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good news diffuse thinneres! regimen for diffuse hairloss that i know will work for the majority!

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Re: good news diffuse thinneres! regimen for diffuse hairloss that i know will work for the majority!

Post  danthethinningman on Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:13 pm

-70 mg biotin
-1 g riboflavin
-500mg niacin
-50mg zinc gluconate
-20mg manganese

I also occasionally supplement inositol, magnesium oil and methyl b12. I'm not even sure b12 does anything for me lol.

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Re: good news diffuse thinneres! regimen for diffuse hairloss that i know will work for the majority!

Post  danthethinningman on Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:18 pm

Also forgot to mention pantethine 600 mg

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Re: good news diffuse thinneres! regimen for diffuse hairloss that i know will work for the majority!

Post  AS54 on Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:38 pm

Thanks, Dan.

My god though, your piss must look radioactive.

I haven't been able to find any indications these doses are toxic. Riboflavin, for example was given at doses of 10 g/kg to rats with no toxicity, so long as it was orally administered. Biotin, too showed no adverse effects even up to doses of 200 mg daily. However, I did see they mentioned one case report of an elderly woman (76 yrs) who died form an inflammatory reaction from taking 300 mg pantothenic acid and 10 mg biotin daily for two months. Of course, there were probably other relevant factors but something to consider. Watch for that chest pain! But apparently our guts are pretty intelligent and don't allow absorption past toxic limits in most cases.

So the only other information that might be pertinent would be measurements for mean max absorption orally. After all, if we are only absorbing a certain fraction of these large doses, then we could be pissing money down the drain if its over and above. I suppose a divided dose - say, twice daily - might have a different effect.

And how aren't you flushing terribly on that level of niacin? I took 100 mg daily for a couple of days at one point and flushed for hours each time. I'm talking my entire upper body being cherry red.
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Re: good news diffuse thinneres! regimen for diffuse hairloss that i know will work for the majority!

Post  danthethinningman on Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:26 pm

Well biotin has a very high absorption rate and you can easily find a study on that finding. As for my piss it looks gold and that is attributed to riboflavin obv. I don't worry much about money going down the drain though since I have tested different doses and had yielded more results the higher I go. As for the flush well I still get it but I usually lasts like 20 minutes and sometimes I don't even get it at all. I can't seem to pin point why that is.

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Re: good news diffuse thinneres! regimen for diffuse hairloss that i know will work for the majority!

Post  Aeons7 on Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:35 pm

what do you guys mean by "flush"

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Re: good news diffuse thinneres! regimen for diffuse hairloss that i know will work for the majority!

Post  danthethinningman on Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:39 pm

It's when your face heats up and blushes along with other parts of your body

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Re: good news diffuse thinneres! regimen for diffuse hairloss that i know will work for the majority!

Post  Aeons7 on Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:51 pm

oh in that case I ONLY FLUSH AROUND GIRLS :3

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Re: good news diffuse thinneres! regimen for diffuse hairloss that i know will work for the majority!

Post  AS54 on Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:23 pm

Thanks again for the info, Dan. I'll probably be experimenting with a regimen soon.

Aeons, you had that joke canned. You were waiting to use it haha.

Dan is lucky regarding the flush. I took 100 mg of niacin and I'm not shitting you, I looked like a lobster. I happened to be at class that day and I remember all of the looks I was getting. Oddly enough that would normally bother me but it didn't. I just looked and said, "Niacin....what up".

[I didn't actually say that]

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Re: good news diffuse thinneres! regimen for diffuse hairloss that i know will work for the majority!

Post  CausticSymmetry on Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:14 pm

In my 20 years of experience with researching hair loss, I have come to realize that nothing on a singular level works for everyone.

Nevertheless these unusual doses are worth investigating. I made a post on B2 recently showing its effects on CRF.
That being said, the B-complex in general is important. One month is rapid recovery.

I take enough B2 as part of a complex that contains both active and "non-active" forms, and of course my urine looks "radioactive also," which is totally harmless.

My personal experience shows that MPB (not just diffuse) is multifaceted. I think hair loss is just as difficult to treat
as cancer in most MPB and has different cause/origins of inflammation.

I would be cautious about zinc in amounts exceeding 15 mg per day long term. Also the manganese I think is also a bit high for long term.

Nevertheless I will continue to follow with interest.

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Re: good news diffuse thinneres! regimen for diffuse hairloss that i know will work for the majority!

