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Reddit Thread - Masturbation and Hairloss

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Reddit Thread - Masturbation and Hairloss

Post  stresssucks on Sat Feb 22, 2014 12:25 am

I periodically search the nofap subreddit for comments about hair. There's a lot of anecdotal evidence of hair thickening when people go on nofap. A more interesting thread popped up when I searched this time:

http://www.reddit.com/r/NoFap/comments/1wvey9/my_hair_loss_experiment_since_30_days_ago_the/

A few people chime in about either slowed shedding or thickening (and there is more evidence if you search).

Someone in the thread posted a link to this forum post where a guy measures his DHT before and after nofap:
http://lowt.gy/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=2480



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Re: Reddit Thread - Masturbation and Hairloss

Post  Wlac89 on Sat Feb 22, 2014 12:52 am

I used to believe the same. I went on a 170 day nofap streek from last summer to this year's january, but to be honest, i didn't see any signs of improvement. Some report thickening of hair and even regrowth on yourbrainrebalanced for example, but that was not the case with me. For now i think it can only aggrevate the situation a bit, if you do it excessively (say more than 2-3 times a week). Just my two cents.

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Re: Reddit Thread - Masturbation and Hairloss

Post  Xenon on Sat Feb 22, 2014 1:02 am

Despite what the 'experts' say, that masturbating and hair loss is an old wives tale, I know otherwise. I have regrown hairs twice via abstinence, I have also had guys emailing me in astonishment to tell me that they reported new hairs growing after around 4 - 5 months of abstinence.

The only prob is, if you've been losing hair for years, then it might take over a decade to see anything even near significant. I mean, a few hairline hairs regrowing after 4 - 5 months is not exactly the magic bullet. Still, the fact that hairs do regrow after so many months must suggest that excessive masturbating somehow plays a role in hairline recession.

It may be because of increased DHT, perhaps because of mineral loss from excessive ejaculations? For me personally, I felt that my temples heated up to unnatural temperatures when I masturbated too much, and I intuitively felt like this was causing my hair loss. Whatever the exact cause, I just noticed that there is a definite link between hair line recession and masturbating... for some men, at least.

Additionally, I have read that PGD2 is involved in the erectile process, so there could be something in there to take into consideration.
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Re: Reddit Thread - Masturbation and Hairloss

Post  stresssucks on Sat Feb 22, 2014 9:28 am

Not really looking at it as the cure, but just a tool to perhaps enhance other aspects.

I have sex 2-5 times a week, so there's no reason I should need to masturbate. But I still do. Makes sex last longer! haha

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Re: Reddit Thread - Masturbation and Hairloss

Post  irfoc on Sat Feb 22, 2014 10:47 pm

When we talk about hair loss and other symptoms - sex brings the same effects as masturbation does (hormonal imbalance, loss of many precious nutritions with semen), so you should stop any sexual activity for a long time, if you want to see results. Many ancient civilizations and religions warned against masturbation (or rather loss of semen generally) and described different symptoms of chronic masturbation. Hair loss is one of them of course, but the list is long.
Most ppl who say "omg, that 'old wives tale' again" haven't even tried to abstain for 1-2 months to see the difference. For some ppl this may not solve the hair loss problem, but there sooo many other benefits from nosex/nofap.

I've abstained for a month so far and I'm going keep with it for a year at least, as I find sexual activity as the main cause of hair loss for me. Here is my topic:
immortalhair.forumandco.com/t9946-my-own-topical-your-opinions

We have a pretty interesting discussion about nettle root, DHT and SHBG and you're welcome to join of course!

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Re: Reddit Thread - Masturbation and Hairloss

Post  Xenon on Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:40 am

irfoc wrote:When we talk about hair loss and other symptoms - sex brings the same effects as masturbation does (hormonal imbalance, loss of many precious nutritions with semen), so you should stop any sexual activity for a long time, if you want to see results. Many ancient civilizations and religions warned against masturbation (or rather loss of semen generally) and described different symptoms of chronic masturbation.  Hair loss is one of them of course, but the list is long.
Most ppl who say "omg, that 'old wives tale' again" haven't even tried to abstain for 1-2 months to see the difference. For some ppl this may not solve the hair loss problem, but there sooo many other benefits from nosex/nofap.

