I prefer grain/ethyl alcohol but YMMV) for a few hours or overnight.  Best way to do this is to put some cotton or fabric in the bottom of a small juice glass then fill with alcohol to just over the roller head.  Be very, very careful not to bend any needles (hence the padding in the bottom of the glass).  Chloramine-T (I think that's what it's called) or any other medical disinfectant for medical equipment can also be used instead of alcohol.

Store the roller in it's container with the head up (head down invites bent needles).  When you're ready to use it again, wash and re-disinfect per directions above (except you don't have to soak in alcohol for hours, just a couple minutes will suffice because the device isn't really "dirty" to begin with).

I never use a new roller or needles out of a sterile package without washing & sterilising them first myself, regardless of whether the unopened pack is supposed to be sterile or not.

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Re: Dermarollers. Good, bad, or just plain useless?

Post  hadrion on Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:50 am

whodathunkit wrote:
hadrion wrote:I bought a 1mm roller to try out on my head, but haven't worked up the nerve to use it just yet. I'm concerned about disinfecting the roller needles properly.

Any tips on cleaning/disinfecting the needles?

I was planning on giving it a go with Rejuvaplex to see how it works.

Immediately after rolling, swish in a large bowl of hot, soapy water for a few minutes.  Be VERY, VERY CAREFUL NOT TO HIT THE NEEDLES ON THE SIDE OF THE BOWL.  This may bend your needles, even a little bit.  You dont' want that.  Check to see any dried blood, etc. is not on the roller before rinsing.

Rinse thoroughly under hot tap water.

Then soak the roller head in some isopropyl or ethyl alchohol (I prefer grain/ethyl alcohol but YMMV) for a few hours or overnight.  Best way to do this is to put some cotton or fabric in the bottom of a small juice glass then fill with alcohol to just over the roller head.  Be very, very careful not to bend any needles (hence the padding in the bottom of the glass).  Chloramine-T (I think that's what it's called) or any other medical disinfectant for medical equipment can also be used instead of alcohol.

Store the roller in it's container with the head up (head down invites bent needles).  When you're ready to use it again, wash and re-disinfect per directions above (except you don't have to soak in alcohol for hours, just a couple minutes will suffice because the device isn't really "dirty" to begin with).

I never use a new roller or needles out of a sterile package without washing & sterilising them first myself, regardless of whether the unopened pack is supposed to be sterile or not.
Thanks. Appreciate the advice. Hopefully, Isopropyl will work as I have lots of that in the house.

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Re: Dermarollers. Good, bad, or just plain useless?

Post  diffuse on Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:04 pm

Has any tried dermarolling areas of scalp that still have some hair (diffuse thinning)? What length is suggested for those? I'm thinking 0.75 or 1.

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Re: Dermarollers. Good, bad, or just plain useless?

Post  dreft on Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:04 am

4039 wrote:Only using a dermaroller helped me refill in my temples. My advice is don't go above 1mm for hair (I use .75mm) and clean your dermaroller before each use.
Hi 4039,

Why do you advice not going above 1mm?...I am curious, since that "faimous" study from India posted 2 times on this forum used 1.5mm.

Thanks

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