Post  Beebrox on Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:08 pm

Flushing will improve with time. I can handle 250mg with out  a flush, but as little as 50 mg caused a flush at the beginning.

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Re: good news diffuse thinneres! regimen for diffuse hairloss that i know will work for the majority!

Post  theseeker86 on Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:58 pm

CausticSymmetry wrote:

I would be cautious about zinc in amounts exceeding 15 mg per day long term. Also the manganese I think is also a bit high for long term.

Can there be severe side effects from taking more then 15mg of zinc long term?

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Re: good news diffuse thinneres! regimen for diffuse hairloss that i know will work for the majority!

Post  AS54 on Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:06 am

CS,

Is your advice regarding the zinc primarily due to the copper issue or are there other reasons going on there?
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Re: good news diffuse thinneres! regimen for diffuse hairloss that i know will work for the majority!

Post  danthethinningman on Wed Mar 05, 2014 3:58 am

CS- I find I tolerate zinc much better then I used to recently. You think zinc is one of those minerals one needs to take frequently to benifit?

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Re: good news diffuse thinneres! regimen for diffuse hairloss that i know will work for the majority!

Post  danthethinningman on Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:00 am

AS54 wrote:Thanks again for the info, Dan. I'll probably be experimenting with a regimen soon.

Aeons, you had that joke canned. You were waiting to use it haha.

Dan is lucky regarding the flush. I took 100 mg of niacin and I'm not shitting you, I looked like a lobster. I happened to be at class that day and I remember all of the looks I was getting. Oddly enough that would normally bother me but it didn't. I just looked and said, "Niacin....what up".

[I didn't actually say that]

 Embarassed 
should have told them you ate a habanero pepper lol

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Re: good news diffuse thinneres! regimen for diffuse hairloss that i know will work for the majority!

Post  Xenon on Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:29 am

Dan, it's interesting that you said that you started losing most of your hair when on a low carb diet, combined with intense cardio, as this also happened to a friend of mine. He had very thick healthy hair, started going to the gym + low carb diet, then his hair began thinning very rapidly.

The same thing has also happened to me in the past, and I believe that a great deal of it is related to acidosis, due to increased ketoacids in the blood. Also, intense cardio causes the mitochondria to produce more carbon dioxide, which turns into carbonic acids if not adequately expelled from the lungs / kidneys.

You said that you began supplementing with calcium and magnesium... both help to buffer these acids and restore pH, otherwise the body will begin leeching calcium from the bones in order to neutralze the acids.

What I personally noticed was, if I sweated heavily during heavy cardio / strength training, then the sweat from my temples would sting, but when I wiped the sweat away, I noticed that the stinging / inflammation would go away. So I therefore deduced that there must have been a metabolic byproduct in the sweat which was causing the inflammation. initially I thought that this may have been high sodium content, but I can sweat all day on a hot summer's day and I wont suffer from inflammation, so IMO this must be lactic acid from sweat, as it only seemed to occur from exercising.

I don't know why, but lactic acid seems to gather in scalp tissue quite heavily, perhaps because we release so much body heat from the scalp during exercise, and therefore lactic acid.

Since keeping fit for the past few months I have noticed that I hardly sweat from my scalp anymore, instead I sweat mainly from my back. So, I no longer experience inflammation in my scalp anymore, yet my back has started to become really itchy. This, however, is easily remdied by a shower.

I'd also like to point out that my hair has very recently started to become thicker... no idea why, maybe it has something to do with regular exercise and ecause I gave up smoking.
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Re: good news diffuse thinneres! regimen for diffuse hairloss that i know will work for the majority!

Post  danthethinningman on Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:43 am

Xenon the sweat from the temples is identical of what I had! Also had a weird kid of sweat if you kno what I mean, that greasy kind of sweat. After dosing high on biotin my sweat is a lot more water wich is a good thing. The biotin also banished the stingy temple feeling completely. I think the connection between biotin and acidosis is very strong cause I'd like to mention I burp and fart way more then I used to and this has to be attributed to more CO2 production. Biotin reduces your chances of producing too much lactic acid wich in my exp is so true. Two months ago I was already fatigued after 20 push ups, now I can reach over 40 straitht and my muscles recover so much faster its incredible.

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Re: good news diffuse thinneres! regimen for diffuse hairloss that i know will work for the majority!