I've abstained for a month so far and I'm going keep with it for a year at least, as I find sexual activity as the main cause of hair loss for me. Here is my topic:
immortalhair.forumandco.com/t9946-my-own-topical-your-opinions

We have a pretty interesting discussion about nettle root, DHT and SHBG and you're welcome to join of course!

The only problem is, there are many guys on here who are married / in committed relationships, so it's impractical for them to give up sex, unless they want their ladies to leave them.

From my experience, I never lost hair after sex, yet I did through masturbating. here is why i think there is a difference between the two:

When we masturbate, we are normally clothed at the time; we produce enormous amounts of body heat, which cannot escape from the body, so moves to the head.

When we have sex we are normally naked, so when body heat is produced, it can escape from all of the uncovered sweat pores on the body, thus alleviating the burden from the head.

Secondly, each time I ever had sex, i'd always go for a shower afterwards, but with masturbating, I did not. So, it could be, that sweat emissions, which linger on the scalp, causes an inflammatory reaction afterwards.

I know that sounds relatively simplistic, but from my own perspective, sweat emissions always seemed to cause the scalp to sting (inflammation), so there is definitely a link there IMO.

This, of course, isn't the case for everyone, but some have scalp's with a sensitivity to body heat / sweat. This is linked to a condition called 'cholinergic urticaria'.

ETA: during summer time and when my scalp sweats, i don't actually recall any inflammation, so this may be a metabolic issue, in being that metabolic byproducts in sweat, such as lactic acid, may be causing an inflammatory response.

Frequent ejaculation associated free radical and lactic acid accumulation cause noninfectious inflammation and muscle dysfunction: a potential mechanism for symptoms in Chronic Prostatitis/Chronic Pelvic Pain Syndrome.

"During male ejaculation, the pelvic muscles undergo coordinated intense contraction to expel the semen out of the male genital tract, a process associated with locally increased levels of lactic acid and free radicals as byproducts. In this regards, repetitive sexual activities with frequent ejaculation would impede the drainage and cause accumulation of these byproducts in the pelvic region, triggering consequent local pathophysiological changes such as edema, venous dilation and muscular malfunction, which further leads to common complaints in CP/CPPS patients such as lower urinary tract symptoms, pelvic discomfort and pain.

RATIONALE:
Large cohort studies have revealed that frequent ejaculation is associated with higher risk of prostatitis, especially in young men. Also, clear evidences from sports medical research has shown that intense muscular contraction will lead to locally increased production of free radicals and lactic acid. Therefore, the pelvic muscles during ejaculation would induce substantial increase of these byproducts, which if not cleared effectively, could trigger series of local cellular/tissue damages resulting in inflammation [and much of this inflammatory lactic acid is released from the scalp], muscular fatigue and dysfunction. If our hypothesis were validated, it could be suggested that at least in some patients, the treatment of CP/CPPS could be tuned as dealing with post-sports recovery, such as hot bath to promote local blood circulation and free radical scavenger drugs such as vitamin C and E to neutralize free radicals."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19435656

^^This may also provide a clue as to why many body builders seem to lose hair. It could be that lactic acid emissions in sweat linger on the scalp and inflame it.
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Re: Reddit Thread - Masturbation and Hairloss

Post  stresssucks on Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:12 am

If you give up sex to save your hair there is something wrong with you IMO. Don't take the joy out of life for a few strands of hair.

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Re: Reddit Thread - Masturbation and Hairloss

Post  irfoc on Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:50 am

stresssucks wrote:If you give up sex to save your hair there is something wrong with you IMO. Don't take the joy out of life for a few strands of hair.

When you name it so, that's just a manipulation.
"for a few strands of hair" - there are millions of other, maybe even important reasons to abstain. I wrote about that in my post. You see, for me it's like that I enjoy life more, when I abstain, because I have more energy, I'm in a lot better mood, I experience many things different, have a clear mind, better memory etc. There are THOUSANDS of similar opinions on the net.
And I haven't said that I'll abstain till I die...

I'm not going to encourage everybody to start celibacy to the end of their lives. Just verify the believe "frequent sex/masturbation is completely ok" by yourself and don't believe ppl who say such things and fap every day for last 10 years at the same time...

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Re: Reddit Thread - Masturbation and Hairloss

Post  stresssucks on Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:00 am

giving up masturbation seems like a good idea.

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Re: Reddit Thread - Masturbation and Hairloss

Post  NYJets on Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:46 am

It seems a lot of Males show health benefits from abstaining. However, abstaining is not addressing the culprit if you will.

In other words, while some guys may be affected and others won't be it has to due with their internal makeup/health. The goal is to be able to ejaculate while not causing inflammation.
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Re: Reddit Thread - Masturbation and Hairloss

Post  irfoc on Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:11 pm

Firstly, I want to ask about something, because not everyone may read the whole message Smile
Has anyone found any info showing hormonal differences in body after a sexual activity with an orgasm and a sexual activity without an orgasm?



NYJets wrote:It seems a lot of Males show health benefits from abstaining. However, abstaining is not addressing the culprit if you will.

In other words, while some guys may be affected and others won't be it has to due with their internal makeup/health. The goal is to be able to ejaculate while not causing inflammation.


I'd say that almost all men experience fatigue, problems with concentration, anxiety and lethargy because of frequent ejaculation, but not all of them experience hair loss (but still it's a large percentage!) - their hair is not so sensitive to DHT/their body produce less DHT.



  • Some interesting info:

http://www.muscleprodigy.com/does-masturbation-affect-testosterone-arcl-2785.html

One study completed in Vienna in 1998 by the Ludwig Boltzmann Institute for urban Ethology found that both men and women experienced increased testosterone levels simply by watching pornographic movies for 15 minutes. Men increased their levels by 100% while women experienced an 80% increase in testosterone levels.

In 2003, Chinese researchers shed light on how serum testosterone levels were affected by frequent ejaculation. The study utilized 28 male volunteers who were asked to abstain from ejaculation for a week. Serum testosterone levels were monitored throughout the week-long period and showed no impact during the first 6 days. However, on the seventh day, the levels of serum testosterone in all participants spiked to 145.7% from the baseline readings. Then, on the eighth day, those levels started rapidly declining.



  • And some guys addicted to masturbation write about their experiences with "masturbation without ejaculation". I quoted the most interesting parts below:

http://yourbrainonporn.com/what-if-i-use-porn-without-orgasm

If you are edging with porn you are combining naturally high dopamine levels of masturbation with the dopamine raising abilities of 1) exciting, novel visuals 2) searching the net for porn 3) finding surprising or shocking genres. Edging can keep dopamine levels elevated for hours, and train the brain to require constant visual stimulation, rapid-fire novelty, clicking from scene to scene, and your own hand

By the way, many who end up with porn-induced ED have a history of edging to porn. As one guy said,

Is edging bad?

Yes, in fact it's worse. The reason is simple: instead of achieving orgasm and ending it, you train your brain to be bathing in chemicals for hours. It's the worst thing you can do, bar none. The worst. If you began and realise what you are doing in time, stop or rush to the end. Whatever you do, don't keep the pace. Most of us weren't addicted to PMO, but rather to PEO.

Hi guys, just a little update here. I've been over at nofap and have managed to not fap since January 3rd. For the first month of nofap I looked at no porn at all. The improvements I was were unreal. More confidence, deeper voice, bigger dick (no joke). The second month in I started looking at bikini pics and softcore playboy like pictures. This still seemed ok but I started noticing that I didn't want to go out of the house as much, and social anxiety started to increase again, just from bikini pics, what the fuck. I started to dive a little deeper last week and went to an old favorite porn site where I watched about 10 minutes of video. The dopamine rush was unreal. Heart pounding, shakiness, but I didn't fap. The past week after watching that shit has been a disaster. Watching netflix all day, not working out, blah. So anyway here I am, pornfree 5 days, nofap 90 something. No more porn for me, its not the jerking off, its the porn. Free yourself.