Post  Xenon on Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:15 am

danthethinningman wrote:Xenon the sweat from the temples is identical of what I had! Also had a weird kid of sweat if you kno what I mean, that greasy kind of sweat. After dosing high on biotin my sweat is a lot more water wich is a good thing. The biotin also banished the stingy temple feeling completely. I think the connection between biotin and acidosis is very strong cause I'd like to mention I burp and fart way more then I used to and this has to be attributed to more CO2 production. Biotin reduces your chances of producing too much lactic acid wich in my exp is so true. Two months ago I was already fatigued after 20 push ups, now I can reach over 40 straitht and my muscles recover so much faster its incredible.

Well, seeing as you have had some good success with biotin and other supps, I think I'll try it out. I have to admit, I never bother with vitamins or minerals, and this may well be the thing that is holding me back. I once supplemented with zinc many years ago and I was stunned by how healthy it made my hair, but I think that I took too much of the stuff, as I started feeling really nauseous, not to mention getting terrible cramp pains in my calf muscles.

The greasy sweat you spoke of is normally secreted from sweat glands called apocrine glands. I've never been able to find out if these apocrine glands exist in the scalp, as there seems to be so much conflicting info on the net. The increased greasiness may also have been increased sebum mixed with sweat. Many of us on here are of the opinion that increased sebum breeds p.acnes which secrete inflammatory metabolic byproducts within the hair producing matrix cells. Sometimes, when a hair has fallen out, I have noticed a squalene like substance attached to the nape (this substance is also sometimes hard like a grain of salt), so I think that this is a build up of sebum at the root of the follicle.

Sweat and sebum glands in balding men contain higher numbers of DHT receptors, so I'd take it that this would lead to higher p.acne proliferation and lactic acid build up. In fact, men sweat and produce more sebum on average than women, so I think that there is definitely a hormonal connection here.
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Re: good news diffuse thinneres! regimen for diffuse hairloss that i know will work for the majority!

Post  danthethinningman on Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:55 am

It's interesting that masturbation increases conversion of test to dht. After I would masturbation i would itch at the temples. Now after doing my regimen I madturbate frequently and never itch at the temps anymore.

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Re: good news diffuse thinneres! regimen for diffuse hairloss that i know will work for the majority!

Post  Beebrox on Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:00 am

Biotin have also some roles in detoxification with it's sulfur content. Are you considering yourself metal toxic, Dan?

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Re: good news diffuse thinneres! regimen for diffuse hairloss that i know will work for the majority!

Post  danthethinningman on Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:13 am

Yea I have but haven't really addressed it. I think to maximize detoxification one needs to maximize sulfur metabolism using molybdenum, methyl b12, msm and b6. Do you think my b6 issue in the past might be a molybdenum deficiency?

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Re: good news diffuse thinneres! regimen for diffuse hairloss that i know will work for the majority!

Post  Xenon on Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:20 am

danthethinningman wrote:It's interesting that masturbation increases conversion of test to dht. After I would masturbation i would itch at the temples. Now after doing my regimen I madturbate frequently and never itch at the temps anymore.

Yes, it is interesting. I'd, in fact, attribute most of my hair line recession to masturbating excessively from my early teens and onwards. I don't know if you're familiar with any of my posts or other board members regarding the masturbation / hairloss connection, but I experimented with abstinence twice and actually noticed regrowth around the six month mark. other men have emailed me to tell me the same thing, but others were'nt so successful.

Although I've studied this subject quite in depth, I don't know exactly why it causes hairloss in some men, but not others. Perhaps DHT conversion; lactic acid accumulation when stomach muscles contract during ejaculation (this was a theory proposed through an ncbi study); PGD2 increase, mineral loss, prolactin increase, etc, etc.

I also considered the possibility of increased DHT causing androgenic hairs to utilize more protein to form keratin, thereby leaving scalp follicles deficient. I mean, beard hair is a continuous anagen phase, DHT stimulates it's growth, so it must utilize lots of keratin. A board member told me last week, that when he stopped masturbating he noticed his beard hair growing very slowly, so this is probably caused by a drop in DHT. Many dut users also report thinner androgenic hair when their scalp hair thickens, so maybe there is a link here, and this may be due to liver function and protein synthesis.

It is an extremely complicated issue.

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Re: good news diffuse thinneres! regimen for diffuse hairloss that i know will work for the majority!