A good urologist I consulted years ago, told me that edging is so bad because the semen returns and might "cristalize" in our prostate and that is why the pain and the blue balls, he told me that he was not accepted in the urology association because he said that masturbation can be the cause of many problems in the prostate, the other doctors told him that if men masturbate more frequently they will have more clients. Be careful, dude!!!!!! Btwm this doctor also told me that 10 years ago 90% of his patients were over 60 and now he is helping people as young as 16, many youngers are going to consult him. He blamed masturbation, porn and hormones, he has a treatment of needles to inject vital nutrients in the nerves of the penis, it is like viagra but even better, you feel like a bull.

I'm actually studying neuroscience in graduate school, and one of the first things you'll learn about the reward system is that the dopamine actually floods the system in anticipation of the reward - not after the reward itself. So from a neurobiological perspective, edging for 15 minutes is much worse than just rubbing one out in a few minutes. If you think about it honestly, what you're addicted to is the PM, not the O.

So I did nofap before for 63 days but would edge and even look at porn once in awhile. I didn't see to many results after the first week as my brain got used to not cumming and just replaced PMO with PM and I was basically back to my old self. I decided to try again without looking at any porn or edging at all. It was so much harder at first but SO much more rewarding. The pride I felt for doing it was great and I had confidence and energy boosts and all that jazz. And then after a week something happened. I started getting attention from so many girls. Girls I am friends with say there is something difference about me, they are flirtier and two have even tried to hook up with me. I can see girls staring at me, smiling at me and checking me out.



  • A guy who reported regrowth after 3-4 months of abstaining:

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1758872/pg1

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Re: Reddit Thread - Masturbation and Hairloss

Post  Xenon on Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:45 am

And then after a week something happened. I started getting attention from so many girls. Girls I am friends with say there is something difference about me, they are flirtier and two have even tried to hook up with me. I can see girls staring at me, smiling at me and checking me out.

Guys who abstain email me to tell me the same thing all the time. It's weird. I'm wondering if abstinence causes men to secrete pheromones which attract females, maybe due to increased testosterone?

A guy who reported regrowth after 3-4 months of abstaining:

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1758872/pg1

^^P.S. that guy is me. I created that thread.  The info is quite limited and dated in comparison to what I have since learned. For instance, the DHT clogging theory is something I don't necessarily hold to be true anymore. I'd read many things about DHT clogging follicles, so I believed what the experts said. Now, two or three years on I'm receiving emails daily from guys who are of the belief that DHT clogs follicles, so I pretty much regret creating that thread as some of the info is inaccurate.

When I started noticing regrowth, I assumed that the cells where being cleared of DHT and follicles could once again produce hair. Again, IDK if I hold that to be true anymore, because if this was so, then sweat glands and sebaceous glands would not continue to function normally (they in fact produce more sebum and sweat). Both of those glands contain more DHT receptors than the follicles, so the issue is likely much more complex than the dated clogging theory.
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Re: Reddit Thread - Masturbation and Hairloss

Post  Wlac89 on Mon Feb 24, 2014 3:59 am

LOL this godlikeproductionsis thread was the one that inspired me to do my 170 day nofap streek... didn't work for me, sadly. I even emailed you once, Xenon, where you said that abstinence can cause feminization, so it could not hurt to ejaculate every once in a while.

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Re: Reddit Thread - Masturbation and Hairloss

Post  Xenon on Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:23 am

Wlac89 wrote:LOL this godlikeproductionsis thread was the one that inspired me to do my 170 day nofap streek... didn't work for me, sadly. I even emailed you once, Xenon, where you said that abstinence can cause feminization, so it could not hurt to ejaculate every once in a while.

Yeh, it seems to work for some but not others, unless of course it takes longer for someone who has been bald longer. When I tried it second time around, it actually took longer to see results (by about another two months).

Regarding feminization; many guys on long term use of finasteride seem to develop very feminine skin, which is apparently caused by severe drop in DHT levels. So, I therefore assumed that this may also be a possible side effect of prolonged abstinence. I emailed other guys to watch out for any possible side effects, such as feminized skin or prostate problems.

And on that note: fin or dut doesn't seem to work for all men either, so this would suggest that DHT isn't the only thing contributing to MPB, although likely plays a significant role in the majority of the cases.
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Re: Reddit Thread - Masturbation and Hairloss

Post  Wlac89 on Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:27 am

Only thing i noticed during my abstinence was that my facial hair grew waaay slower. Before the abstinence period, i had to shave once a week , but during that time i only had to shave once in two weeks time. I'm not bald anyways, i'm about nw 4, 24 yo, receding since 16-17.

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Re: Reddit Thread - Masturbation and Hairloss

Post  Xenon on Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:07 am

Wlac89 wrote:Only thing i noticed during my abstinence was that my facial hair grew waaay slower. Before the abstinence period, i had to shave once a week , but during that time i only had to shave once in two weeks time. I'm not bald anyways, i'm about nw 4, 24 yo, receding since 16-17.

Yeh, this would indicate that DHT levels had lowered. You abstained for around 6 - 7 months... some guys on fin and dut only report regrowth after around 12 - 18 months, so it may have just taken you longer to regrow hair. However, I can understand why many people would think that such a venture just isn't worth it, especially taking into account the fact that we just don't know what the long term effects of abstinence will be... perhaps prostate issues, feminization, loss of body / facial hair, etc. But from my experience (and others) excess masturbation can cause hair loss, lethargy, depression, etc.
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Re: Reddit Thread - Masturbation and Hairloss

Post  Nuuu_Dx on Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:34 pm

Funny you should mention 'clogging'.

I'm one who experiences regrowth because of abstinence and I actually first noticed the regrowth when I rubbed in the bald 'alcove' above the temple. When I rubbed I felt these small 'grit' type things come off my scalp which caused me to look further and notice the regrowth. So maybe it's not dnt clogging the pores but could be something else. I also got a couple of pimples round the area of regrowth.

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Re: Reddit Thread - Masturbation and Hairloss

Post  Xenon on Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:22 pm

When I rubbed I felt these small 'grit' type things come off my scalp

I've occasionally noticed some grit like substance attached to the nape of hair which have occasionally fallen out. I think it might be hardened sebum which builds up at the follicle root. DHT causes an increase in scalp sebum; propionic bacteria / p,acnes reside deep within the follicle and they feed on sebum; their metabolic byproducts can cause inflammation of the hair producing matrix cells and follicle wall.

At one time I thought that my scalp was tight because my temples were very shiny in comparison to other areas of skin (this shininess only correlated to the very areas where my hair once grew). When I wiped the skin with some tissue the shininess immediately went away and the skin texture looked normal like elsewhere. However, a few minutes later, the sebum started to pour out of the pores with a vengeance and the skin became greasy and shiny again. I also remember if I had my temples resting against the window of a train that it would always leave a greasy residue on the surface.

I don't think that p.acnes are entirely responsible for hair loss, but I'd definitely say that they play their part.
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Re: Reddit Thread - Masturbation and Hairloss

Post  stresssucks on Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:49 am

If you search on reddit's nofap there are tons of people talking about thickening and regrowing hair. Couple of comments from the past 10 days:


http://www.reddit.com/r/NoFap/comments/20ulqm/revolutionary_result_of_the_30_day_abstinence_and/
http://www.reddit.com/r/NoFap/comments/20hzds/fapping_causes_balding/
http://www.reddit.com/r/NoFap/comments/20b8q0/cold_shower_hair_loss_remedy/
http://www.reddit.com/r/NoFap/comments/209a9w/nofap_hairline_experiment/

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Re: Reddit Thread - Masturbation and Hairloss

Post  stresssucks on Mon Mar 31, 2014 12:38 am

http://www.reddit.com/r/NoFap/comments/21mziy/is_there_a_link_between_hair_loss_and_fapping/
"[–]_TheLoneWanderer 2 points 1 day ago
I'd say so. My hair has been thinning since I was 16, around about the time I got REALLY into porn and fapping and all that. I get these little itches around the hairline and crown where my hair is miniturizing and I've noticed that when I abstain the itch goes away completely and very slowly my hair seems to be coming back.
I haven't been able to build up a really big streak but my crown is fuller than it used to be before I ever tried nofap. It's not a placebo either, because people that know me (and who are unaware of any nofap business) have commented on it."

http://www.reddit.com/r/NoFap/comments/21a2f4/does_not_masturbating_help_regrow_hair_im/
"[–]big_greg6 days 1 point 5 days ago
I feel that my hair loss has slowed significantly since ive started getting repeated streaks of 4 to 6 days, before then i suffered a noticably larger amount of hair loss. not sure why"

http://www.reddit.com/r/NoFap/comments/218gra/thank_you_i_am_transformed_so_goodbye_for_a_month/
" I have more New Hairs on my head."