Post  danthethinningman on Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:25 am

Btw beebrox I have ala on hand but have heard stories of it causeing hair loss in some, how is that possible? I know biotin shares the same carrier as ala and have a similar molecular structure. Any insight?

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Re: good news diffuse thinneres! regimen for diffuse hairloss that i know will work for the majority!

Post  Beebrox on Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:32 am

danthethinningman wrote:Yea I have but haven't really addressed it. I think to maximize detoxification one needs to maximize sulfur metabolism using molybdenum, methyl b12, msm and b6. Do you think my b6 issue in the past might be a molybdenum deficiency?

It sounds reasonable, but who knows. Having candida or some other known (yeast) pathogenic manifestations? Eczema, other forms of dermatitis, nail/groin infections, tons of dandruff?

Best to tell it is to try and see what it does for you with plenty of aminos, organic sulfur and of course b6 with cofactors. To go safe i would also have a bottle of b12, some folate and SAMe, in case you hit the wall. And a quality b complex (non synthetic). Life is not ideal, neather is the budget, so yeah i do think molydbenum is worth trying based on your description. Specially if there are yeast infections or pure dental health. How old, any grey hair?

I hope biotin is a new (old) hairloss hit, to be honest.Smile

ALA is my miracle, but it didnt ''upregualte'' things right for me at the longer run. I started to think i am retoxificating myself, rather than detoxificating. Of course my regimen was not perfect, i probably depleted some b vitamins more while on ALA regimen. But yes, it helped stop my hairloss. Also mental clarity (in the zone thing) it have me was very good. I strongly recommend ALA if there is no amalgam fillings, and if taken with adequate amount of other B vitamins, while focusing on sulfur pathways the way you suggest...

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Re: good news diffuse thinneres! regimen for diffuse hairloss that i know will work for the majority!

Post  danthethinningman on Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:38 am

The reason abstaining helps is because it allows the body to retain zinc, magnesium and b6 along with inositol. In my experience masturbation is not enough if you have diffuse thinnin, but If you strictly have a receded hairline at the front you sure as hell will slow down the progression with ejaculating less often. Organism stimulates the use of adrenaline to add on along with atp as you can easily feel a depletion of atp after orgasm. You usually feel tired. I'm woundering if what I need left after all this improvement to see regrowth at the temples is to abstain once again. How's it you and me go at it for a month starting today? I just need motivation but Ikno I can accomplish it since its not my first time.


Last edited by danthethinningman on Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:57 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: good news diffuse thinneres! regimen for diffuse hairloss that i know will work for the majority!

Post  danthethinningman on Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:51 am

Beebrox wrote:
danthethinningman wrote:Yea I have but haven't really addressed it. I think to maximize detoxification one needs to maximize sulfur metabolism using molybdenum, methyl b12, msm and b6. Do you think my b6 issue in the past might be a molybdenum deficiency?

It sounds reasonable, but who knows. Having candida or some other known (yeast) pathogenic manifestations? Eczema, other forms of dermatitis, nail/groin infections, tons of dandruff?

Best to tell it is to try and see what it does for you with plenty of aminos, organic sulfur and of course b6 with cofactors. To go safe i would also have a bottle of b12, some folate and SAMe, in case you hit the wall. And a quality b complex (non synthetic). Life is not ideal, neather is the budget, so yeah i do think molydbenum is worth trying based on your description. Specially if there are yeast infections or pure dental health. How old, any grey hair?

I hope biotin is a new (old) hairloss hit, to be honest.Smile

ALA is my miracle, but it didnt ''upregualte'' things right for me at the longer run. I started to think i am retoxificating myself, rather than detoxificating. Of course my regimen was not perfect, i probably depleted some b vitamins more while on ALA regimen. But yes, it helped stop my hairloss. Also mental clarity (in the zone thing) it have me was very good. I strongly recommend ALA if there is no amalgam fillings, and if taken with adequate amount of other B vitamins, while focusing on sulfur pathways the way you suggest...
I am 22 but no grays, mostly just lighter hair now it used to be black as heck. As for all methylation supplements, I have all of them on hand it's just the methyl folate gives me blood pressure issues, but as of late when ever I try it I feel nothing. As for b6 it gives me a sting in my temples and eyebrows but I haven't tried it lately. The b6 is what interests me the most but why the hell does it make hair loss worse in some? I'm so reluctant to try the b6 but will give it a shot with molybdenum soon. I'm not even sure I need it.

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