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Re: Reddit Thread - Masturbation and Hairloss

Post  sanderson on Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:05 am

Data for 100 ml semen
Calcium (mg) 27.6
Chloride (mg) 142
Citrate (mg) 528
Fructose (mg) 272
Glucose (mg) 102 Lactic acid (g) 62
Magnesium (mg) 11 Potassium (mg) 109
Protein (g) 5.04
Sodium (mg) 300 Urea (g) 45 Zinc (mg) 16.5
(taken from wikipedia)
Buffering capacity (β) 25 Osmolarity (mOsm) 354 pH 7.7 Viscosity (cP) 3–7 Volume (mL) 3.4
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Re: Reddit Thread - Masturbation and Hairloss

Post  stresssucks on Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:51 am

What does the buffering capacity/PH stuff mean?

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Re: Reddit Thread - Masturbation and Hairloss

Post  sanderson on Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:55 pm

stresssucks wrote:What does the buffering capacity/PH stuff mean?

no idea man. i grabbed this from reddit. i had no idea the calcium content was so high though. i'm fairly certain in my own situation with fin effects there are food absorption issues and other random food issues.. many fin users reported bone density loss.. i'm wondering if it's from ejaculating all their calcium out and then not being able to absorb as well anything else.. i'm all in for 100 days no fap at this point because my body seriously needs a recharge. ive noticed everytime i do this for at least a week.. itching goes away completely no matter what i eat. i honestly have no idea what is happening.. i don't think it's a DHT rush.. it's something else.
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Re: Reddit Thread - Masturbation and Hairloss

Post  sanderson on Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:51 am

is there an accurate test for Zinc and Copper? i'm wondering if low dietary zinc and/or low dietary copper + semen release (which releases a lot of zinc) can contribute and/or make a copper/zinc problem worse? i always lose hair post orgasm and i always feel 10x worse post orgasm.

it's really night and day with me to say that masturbation causes hair loss, it's 100% true and i've found it to be the main factor in me losing hair and overall just feeling bad and having no libido. like honestly, i have no doubt that it is happening and it's a major cause factor. i just don't understand what is happening.

for example.. i've had where i've started masturbating, but not had semen release, i've felt my hair getting itchy, so the nutrients are still in my body, but are they being stored somewhere before orgasm happens?

i'm going to try buying foods that are high in those areas that are found in semen and see if that makes any difference in feeling better overall. if people are masturbating 1x/day.. which i think is average honestly, and you are not getting daily requirement of calcium or zinc.. that could cause problems in the long term.... it looks like beef has zinc in it, but is it enough to cover if you are ejaculating every day?

it looks like average semen volume is 1ml-6ml, so that is amplified quite a big above.. but over time.. who knows?

i read somewhere that it takes 3 months of no ejaculation and eating beef every single day to refill your body with the proper nutrients it needs to fill the gap from semen loss.

is this possible.. ?  seems pretty logical to me.....
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Re: Reddit Thread - Masturbation and Hairloss

Post  yup on Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:05 am

I masturbated at day 86 of my nofap streak and now i am on 110 days.
So i did it once in 110 days.

Hair loss is non existant to be honest.

What was interesting is that when i fapped afterwards i was so tired
that i slept for an hour (it was like my spirit was so exhausted,in my sleep i felt
like i was gonna go out of my body) and i was attracting other type of people.

Like attracts like.Period.

When i see people in the gym that cant complete gym programs feeling that
their legs are so weak i am sure that the same day they fapped or had sex.

Nofap is great. And to the people that say fapping is good for the forever alone
i say that by the time they use the word''forever alone'' they lost it.
Its all about self putting limitations.

Nofap is a great way to gain self confidence and accomplish more things.

yup

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